Author Topic: Breyer: Court should aid minority rights  (Read 4150 times)

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Breyer: Court should aid minority rights
« on: December 03, 2006, 07:55:15 PM »
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061203/ap_on_go_su_co/breyer_democracy



By HOPE YEN, Associated Press Writer Sun Dec 3, 2:50 PM ET

WASHINGTON - Justice Stephen G. Breyer says the Supreme Court must promote the political rights of minorities and look beyond the Constitution's text when necessary to ensure that "no one gets too powerful."
 
Breyer, a Clinton appointee who has brokered many of the high court's 5-4 rulings, spoke in a televised interview that aired one day before justices hear a key case on race in schools. He said judges must consider the practical impact of a decision to ensure democratic participation.

"We're the boundary patrol," Breyer said, reiterating themes in his 2005 book that argue in favor of race preferences in university admissions because they would lead to diverse workplaces and leadership.

"It's a Constitution that protects a democratic system, basic liberties, a rule of law, a degree of equality, a division of powers, state, federal, so that no one gets too powerful," said Breyer, who often votes with a four-member liberal bloc of justices.

On Monday, the court will hear arguments in a pair of cases involving integration plans in K-12 schools. The legal challenge, which is backed by the Bush administration, could be among the most significant school cases since the landmark Brown v. Board of Education ruling in 1954 banned racial segregation.

In 2003, the court upheld race-conscious admissions in higher education in a 5-4 opinion by Justice
Sandra Day O'Connor.

O'Connor, however, has since retired and been replaced by conservative Justice
Samuel Alito. Justice
Antonin Scalia, meanwhile, has denounced the use of race in school admissions as lacking any support in the Constitution.

In his interview, Breyer argued that in some cases it wouldn't make sense to strictly follow the Constitution because phrases such as "freedom of speech" are vague. Judges must look at the real-world context  not focus solely on framers' intent, as Scalia has argued  because society is constantly evolving, he said.

"Those words, 'the freedom of speech,' 'Congress shall pass no law abridging the freedom of speech'  neither they, the founders, nor those words tell you how to apply it to the Internet," Breyer said.

Pointing to the example of campaign finance, Breyer also said the court was right in 2003 to uphold on a 5-4 vote the McCain-Feingold law that banned unlimited donations to political parties.

Acknowledging that critics had a point in saying the law violates free speech, Breyer said the limits were constitutional because it would make the electoral process more fair and democratic to the little guy who isn't tied to special interests.

"You don't want one person's speech, that $20 million giver, to drown out everybody else's. So if we want to give a chance to the people who have only $1 and not $20 million, maybe we have to do something to make that playing field a little more level in terms of money," he said.

Breyer, who has voted to uphold abortion rights, declined to comment on the court's role in deciding abortion. Justices this term are considering the constitutionality of so-called "partial-birth" abortion in a case some conservatives hope will be used to overturn the landmark 1973
Roe v. Wade ruling.

"The more the precedent has been around, the more people rely on it, the more secure it has to be," he said.

Breyer commented on "Fox News Sunday," in an interview taped last week.

The Rabbi

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Re: Breyer: Court should aid minority rights
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2006, 10:43:23 PM »
Oy.
He appears to have no concept of politics and some very strange ideas remote from reality.
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BakerMikeRomeo

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Re: Breyer: Court should aid minority rights
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2006, 11:16:55 PM »
Racism is okay as long as it's in favor of people who aren't white or asian!

I hope he gets hit by a dump truck.

~GnSx

Fly320s

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Re: Breyer: Court should aid minority rights
« Reply #3 on: December 04, 2006, 12:15:13 AM »
Wow.  How did that guy ever make it to the Supreme Court?

"Free speech isn't fair if you're rich.  Racial discrimination by public school systems is fine, as long as the system discriminates against whites."

And what is with all the talk of democracy?  The US is not a democracy, dammit.  Geez, I think that a SCOTUS judge would know the difference.
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El Tejon

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Re: Breyer: Court should aid minority rights
« Reply #4 on: December 04, 2006, 02:28:46 AM »
Policy trumps the Constitution.

Be afraid, be very afraid.
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griz

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Re: Breyer: Court should aid minority rights
« Reply #5 on: December 04, 2006, 02:54:15 AM »
Quote
Breyer argued that in some cases it wouldn't make sense to strictly follow the Constitution

Since he sworn an oath to that same constitution I think he should be impeached.  But then I guess that wouldn't be "fair" rolleyes
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Art Eatman

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Re: Breyer: Court should aid minority rights
« Reply #6 on: December 04, 2006, 05:27:08 AM »
"Judges must look at the real-world context  not focus solely on framers' intent, as Scalia has argued  because society is constantly evolving, he said."

I'd hate to loan any money to this guy.  He might well "evolve" into believing he needn't pay me back.  Forget his original intent...

