Author Topic: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.  (Read 107403 times)

Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas

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Re: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.
« Reply #75 on: June 20, 2009, 10:34:11 PM »
OK, guys. I missed the part of this thread that mentioned 100 years for the copyright. That does seem extreme. I don't think anyone is howling because somebody is copying Bunny Berigan's version of "I Can't Get Started" today. ;)

I do stand by my defense of copyright, though.
The point of the copyright length question was to address the notion that copyright infringement is theft. If a piano has been sitting in your house since Sherman marched through Georgia, and someone takes it, it's as much theft as somebody snatching your iPod. If the same rules don't apply, then copyrights/patents are different in some way.
And FWIW, I believe current copyright extensions were set up at the behest of Disney, who didn't want Mickey Mouse becoming public domain.

MechAg94

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Re: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.
« Reply #76 on: June 21, 2009, 11:01:59 AM »
I thought the reason patents were dealt with differently was because new technology in the public domain was a good thing for the market as a whole and for maintaining open competition in the market in the long run.  However, it was recognized that people won't develop new things without their being a profit in it.  So the answer is a patent for a specific time allowing the inventor to make a profit from his invention without creating a permanent monopoly.   

On copyrights, it doesn't matter to the market either way whether or not the song Satisfaction is in the public domain or not.  There is no "public good" to pushing that song to the public domain other than some people want to use it for free. 
« Last Edit: June 21, 2009, 11:05:00 AM by MechAg94 »
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Hawkmoon

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Re: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.
« Reply #77 on: June 21, 2009, 03:13:43 PM »
Copyright infringement is not theft.

Yes, it is. Specifically, theft of intellectual property.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.
« Reply #78 on: June 21, 2009, 03:20:40 PM »
I thought making archival copies, of anything (be it xerox books or photos), is ok as long as you:

a) Own the originals
b) Do not disseminate the archives

AFAIK, only (some) computer software allows for this in the copyright notice. Books certainly don't, and I don't think music or cinematic CDs and DVDs do.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.
« Reply #79 on: June 21, 2009, 03:35:07 PM »
Honestly it surprises me to see so much opposition to free market economics. I suppose price controls, tariffs, wage controls, and other such government regulations must be ok, too, if copyright is completely legit. They perform the same artificial market function of protecting the revenues of one entity (who would be upset if his products were valued fairly by the market).

The music industry IS free market economics. "Free market" means that the goverment doesn't set or impose artificial price controls ... be it "floors" or "caps." Does the government in any way participate in setting the price for a music CD or a movie DVD? No. "Free market" means that the price is established by what vendors and buyers are willing to (respectively) charge and pay. If Pixar wants to charge $20 for the DVD of last year's smash movie, and people are willing to buy it for $20 -- that's free market economics at work. If Pixar wants $20 and nobody buys it -- then Pixar was asking too much and the (free) market slapped them on the wrist. But making illegal copies is still stealing, regardless of how hard you try to rationalize it. The movie is still Pixar's intellectual property. If you avail yourself of it without paying a fee that is acceptable to them (irrespective of whether or not you think it's acceptable to you) ... you are stealing.
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BryanP

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Re: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.
« Reply #80 on: June 21, 2009, 03:53:30 PM »
AFAIK, only (some) computer software allows for this in the copyright notice. Books certainly don't, and I don't think music or cinematic CDs and DVDs do.

The RIAA would certainly like for this to be the case.  Hell, according to some people with that organization, if I own a CD I shouldn't be permitted to rip it to my iPod, but should instead be forced to purchase a separate downloaded copy just for that purpose.
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Seenterman

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Re: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.
« Reply #81 on: June 22, 2009, 10:27:03 AM »
Quote
If you buy the home, you're usually buying all rights to it, with no time limitations.

See, this is something that bothered me for awhile. I may have taken your statement out of context but bear with me.

I thought when you purchased a cd (music, video games, software) you were actually buying a licence to use that software. Yet that $60 game is gone if I scratch the disk and now I have to spend another $60 all over again! I think that is pretty wrong, companies shouldn't be forced to give the a new free cd but for people that provided the original scrached disk they should be charged a reasonable price like $10 or 10% or the purchase price not for the full price of the software.  Anyone got any ideas on that?



Balog

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Re: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.
« Reply #82 on: June 22, 2009, 11:11:27 AM »
And you want the .gov to force the musician/moviemaker/software company to do this?

