Author Topic: Teach me about water purification systems  (Read 10918 times)

Firethorn

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Re: Teach me about water purification systems
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2009, 10:34:21 AM »
It is honest, albeit exaggerating.  As stated earlier, water softeners use ion exchange resin to "soften" water.  Softening is defined as removing minerals that qualify has "hard," these being mainly calcium and magnesium.  The "hard" minerals are only partially soluble in water, as evident by scaling you may have noticed (especially with hot hard water, solubility of these minerals is inversely related to temperature).  Sodium is very soluble in water, actually it prefers being dissolved in water over being a solid metal.

Ah, ok.  I'll have to double check my softener settings, I had very hard water, so I'm probably increasing the sodium in my water quite a bit.  Don't want to replumb so my kitchen faucet because the scaling problem was so bad that even the faucets were getting gunked up.  And despite what another site said, my faucets are noticably descaling over time and cleaning, no need for lime-away.

Not being on a sodium restricted anything; not to mention that I don't generally use salt as a spice anyways, I figure I should be good.

Maybe I should buy and use one of those labratory water tests; tell me exactly what's in my water.

alex_trebek

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Re: Teach me about water purification systems
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2009, 10:52:54 AM »
It's true the softeners do increase the sodium content of your water, but not enough to make it taste salty. I forget the actual math but I read that even if you drink an abnormally large ammount of tap water, it will only be a couple hundred milligrams a day of sodium, compared to 2000mg per day dietary suggestion. So it's something to be aware of if you are very sodium sensitive, but usually not a problem. There is also potassium salt available for use in water softeners which works just the same, but check with your manufacturer to make sure your resin will work with potassium.

Potassium is very similar to sodium, as it is next to sodium on the periodic chart.  While both are necessary for survival, potassium is more toxic than sodium.  Potassium chloride is even used as one of the injections for lethal injection executions. 

I have seen toxicity levels for humans as low as 20 mg/kg for oral ingestion.  If your water hardness is 20 mg/L, then using these numbers a person weighing roughly 200 lbs would have to drink 90 L (roughly 23 gal) of water faster than their body can remove.  While you will probably get water poisoning before potassium poisoning at this rate, recalculate for an small child (roughly 25 lbs) assuming the toxicity is the same for an adult (which it's probably lower), and that number is roughly 2.5 gal.  Personally I don't think possibly consuming .5-1 gal is too unreasonable when you account for food cooked with the soft water and bathing in the soft water.  I wouldn't be too comfortable feeding this to a nursing infant, or small child on a continual basis.

I am not saying you will kill your whole family if you use pure potassium chloride in your water softener, I am just saying that people should probably be aware of this.  If small children/older people (who are usually the more susceptible) I would either mix potassium chloride and sodium chloride salts for regenerating the softener, or only use the softener on the hot water line.


Ah, ok.  I'll have to double check my softener settings, I had very hard water, so I'm probably increasing the sodium in my water quite a bit.  Don't want to replumb so my kitchen faucet because the scaling problem was so bad that even the faucets were getting gunked up.  And despite what another site said, my faucets are noticably descaling over time and cleaning, no need for lime-away.

Not being on a sodium restricted anything; not to mention that I don't generally use salt as a spice anyways, I figure I should be good.

Maybe I should buy and use one of those labratory water tests; tell me exactly what's in my water.

If you know someone that works in a lab (or has access to one) you can get them to help.  I would take a small glass sample jar, and weight it with an analytical lab balance.  Then have them pipette a sample of your water, then either let it all evaporate or boil it off.  Weight it again then subtract the remainder, and you have the mass of "hardness" to a the +/- .1 mg (depending on the model).  If they used a pipette you will have the volume to a very accurate degree (if they know how to use it).  This is, of course, if the lab doesn't have the capability of testing water hardness.

Or you could order a testing kit.  =)

Marnoot

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Re: Teach me about water purification systems
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2009, 11:21:13 AM »
Ah, ok.  I'll have to double check my softener settings, I had very hard water, so I'm probably increasing the sodium in my water quite a bit.

Multiply your grains-per-gallon of "hardness" by 29.772 (30's close enough) and you'll get how many milligrams of sodium you're adding per gallon. The RO systems will remove all the sodium, making it a non-issue. Most of our drinking water comes from the RO, unless I grab a quick drink from the bathroom faucet or some such.

RevDisk

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Re: Teach me about water purification systems
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2009, 11:36:10 AM »
B) This thread prompted me to go out and buy a Brita pitcher filtration system.  Reading the package, I see that the filters use an ion exchange process (along with the charcoal) to filter the water.  Does this mean that I can "recharge" the filters instead of buying new ones by using brine water?  Not that $5 for a filter that lasts (supposedly) 2 months is gonna break the bank.

I use Brita pitchers as well.  There are many better options, but I like the cost effectiveness and I primarily only care about the water quality in my drinking and cooking water.  That said, yea, don't bother with the recharging.  Just go with the new filters.  The larger the bulk of filters you buy, the cheaper. 
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Firethorn

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Re: Teach me about water purification systems
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2009, 03:13:56 PM »
The larger the bulk of filters you buy, the cheaper. 

Where can I get larger bulk packs?  The largest I've ever seen is 3.

Still, that's almost a year's worth for me.  I drink a lot of water, but it's only for me.

Brad Johnson

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Re: Teach me about water purification systems
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2009, 03:27:11 PM »
Bought the system and installed it last night.

I let it basically run and flush for a few hours, and the water tastes great.

I didn't hook it up to my fridge because I'm a dummy.  The waterline I thought went to my fridge was really hot water to go to my dishwasher.  My fridge has its own outlet right behind it.