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Otherguy Overby

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Re: Breyer: Court should aid minority rights
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2006, 05:39:22 AM »

I saw some of this interview.  The man is a true ideological zealot.  He's so delusional he can go on national TV and spout all this socialist nonsense with an apparently clear conscience.  It would be interesting to see him interviewed by someone actually knowledgeable of both The Constitution and the law.

He needs to be immediately impeached.  That'll never happen, though.  Near as I can figure, America is already lost
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AmbulanceDriver

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Re: Breyer: Court should aid minority rights
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2006, 12:07:06 PM »
Ugh....

I read this, and just want to puke.  That people could have such a huge concept of relativism, i.e. everything is relative, subjective, and can "evolve".  Unfortunately, iron clad laws and concepts don't sit well with the relativists....


I'm gonna go puke now.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Breyer: Court should aid minority rights
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2006, 12:35:35 PM »
Except for those pesky little reg's that keep us all safe, warm and happy.  Those must be followed to the letter. 
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Cosmoline

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Re: Breyer: Court should aid minority rights
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2006, 02:25:42 PM »
Quote
Breyer argued that in some cases it wouldn't make sense to strictly follow the Constitution

Since he sworn an oath to that same constitution I think he should be impeached.  But then I guess that wouldn't be "fair" rolleyes

Read the First Amendment and tell me if you think it should be STRICTLY word-for-word enforced, without interpretation or qualification. 

Breyer is perfectly correct.  Under Brown and other rulings which these justices have inherited, race not only can but *must* be considered in an EP analysis.  This has led to fifty years of problems, and continues to cause problems today. 

You folks are reading the headline, and in classic FOX news fashion turning off your brains. Let's break it down:

Quote
the Supreme Court must promote the political rights of minorities and look beyond the Constitution's text when necessary to ensure that "no one gets too powerful." ..."We're the boundary patrol," Breyer said, ... "It's a Constitution that protects a democratic system, basic liberties, a rule of law, a degree of equality, a division of powers, state, federal, so that no one gets too powerful," said Breyer, who often votes with a four-member liberal bloc of justices.

True.  Completely true and really beyond serious debate.  The devil is in the details, as always.


Quote
In his interview, Breyer argued that in some cases it wouldn't make sense to strictly follow the Constitution because phrases such as "freedom of speech" are vague. Judges must look at the real-world context  not focus solely on framers' intent, as Scalia has argued  because society is constantly evolving, he said. "Those words, 'the freedom of speech,' 'Congress shall pass no law abridging the freedom of speech'  neither they, the founders, nor those words tell you how to apply it to the Internet," Breyer said.

Again, completely true. The First says nothing about the internet nor does it define "speech" to include emails or even phone calls.  To strictly follow the 18th century meaning would render it meaningless today. 

Quote
Pointing to the example of campaign finance, Breyer also said the court was right in 2003 to uphold on a 5-4 vote the McCain-Feingold law that banned unlimited donations to political parties.  Acknowledging that critics had a point in saying the law violates free speech, Breyer said the limits were constitutional because it would make the electoral process more fair and democratic to the little guy who isn't tied to special interests.  "You don't want one person's speech, that $20 million giver, to drown out everybody else's. So if we want to give a chance to the people who have only $1 and not $20 million, maybe we have to do something to make that playing field a little more level in terms of money," he said.

While I don't agree with that holding, I must admit that whatever the Court decided to do, it would in fact be making a choice about the balance of power in elections. 

Cosmoline

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Re: Breyer: Court should aid minority rights
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2006, 02:31:58 PM »
I read this, and just want to puke.  That people could have such a huge concept of relativism, i.e. everything is relative, subjective, and can "evolve".  Unfortunately, iron clad laws and concepts don't sit well with the relativists....

What "iron clad laws" are beyond interpretation? 

Cosmoline

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Re: Breyer: Court should aid minority rights
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2006, 02:34:33 PM »
Racism is okay as long as it's in favor of people who aren't white or asian!

I hope he gets hit by a dump truck.

Blame the Warren court, not him.  Blame Eisenhower and FDR for appointing the jerks who stuck us with these problems. 

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Re: Breyer: Court should aid minority rights
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2006, 04:47:17 PM »

Quote
the Supreme Court must promote the political rights of minorities and look beyond the Constitution's text when necessary to ensure that "no one gets too powerful." ..."We're the boundary patrol," Breyer said, ... "It's a Constitution that protects a democratic system, basic liberties, a rule of law, a degree of equality, a division of powers, state, federal, so that no one gets too powerful," said Breyer, who often votes with a four-member liberal bloc of justices.

True.  Completely true and really beyond serious debate.  The devil is in the details, as always.

