Author Topic: The first debate (Read 4911 times)

Monkeyleg · « **on:** September 26, 2008, 06:43:28 PM »

I was hoping McCain would have a soundbite that put Obama in his place. Didn't see it, though. McCain did keep hammering at Obama, though, and kept Obama off balance.

Obama's constant interruptions were really annoying. I'm hoping they annoyed the undecideds as well.

It was surprising that McCain didn't call Obama on the lie that OB said he would meet with leaders of Iran, North Korea and other rogue nations without preconditions. Obama lied about that one all night, trying to parse "preconditions" with "preparations."

My bet is that this didn't change anything poll-wise, which means that Obama will still be in the lead.

ArmedBear · « **Reply #1 on:** September 26, 2008, 06:49:12 PM »

Quote

The next president of the United States is not going to have to decide whether we should have gone into Iraq. Hell have to decide how we leave, when we leave and what we leave behind &

TommyGunn · « **Reply #2 on:** September 26, 2008, 06:56:47 PM »

Obama's lead is narrow and wavering ... McCain was actually in the lead a week back.
These daily tracking polls are meaningless and silly.
Having said that I am dubious of there being any change as a result of this horse and pony show.

Gowen · « **Reply #3 on:** September 26, 2008, 07:22:51 PM »

Quote from: TommyGunn on September 26, 2008, 05:56:47 PM

Obama's lead is narrow and wavering ... McCain was actually in the lead a week back.
These daily tracking polls are meaningless and silly.
Having said that I am dubious of there being any change as a result of this horse and pony show.

In a sad way, blacks poll better than they show on election day. People will say they will vote for a black, so as not to appear racist, then will vote for the white guy in the voting booth.

don · « **Reply #4 on:** September 26, 2008, 07:24:34 PM »

I would have to score the debate a tie. McCain's delivery was better, but Obama had the intellectual advantage. Obama needs to speak with more "fire in the belly". Had he done so, I think he would have wiped up McCain. For the average Joe Six-pack logic and intellect mean little. Sound bites and emotion will win over logic 99% of the time. There were no knock out punches by either side. McCain's closing was better than Obama's.

Uncle Bubba · « **Reply #5 on:** September 26, 2008, 07:50:06 PM »

I agree with don's assessment but not his conclusions.

Obama appeared to have the intellectual advantage, but he ain't an intellectual. To the Canon Generation ("Image Is Everything"), though, I'm sure he seemed so. (I apologize if that last appears to be pointed at you, don. It isn't.)

McCain did hold Obama's feet to the fire of his "...with no preconditions..." statement. Obama tried to dance his way around that one but it wasn't a nifty enough step.

Did anyone else's brain come to attention and scream "What!?" when Lehrer asked of both candidates how each would handle a certain situation "...when you rule the country as President." I almost did a flip off the couch at that one. I'll give Lehrer the benefit of the doubt, call it a brain cramp and say he misspoke. Still, that's a strange way to put it.

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #6 on:** September 26, 2008, 07:59:45 PM »

Quote from: don on September 26, 2008, 06:24:34 PM

Obama had the intellectual advantage.

Meaning you agree with Obama? Or what?

Unlce Bubba,

I didn't catch that one, but I did flip out when Obama repeatedly claimed that our foreign policy under Bush has been "singularly focused" on Iraq. Uh, huh.

The Annoyed Man · « **Reply #7 on:** September 26, 2008, 08:11:36 PM »

McCain really needed to use his COMMAND voice and be a lot more aggressive on highlighting the inconsistencies (lies) in Obama's responses. I think McCain came across slightly better over all but he didn't put him away.

McCain but he squandered a real opportunity.

agricola · « **Reply #8 on:** September 26, 2008, 09:08:34 PM »

Good debate.

Obama had the edge early on, and McCain garbled some stuff and even looked out of breath right at the start. Once he calmed down though (probably after that joke about whether the moderator thought he couldnt hear him) he gradually improved, and though both he and Obama missed some obvious hits I would say McCain hit more, and more effectively, than Obama did (that "bomb Iran" jibe was just stupid from Barry, and I see the Kissinger gaffe has already been exploited).

Also was it me or did McCain get quite a few laughs out of the "silent audience" with his Achmedinajad and Obama meeting routine?

McCain won*, but not by much.