The water tastes very good, but still has a slight taste of chlorine to it, but it tastes almost as good as bottled water, enough that I'm very happy with it so far.

If it's an RO system you shouldn't be tasting any chlorine at all.

Brad
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Marnoot

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Re: Teach me about water purification systems
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2009, 03:42:04 PM »
If it's an RO system you shouldn't be tasting any chlorine at all.

Brad

QFT. Did you sanitize the system with a bleach solution before you put in the membranes? If so, did you let it fill up the pressure tank twice, and discard the water from both times? Does the system have a post-tank polishing filter to get rid of any tank-flavor?
« Last Edit: February 23, 2009, 06:31:46 PM by Marnoot »

Doggy Daddy

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Re: Teach me about water purification systems
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2009, 06:07:22 PM »
Quote
Where can I get larger bulk packs?  The largest I've ever seen is 3.

WalMart had 3-packs for $15 and change, the 4-packs were just pennies short of $20.  Not a great difference in cost/filter.
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RevDisk

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Re: Teach me about water purification systems
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2009, 08:22:14 PM »
Where can I get larger bulk packs?  The largest I've ever seen is 3.

Still, that's almost a year's worth for me.  I drink a lot of water, but it's only for me.

I've seen 5 packs, 7 packs and 10 packs at Target.  I don't remember the prices, though.  If you're only going through 3 a year, probably not worth the effort of stocking up.
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stevelyn

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Re: Teach me about water purification systems
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2009, 11:26:17 PM »
If you're just trying to improve crappy water from the local utility, one of these http://www.purwater.com/#/products works very well. I have one on my faucet and changes crappy city water full of manganese and chlorine into mountain springwater.

If you are on your own system and having water issues, you should probably call the Culligan man.
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Nitrogen

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Re: Teach me about water purification systems
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2009, 12:18:38 AM »
QFT. Did you sanitize the system with a bleach solution before you put in the membranes? If so, did you let it fill up the pressure tank twice, and discard the water from both times? Does the system have a post-tank polishing filter to get rid of any tank-flavor?

I did sanitize the system as instructed.  I've emptied the tank twice, and will empty it again in the morning (it's filling up now)

I will admit that it could very easily be psychosomatic.  The algae bloom taste is COMPLETELY gone, as is the harsh smell of the chlorene.  I can taste a vast difference.  MY wife is absolutely ecstatic with joy with this system so far.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Teach me about water purification systems
« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2009, 06:45:57 PM »
Try this ... wash your hands using water from that spout.  That's how your whole body will feel with a softening system. Nice and cleeeeean.

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
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Balog

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Re: Teach me about water purification systems
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2009, 06:48:32 PM »
Try this ... wash your hands using water from that spout.  That's how your whole body will feel with a softening system. Nice and cleeeeean covered in a viscous slime.

Brad

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Brad Johnson

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Re: Teach me about water purification systems
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2009, 06:49:48 PM »
That's not slime.  The slick feeling is your skin, which is no longer covered with a microscopic layer of hard water crud.

Brad
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
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Manedwolf

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Re: Teach me about water purification systems
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2009, 06:49:52 PM »
This one HAS to be a scam...

http://www.hydrocareusa.com/


Brad Johnson

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Re: Teach me about water purification systems
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2009, 06:50:18 PM »
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB

Manedwolf

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Re: Teach me about water purification systems
« Reply #41 on: February 24, 2009, 06:51:21 PM »
It is.

Brad

I figured. If not from the "HA HA no" look of it vs basic physics, then from the fact that there's ads for it on XM...

Brad Johnson

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Re: Teach me about water purification systems
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2009, 06:53:51 PM »
There's some (very questionable) anecdotal evidence that it MIGHT have a slight effect on water with a high iron content.  For run-of-the-mill hard water it's a waste of money.

For your amusement, the Gallery of Water Related Pseudoscience

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/gallery.html

Brad
« Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 06:58:59 PM by Brad Johnson »
It's all about the pancakes, people.
"And he thought cops wouldn't chase... a STOLEN DONUT TRUCK???? That would be like Willie Nelson ignoring a pickup full of weed."
-HankB

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Re: Teach me about water purification systems
« Reply #43 on: February 24, 2009, 07:55:14 PM »
I learn so much random, yet awesome stuff from threads like this.  Thanks again folks.

Oh yeah, the chlorine taste is completely gone.  Awesome tasting water is water you like to drink at room temperature.
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Re: Teach me about water purification systems
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2009, 01:00:23 AM »
I drink naught by the pure morning dew collected from butterfly wings.

That, and diet Coke.

Sorry to burst your bubble, Mike, but new research has shown that the scales that butterfly wings shed can contaminate the dew.  Consumed in large enough quantities, it can cause one to be excessively ornery and generally hard to get along with.

Or maybe that's the caffeine in the Coke...  =D
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ilbob

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Re: Teach me about water purification systems
« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2009, 09:58:30 AM »
If it's an RO system you shouldn't be tasting any chlorine at all.

Brad

Yep. Under sink RO units almost always have post RO carbon filtration to remove chlorine and organics that will slip past the RO membrane.

IIRC, most under sink type RO models have a carbon pre-filter to remove chlorine before it can get to the membrane because the membrane is sensitive to chlorine.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2009, 10:05:40 AM by ilbob »
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Re: Teach me about water purification systems
« Reply #46 on: March 04, 2009, 11:41:16 PM »
Get a British Berkefeld.  They are gravity filters which last 6000 gallons.

http://www.britishberkefeld.com/

http://www.jamesfilter.com/