As much as I hate it, M$ etc can make any contract they want. If you agree to it you're bound, no matter how stupid it is. The answer is more competition, not .gov forcing them to violate their contracts in the name of "fairness."
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MechAg94

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Re: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.
« Reply #83 on: June 22, 2009, 11:20:39 AM »
Last time I bought extra software for my computer at work, I bought a license for MS Visio.  I could either download the program or pay extra for the CD.  The license was to use the software.  I guess it depends.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.
« Reply #84 on: June 22, 2009, 03:06:01 PM »
Last time I bought extra software for my computer at work, I bought a license for MS Visio.  I could either download the program or pay extra for the CD.  The license was to use the software.  I guess it depends.

Yepp. Typically, the license is to use the software on ONE computer, and to make ONE archival copy of the software for back-up purposes. Some software companies/licenses provide for ONE user to install the software on one desktop computer and one notebook computer, recognizing the real-world situation of today's many "road warriors" in the business world. They know people are doing it anyway, and they don't intend to persecute prosecute the end users who put their offfice software on their notebooks, so they get to appear like good guys by saying it's okay up front.

Borland (Quattro Pro, anyone remember that?) used to have a license that used the book analogy. I could load Quattro Pro onto as many computers as I owned -- as long as I and only I used Q-Pro at any one time. I doubt they would have come after me if someone had reported that my wife was using it on the desktop at the exact same time I was using it on the notebook, but if I had used one license to set up an entire department I think they might have become more interested.
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Balog

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Re: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.
« Reply #85 on: June 25, 2009, 05:23:02 PM »
I must page 2swap to this thread.

Did she not receive the page, or just not want to get involved? I was rather interested to hear what she thought.
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If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

MicroBalrog

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Re: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.
« Reply #86 on: June 25, 2009, 05:23:48 PM »
Did she not receive the page, or just not want to get involved? I was rather interested to hear what she thought.

She's busy with midterm exams it seems.
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Balog

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Re: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.
« Reply #87 on: June 25, 2009, 05:24:31 PM »
She's busy with midterm exams it seems.

Didn't realize the German school year was so different; suppose I should've thought.
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If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

freakazoid

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Re: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.
« Reply #88 on: June 25, 2009, 08:35:20 PM »
Quote
If there was a legal system in place that said that anyone could make an image, and then "viewright" it, and charge whatever they want of anyone anywhere viewing it, dictate how they could hang it on their private walls, and it was sporadically enforced through FUD by levying massive fines on those caught viewing without paying protection money, it would be no less crazy to me than copyright.

There is something like that with movies, in that you can't have a bunch of people watch it at one time, don't know what the limit it.

For all those who say downloading music is theft. If I let a friend borrow the cd and they listen to it, did they just steal it? After all they didn't pay for it. If I was to invite a bunch of friends over and we watch a movie, did they all just steal it? They didn't pay for it.
When they claim that they would of lost this amount of money, that is all based on if every single one of those people would of rushed out there and bought a CD but now because they downloaded it they are not going to. How can they tell me what I can and can't do with something that I paid money for. Once I gave them money, that CD has now become mine. Who are they to tell me that I can't make copies and then let others have those copies for free?
And what do you guys think about this, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFXivarypE4
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lupinus

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Re: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.
« Reply #89 on: June 25, 2009, 09:01:03 PM »
Quote
I thought when you purchased a cd (music, video games, software) you were actually buying a license to use that software. Yet that $60 game is gone if I scratch the disk and now I have to spend another $60 all over again! I think that is pretty wrong, companies shouldn't be forced to give the a new free CD but for people that provided the original scrached disk they should be charged a reasonable price like $10 or 10% or the purchase price not for the full price of the software.  Anyone got any ideas on that?

This is what ticks me off about write protections and the like.

I am all for people who produce a product getting paid for it, they made it, they produced and distributed it.  However at the same time, customers should be able to make backup copies so long as they are not distributed IMO. 
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Balog

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Re: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.
« Reply #90 on: June 25, 2009, 09:48:47 PM »
Freak: if you lend a person a cd, they have it not you. The problem is both people having the same thing at the same time with only one paying for it.

Same with a movie. Non-commercial exhibition is fine, but only one copy exists.
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If government is the answer, it must have been a really, really, really stupid question.

K Frame

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Re: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.
« Reply #91 on: June 25, 2009, 09:52:15 PM »
As someone who has had his intellectual work products pilfer and redistributed before, I'm really torn on this. I know I just about lost my mind the first time I saw one of my stories on the front page of the weekly county birdcage liner without it credited to me.

I recognize the desire of the artists to protect their creative product, but so often it seems that with these cases it's not about creativity, it's simply about protecting royalties and investments. That also resonates with me, but not as strongly.
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RocketMan

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Re: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.
« Reply #92 on: June 27, 2009, 02:54:56 AM »
I know I just about lost my mind the first time I saw one of my stories on the front page of the weekly county birdcage liner without it credited to me.