* its worth noting that even the Guardian's commentary thinks he did: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/oliverburkemanblog/2008/sep/27/uselections2008.barackobama

lupinus · « **Reply #9 on:** September 27, 2008, 05:12:27 AM »

neither hit a home run, but McCain defiantly got on base more then Obama.

wacki · « **Reply #10 on:** September 27, 2008, 05:29:18 AM »

lol about arguing what Kissinger would say:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/09/tws_exclusive_kissinger_unhapp.asp

Rule of obvious thumb: Unless you have a quote in writing only debate what dead guys would say

don · « **Reply #11 on:** September 27, 2008, 05:34:05 AM »

Uncle Bubba, no need to apologize. I don't know what a canon generation is. To me Canon is a camera. I am a boomer aka old f... What I wrote was my opinion based on former experience as a speech teacher which in truth means very little when it comes to judging the effect on Joe Sixpack whose opinion is far more important than mine.
Fistful, I agree with Obama on some things and with McCain on others. Crawdaddy Jim hit the nail on the head. I would like to have seen a bit more emotion from both,but that is a tool that had best be used judiciously for it can also show desperation, loss of self control and thus a weakness.

Uncle Bubba · « **Reply #12 on:** September 27, 2008, 06:36:02 AM »

"Image Is Everything" was an ad campaign for Canon cameras around 1990 or thereabouts, don. It was the perfect sell for people who discount substance. I have an old friend who bought into the idea wholeheartedly when he was about fifteen and hasn't, or has refused to, learn any different in the thirty-plus years since.

I'm a Boomer, too, from near the end of the official years of inclusion.

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #13 on:** September 27, 2008, 07:43:53 AM »

From the link provided by wacki:

Quote

TWS Exclusive: Kissinger Unhappy About Obama

Henry Kissinger believes Barack Obama misstated his views on diplomacy with US adversaries and is not happy about being mischaracterized. He says: "Senator McCain is right. I would not recommend the next President of the United States engage in talks with Iran at the Presidential level. My views on this issue are entirely compatible with the views of my friend Senator John McCain. We do not agree on everything, but we do agree that any negotiations with Iran must be geared to reality."

Posted by Stephen F. Hayes on September 26, 2008 10:55

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2008/09/tws_exclusive_kissinger_unhapp.asp

And a link on that page:

Quote

Barack Obamas cringe-inducing Me, too moment with his troop bracelet given to him by the mother of a soldier whose name he cant remember without having to look down and read it.

HankB · « **Reply #14 on:** September 27, 2008, 10:50:58 AM »

Quote from: Uncle Bubba on September 26, 2008, 06:50:06 PM

Did anyone else's brain come to attention and scream "What!?" when Lehrer asked of both candidates how each would handle a certain situation "...when you rule the country as President."

That comment DID get my attention - and not in a good way. sad

I'd say McCain narrowly edged out Obama . . .he'd have done better, IMHO, if he'd taken some of the advice from Newt and (can't believe I'm writing this) Dick Morris about the bailout, but perhaps he's waiting for debate 2 or 3 which ought to focus more on domestic issues.

McCain also seemed to talk too fast, as if he were trying to fit in too many talking points into his time. Hey, John, it's QUALITY, not QUANTITY, that counts.

Next time Obama brings up Bush, McCain can have a line something like "You know, they say soldiers are always fighting the last war . . . it sounds like Obama's campaign is stuck in 2004."

Balog · « **Reply #15 on:** September 27, 2008, 11:16:42 AM »

Quote from: don on September 26, 2008, 06:24:34 PM

I would have to score the debate a tie. McCain's delivery was better, but Obama had the intellectual advantage. Obama needs to speak with more "fire in the belly". Had he done so, I think he would have wiped up McCain. For the average Joe Six-pack logic and intellect mean little. Sound bites and emotion will win over logic 99% of the time. There were no knock out punches by either side. McCain's closing was better than Obama's.

Do you also think Marx was one of the great thinkers of world history?

don · « **Reply #16 on:** September 27, 2008, 12:21:43 PM »

Uncle Bubba, no wonder your comment about the Canon went over my head. I am a Nikon shooter. grin

In political debates such as we have seen image is everything, along with sound bites quips and other cutesy comments. Dating back to the Kennedy - Nixon debates images were what were perceived to be real. Substance often takes a back seat to image. Emotion will win over logic 99% of the time. One thing notable about the Obama-McCain debate was the lack of sound bites and "gotchas". Had McCain or Obama scored a few of those, many would score that candidate the winner. Reagan was a master of these.
I am anxious to see the Biden-Palin debate. That one should be fun. Who will win? Darned if I know. I imagine whoever can get in the best sound bites and similar irrelevant statements.

