Author Topic: Military to allow illegals to enlist  (Read 4695 times)

mtnbkr

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Re: Military to allow illegals to enlist
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2014, 01:36:59 PM »
Plenty of "law breakers" with clearances. Depends on what laws and most importantly if they lie about it

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This.  Clearances aren't necessarily about being squeaky clean.

Chris

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Re:
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2014, 05:48:02 PM »
Yeah but the assumption is that you will go for and do no more such things.  Given the id fraud involved to work on the books and the array of federal statutes an illegal has to break...that would get many folks clearences lost.  Were they not illegals getting special treatment.

I would love to see one of these jokers get a lifestyle poly or try for a sap sar program.
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MechAg94

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Re: Military to allow illegals to enlist
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2014, 11:24:46 PM »
If one were paranoid, one might think this would allow the importation of a bunch of foreign soldiers who would then be called US soldiers.   =D  [tinfoil].     =|
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Firethorn

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Re:
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2014, 02:43:58 AM »
Given the id fraud involved to work on the books and the array of federal statutes an illegal has to break...that would get many folks clearences lost.  Were they not illegals getting special treatment.

Keeping in mind that I only support this exemption for young adults whose parents brought them here illegally when they were still kids, I figure that in most of these cases their parents committed what ID fraud needed to be done, then with sufficient history here they were able to get the other things without extra illegality on their part.

Often it's not until they're getting ready to graduate high school that they figure out how much their own parents screwed them, because SURPRISE!  You're not a citizen of the country you've been in, where you attended primary school from elementary on up in, you can't legally work in the country.

In the end, I think we have two different pictures of what the illegals under this program are like.  I remember reading somewhere that something like 30% of the kids that qualify under these programs aren't even bilingual enough to count.  Their parents never taught them their native tongue.

Quote
I would love to see one of these jokers get a lifestyle poly or try for a sap sar program.

Going by a couple of the cases I remember, it wouldn't be hard at all.

Also, I looked up the statutes and situation a month or so ago.  Joining the military is the fastest track to US citizenship available, especially today.  We're considered to be in wartime status, so they're actually administering the oath of citizenship upon graduation from boot/basic. 

For a young adult who was brought here as a pre-teen by his/her parents and has attended US education and kept their nose clean enough that the US Military is willing to take them?  I'm not concerned.

zxcvbob

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Re: Military to allow illegals to enlist
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2014, 10:03:38 AM »
This.  Clearances aren't necessarily about being squeaky clean.

Chris

How much of a clearance does one need to carry a rifle or wash dishes or "shovel sh** in Louisiana"? (serious question)

It seems to me, the clearance wouldn't be a problem unless you were an officer, kinda-high-ranking NCO, or specialist.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2014, 10:06:39 AM by zxcvbob »
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mtnbkr

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Re: Military to allow illegals to enlist
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2014, 10:29:09 AM »
I wasn't in the military, but my understanding is that you can be a low-level grunt and still need a clearance based on where you need to work.  My clearances were all for Civ contracting.

Chris

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Military to allow illegals to enlist
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2014, 10:35:10 AM »
And I know a guy one step below lifestyle with a conviction for dealing pop. And the local webmaster/spokesman for NORML is the same. Plenty of folks with clearances with drug and booze troubles in their past. Key is having done something about it and being honest about it


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roo_ster

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Re: Military to allow illegals to enlist
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2014, 10:58:59 AM »
How much of a clearance does one need to carry a rifle or wash dishes or "shovel sh** in Louisiana"? (serious question)

It seems to me, the clearance wouldn't be a problem unless you were an officer, kinda-high-ranking NCO, or specialist.

Everyone in my unit, from *expletive deleted*it shoveler on up to COL had to have, at minimum, a Secret clearance.  No clearance, no place in the unit.

==================

Firethorn:

I see you have quaffed of the propaganda. 

"Oh, little Juanny never even knew he was illegal.  And if he knew, he came over as <checks fraudulent paperwork> a precocious kindergartener guided only by his own great heart for service, not as a teen-aged demi-thug."

Oh, I am sure it happened once, someplace in America.  But frequent enough to make policy from it?  Nope, it is just the ol' bait & switch, dishonest propagandizing, and latest in "Will someone please think of the <illegal> children!"


And I know a guy one step below lifestyle with a conviction for dealing pop. And the local webmaster/spokesman for NORML is the same. Plenty of folks with clearances with drug and booze troubles in their past. Key is having done something about it and being honest about it

Past pot use/dissemination won't keep one from a clearance.  Hasn't for decades.  ID theft, committing fraud federal-level on documents many times over the years and such are indicative of a something other than "youthful indiscretion."  At least among citizens.