False.  Completely false.  Beyond belief anyone could say this.  Where in the USC does it say that the role od the Supreme Court is to protect the rights of minorities?  This is judicial activism at its very worst, a naked aggression against the democratic will by elitist snobs.
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Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Breyer: Court should aid minority rights
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2006, 06:42:38 PM »
Please tell me that that was sarcasm, Cosmoline.  You can't possibly believe all that, can you?

Cosmoline

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Re: Breyer: Court should aid minority rights
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2006, 06:45:17 PM »
Quote
Where in the USC does it say that the role od the Supreme Court is to protect the rights of minorities?

14th Amendment:

Quote
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

So if one group is being denied equal protection of the laws on a systematic basis, the court may be required to step in and quash those laws. 

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Breyer: Court should aid minority rights
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2006, 06:50:22 PM »
Equal protection means just that: equal.  It very definitely does not mean that some races should receive "promotion" or special considerations that are denied to all races.

Cosmoline

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Re: Breyer: Court should aid minority rights
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2006, 07:00:34 PM »
But where does protection end and promotion begin?  It's not as simple as you may think.  Esp. when you're having to operate under some very misguided precedent.

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Breyer: Court should aid minority rights
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2006, 07:17:27 PM »
Any use of race as an influencing factor would constitute promotion and inequality.  The government and public institutions should be colorblind. 

Of course, a colorblind government is never going to happen.  It's annoyingly difficult to advance a race agenda if the government is colorblind.

Cosmoline

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Re: Breyer: Court should aid minority rights
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2006, 08:25:26 PM »
That would be one way to do it, but that's not the way the courts or Congress opted to go.  So now there's a vast system at every level of government and the private sector, from local school districts to federal code, that use race as a factor.  While I might like it if the Nine decided to destroy all ten thousand such laws and regulations with one mighty blow, it rarely works like that. 

Headless Thompson Gunner

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Re: Breyer: Court should aid minority rights
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2006, 08:55:58 PM »
The fact that it's unlikely to change doesn't alter the fact that it should should.  Improper behavior in the past does not justify continued improper behavior in the future.  Existing unconstitutional social infrastructure does not argue in favor of continued institutionalized racism against the majority.

It may be true that Breyer is continuing in the same vein that previous justices and congresses started in decades past.  It may be true that Breyer is consistent with court precedent.  But if that precedent is in violation 14th (by virtue of denying equal protection to members of the caucasian race), then the court has an obligation to overturn precedent.

Breyer is wrong.  That other people are also wrong oughtn't change matters any.

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Re: Breyer: Court should aid minority rights
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2006, 11:14:41 PM »
We gunnies are far smarter then common folks!

Quote
"freedom of speech" are vague

Oh yah, it allows gunnuts to dis him on the www, it must be stopped!
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Re: Breyer: Court should aid minority rights
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2006, 02:34:53 AM »
Quote
Where in the USC does it say that the role od the Supreme Court is to protect the rights of minorities?

14th Amendment:

Quote
nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

So if one group is being denied equal protection of the laws on a systematic basis, the court may be required to step in and quash those laws. 
I think thats a misreading of the 14th.
The 14th does not reference the Supreme Court at all.  As for stepping in, judicial review itself is not a constitutionally granted power of the court.  Breyer's comments seem to imply that minorities (ethnic minorities?  religious minorities?  political minorities?  I dunno) simply by virtue of being the underdog deserve some kind of special protection from the political process.  Thus the court would insure that gays have "a right to marry" each other.  This regardless of the state ballot initiatives outlawing such unions.  that is why I descry judicial activism that overturns the will of the people.
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AmbulanceDriver

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Re: Breyer: Court should aid minority rights
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2006, 03:25:35 AM »
Ok.   Here's the actual text of the first section of the 14th amendment.  This is the apparently applicable section to our discussion:

 
Quote
Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

The specifically relevant section reads:  "No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States;  nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;  nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

This is the (in)famous equal protection clause.  What do I read as equal protection?  As a foreigner born in South America who is a naturalized citizen of this country, I read that it means that the state cannot say, "this law applies to this group of people, but not this other group".  THAT is what equal protection means.  I'm all for equality.  I *loathe* "affirmative action".  Personally, I think that we SHOULD throw out any type of system or law that has any race preference.  Government, and the application of the law, MUST be colorblind. 
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griz

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Re: Breyer: Court should aid minority rights
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2006, 04:19:49 AM »
Cosmoline, I started to argue each point of your post about his statements.  But it would quickly turn into arguments about the meaning of the word strictly and get confusing from there.

What I will say is that his statements and the context of that interview make it clear that he thinks the constitution is not relevant in todays modern world.  What other conclusion can you reach when he says that the original intent is meaningless since society is evolving?  Yes the job of the court is to interpret the law and apply it to todays complex world.  But when he says he you have to ignore the constitution to get a fair result, I think that violates his oath and he should be impeached.  Amend it, interpret it, but dont ignore the constitution while pretending you are following its clear meaning.
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