Balog · « **Reply #17 on:** September 27, 2008, 12:38:31 PM »

I'm still curious as to why you feel Obama has the "intellectual advantage" and what issues you agree with him on.

TommyGunn · « **Reply #18 on:** September 27, 2008, 12:56:16 PM »

I did not perceive Obama as having any intellectual advantage.* He's very good at giving a speech when he has a teleprompter to read, but without that visual aid he ums and haws and uses a number of verbal crutches. To me this is not the mark of an intellect.
Not saying McCain is worthy of mensa ... but OTOH I've known Mensa people and for the most part I wouldn't vote for any of them, and anyway, they're probably unelectable in today's political climate.

Some types of debate soundbytes are effective. Reagan used soundbytes => his promise not to take advantage of his opponent's 'youth and inexperience' was a witty remark, and that does show mental agility. It's hardly the beginning and ending of a debate, but it helps.

*If Obama has an "intellectual advantage" why has he expressed more than one opinion on some issues? For example, with regards to the Heller case, he supported DC's gun ban ... but he supported the Heller decision .... yet he still claims what works in Chicago might not work elsewhere ... THIS shows intellect? Huh?

?

MechAg94 · « **Reply #19 on:** September 27, 2008, 01:00:36 PM »

Personally, I thought Obama said a whole lot of words without ever saying anything on many of the questions I heard. McCain had a lower words per thought number.

I agree with agricola's take above. I think McCain edged out the win. He mentioned more specifics in what he would do and in his attacks on Obama. I thought his point about Obama getting a Million in earmarks for each day in the Senate was good.

Monkeyleg · « **Reply #20 on:** September 27, 2008, 01:10:47 PM »

HankB, I was thinking the same thing about Newt and Morris' advice (you must have been watching O'Reilly, too).

My guess as to why he didn't make that a point is that there's no agreement yet and, if things go wrong or fall apart, his debate remarks would have come back to bite him hard.

I thought McCain missed some opportunities when Obama said that Bush was on the same side as he was on some issues (I forget the issues).

If you believe the pundits, no knockout for McCain means an Obama win.

don · « **Reply #21 on:** September 27, 2008, 04:30:32 PM »

McCain and Obama both came with a mission. Obama's was to link Mccain to eight years of failed Bush administration and McCain's was to portray Obama as naive and inexperienced. Both scored points but neither emerged as a clear winner except perhaps to their partisans. The first 30 minutes were devoted to wandering often aimlessly through the financial crisis and domestic issues ranging from tax cuts to budget items to health care. I thought Obama scored more points than McCain on these issues.On foreign I gave the nod to McCain especially his defense of the surge. He scored big here. There was a squabble concerning preconceived conditions for meetings with foreign leaders in particular Ahmadinejad. Score for McCain. Afghanistan-Obama. Pakistan -McCain; Iran -McCain Iraq- Obama, but McCain on the surge.
McCain I thought had a more effective ending. I prefer McCain's speaking style. One writer perhaps one of you said Obama is the king of uhs. I agree, but I don't consider this a lack of intellect but rather a pause to think out his next response. I scored points on how I perceived the general public would take them and as a former speech teacher. Most of this forum would disagree with my opinions,but that is fine everyone has their opinion and such judging is subjective and is colored by political persuasion. I personally don't care who anyone votes for. That is their business and none of mine. I try to stay neutral in such discussions.

gunsmith · « **Reply #22 on:** September 27, 2008, 06:31:18 PM »

I'm glad Obama said he would go into Pakistan, I've been asking SF libbys why its OK for
Obama to kill women and children, but not Bush. angel

longeyes · « **Reply #23 on:** September 28, 2008, 06:23:40 PM »

McCain and McCain's handlers lack storytelling ability. Tell the American people what daily life will be like for them under an Obama Presidency, in specific, concrete terms. Don't stand there and accept the ridiculous fiction that a man who wants to raise payroll, investment taxes, corporate taxes, and inheritance taxes is going to "lower taxes for 95 per cent of Americans."

For a warrior McCain seems to lack killer instinct.

Someone needs to remind him just what may happen to his country if BHO is elected.

don · « **Reply #24 on:** September 28, 2008, 06:53:20 PM »

Excellent suggestion Longeyes; infact, it is one of if not the best I've heard.

News:

Author Topic: The first debate (Read 4911 times)