Out of curiousity, Mike, did you ever receive compensation of some sort for the theft?
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2swap

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Re: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.
« Reply #93 on: June 29, 2009, 10:54:32 AM »
Hi, yeah, I am still in midterm mode. The school year is different because I attend a private college and they are woefully disobedient of normal conventions on holidays or the begin and end of the school year.

There are many reasons against copyright laws in the current form. One of these reasons is, that sharing music helps the artists (better concert attendance), the consumers (free music, yay!) but not the intermediates. there are labels who understood this by now. Magnatune being a great example and Jamendo another one (jamendo is not exactly a label but sufficiently similar).

People liken intellectual property to real property, but I think this is not a valid comparison. If I give you an apple and you give me an apple, we both have one apple, if I give you an idea and you give me an idea, we both have 2 ideas. Sharing does not 'deplete' the immaterial resource. The use of terminology from the material world is more or less a tactic of the intermediates to muddy the waters so that people don't see what really is occurring: the exchange of ideas where no one actually loses anything. Since most of the time, the price of CDs seems to be prohibitively high and there is a huge uncertainty about the quality of the music on it (There is a related paradox: the price of a piece of information can only be evaluated if you know it already, but then you would no longer want to buy it), downloaded files do not equal lost sales. More often than not it is the other way around: After you stumbled upon an awesome song on the internet and downloaded it, you are more likely to buy the CD. I would never expected something good behind the name Timid Tiger, but after I DLed the song "Combat Songs and Traffic Fights" (legally, btw, since their label understand the modern market) I decided to buy their album.

So, yeah, the view of copyright by the RIAA, MPAA and similar organisations is deprecated and detrimental to the success of the artists.

: spin
  92 47 124 45 45 58 emit dup emit emit
  begin 8 emit dup emit swap 2swap key? until ;

zahc

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Re: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.
« Reply #94 on: June 29, 2009, 11:02:57 AM »
Piracy only hurts the giants in the industry; it hurts the artist that everyone already knows about. Everyone else is far more likely to suffer from obscurity. If nobody knows about you, nobody is going to buy your merchandise or even pirate you in the first place.

Quote
Cory Doctorow, a novelist whose young adult novel “Little Brother” spent seven weeks on the New York Times children’s chapter books best-seller list last year, offers free electronic versions of his books on the same day they are published in hardcover. He believes free versions, even unauthorized ones, entice new readers.

“I really feel like my problem isn’t piracy,” Mr. Doctorow said. “It’s obscurity.”

Quote
sharing music helps the artists (better concert attendance), the consumers (free music, yay!) but not the intermediates

Of course the middlemen are necessary after all. It doesn't make sense for artists to individually press all their records, and maintain distribution networks to stores, etc. They need the record companies to deal with all these logistics for them. Now, if only there was a way to connect the artists directly to their audience, instantly across geographical space, without the need for records and stores...maybe like a web for sending information...
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Re: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.
« Reply #95 on: June 29, 2009, 11:45:04 AM »
Now, if only there was a way to connect the artists directly to their audience, instantly across geographical space, without the need for records and stores...maybe like a web for sending information...

There'll be no more of that crazy talk here!  If man had been made to communicate instantly over distance, he'd have been made telepathic.
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Re: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.
« Reply #96 on: June 29, 2009, 01:31:00 PM »
Quote
for people that provided the original scrached disk they should be charged a reasonable price like $10 or 10% or the purchase price not for the full price of the software.  Anyone got any ideas on that?

Some companies do this already (at least for computer software, don't know about music or anything else). Naturally, it should be up to the company if they want to offer this or not.

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Monkeyleg

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Re: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.
« Reply #97 on: June 29, 2009, 01:52:56 PM »
Quote
sharing music helps the artists (better concert attendance)

Yup. Why would they want to make money from CD sales when they can make all their money living in a bus, going from one town to another?  :rolleyes:

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Re: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.
« Reply #98 on: June 29, 2009, 01:58:27 PM »
Actually Dick, that model DOES work.

Remember, for a musician, obscurity is a far worse problem than theft...
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freakazoid

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Re: RIAA Hates you and wants to bankrupt you.
« Reply #99 on: June 29, 2009, 05:46:40 PM »
Yup. Why would they want to make money from CD sales when they can make all their money living in a bus, going from one town to another?  :rolleyes:

I believe they actually make most of there money from concerts, sooo....
"so I ended up getting the above because I didn't want to make a whole production of sticking something between my knees and cranking. To me, the cranking on mine is pretty effortless, at least on the coarse setting. Maybe if someone has arthritis or something, it would be more difficult for them." - Ben

"I see a rager at least once a week." - brimic