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Balog

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Re: Military to allow illegals to enlist
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2014, 11:38:05 AM »
It'd be nice if supposedly conservative folks could look beyond first order consequences and consider things like the precedent that is being set. Once you have the "Illegals can enlist no problems" precedent in effect, all of the "if they were minor children blah blah blah" parameters can be changed.
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Re: Military to allow illegals to enlist
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2014, 01:59:58 AM »
How much of a clearance does one need to carry a rifle or wash dishes or "shovel sh** in Louisiana"? (serious question)

USAF is effectively Secret, because that's the level they settled on for giving people access to NIPRnet, and you can't function in the USAF today if you don't have access to it.

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It seems to me, the clearance wouldn't be a problem unless you were an officer, kinda-high-ranking NCO, or specialist.

That's kind of the trick - you can have Colonels with only a secret clearance and E-1s with a TS/SCI.  Clearance levels are job/duty specific, not rank dependent. 

"Oh, little Juanny never even knew he was illegal.  And if he knew, he came over as <checks fraudulent paperwork> a precocious kindergartener guided only by his own great heart for service, not as a teen-aged demi-thug."

I'm talking about stuff like the girl who was a serious candidate for valedictorian at her school.  Your average demi-thug will have sufficient record to prevent them from entering the military for other reasons, so sure, get rid of him.

Quote
Oh, I am sure it happened once, someplace in America.  But frequent enough to make policy from it?  Nope, it is just the ol' bait & switch, dishonest propagandizing, and latest in "Will someone please think of the <illegal> children!"

It's happened numerous times.  I guess the difference is how serious you consider it - is illegal immigration closer to speeding, marijuana use, or a violent felony?

Jocassee

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Re: Military to allow illegals to enlist
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2014, 08:34:22 AM »
My understanding is that the document in question only allows 1500 such persons per year, and only for MOS's that need their particular skills--like Arabic language translators.

This is not geared toward hispanics. THAT SAID.

Still not excusable, still has the problems with clearances, and is almost certainly the aforementioned camel's nose in the tent.
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wmenorr67

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Re: Military to allow illegals to enlist
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2014, 01:20:18 PM »
My understanding is that the document in question only allows 1500 such persons per year, and only for MOS's that need their particular skills--like Arabic language translators.

This is not geared toward hispanics. THAT SAID.

Still not excusable, still has the problems with clearances, and is almost certainly the aforementioned camel's nose in the tent.

I never read the article and don't care to.  I say up front regardless of motives or intent, if you are in this country illegally you don't deserve to be in our military.  Too many people that come her legally that can do the same damn jobs.  As for Arabic speakers per se, if they aren't here legally I'm not sure I want them translating for me.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Military to allow illegals to enlist
« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2014, 01:53:40 PM »
I wasn't in the military, but my understanding is that you can be a low-level grunt and still need a clearance based on where you need to work.  My clearances were all for Civ contracting.

Chris

As an E4 I carried a Secret clearance as did everyone on the boat except cooks and store keepers.and even they were briefed in Secret for the duration of a particular mission. On my last 2 commands, instructor and then back on the boat I had E4s and E5s working for me that had TS/SBI/SCI.
 
If I remember right we had a couple of Filipino nationals that enlisted to become citizens. Their jobs and clearances were restricted.
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wmenorr67

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Re: Military to allow illegals to enlist
« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2014, 06:34:35 PM »
If not a citizen you aren't getting a clearance, plain and simple.
There are five things, above all else, that make life worth living: a good relationship with God, a good woman, good health, good friends, and a good cigar.

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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Military to allow illegals to enlist
« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2014, 07:15:31 PM »
They can get a laa which can be equivalent to a secret


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Fitz

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Re: Military to allow illegals to enlist
« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2014, 08:04:11 PM »
They can get a laa which can be equivalent to a secret


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Except that a GREAT deal of the info you need a Secret for in the military is classified Secret/NOFORN


WHich means they couldn't see it anyway
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Re: Military to allow illegals to enlist
« Reply #41 on: October 02, 2014, 01:09:51 PM »
Except that a GREAT deal of the info you need a Secret for in the military is classified Secret/NOFORN

Is that why Obama seems so uninformed?

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Military to allow illegals to enlist
« Reply #42 on: October 02, 2014, 01:50:03 PM »
No politicians get a gimme clearance. As do a lot of their staff either a literal one or a defacto one. Their membership in the workers party not withstanding. Heck Ted Kennedy was engaged in back channel communications with the KGB in direct opposition to policies of this country that he was against. In some places you get a trial and a bullet for that. Not here


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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I