Author Topic: Gates Says U.S. Is Not Winning Iraq War  (Read 1527 times)

Ezekiel

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 819
  • Intellectual Masturbationist
Gates Says U.S. Is Not Winning Iraq War
« on: December 05, 2006, 06:12:04 AM »
No additional comment, merely posting for review.  Emphasis added, on occasion.

Zeke


---------------------------------------

Gates Says U.S. Is Not Winning Iraq War

Tuesday, December 05, 2006

By ROBERT BURNS, AP Military Writer

WASHINGTON  Robert Gates, the White House choice to be the next defense secretary, conceded Tuesday that the United States is losing the war in Iraq and warned that if that country is not stabilized in the next year or two it could lead to a "regional conflagration."

At the outset of his Senate confirmation hearing, Gates said he is open to new ideas about correcting the U.S. course in Iraq, which he said would be his highest priority if confirmed as expected.

Gates, 63, said he believes President Bush wants to see Iraq improve to the point where it can govern and defend itself, while seeking a new approach. "What we are now doing is not satisfactory," Gates said.

"In my view, all options are on the table, in terms of how we address this problem in Iraq," he added.

Asked point-blank by Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., whether the U.S. is winning in Iraq, Gates replied, "No, sir."

In a follow-up question, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., an advocate of increasing U.S. troop strength in Iraq, asked whether Gates believes the U.S. had too few troops at the outset of the war in 2003.

"I suspect in hindsight some of the folks in the administration would not make the same decisions they made," including the number of troops in Iraq to establish control after the overthrow of Saddam Hussein's regime, Gates said.

He also told Levin he believes a political solution in Iraq is required to end the violence.

The confirmation hearing comes amid intensifying pressure on Bush to take a new approach in Iraq, reflecting the outcome of the Nov. 7 elections that put Democrats back in control of both houses of Congress. Democrats and some Republicans have pressed Bush to begin withdrawing some of the 140,000 U.S. troops.

U.S. deaths in Iraq are approaching 2,900 and a relentless insurgency and escalating sectarian violence are raising questions about whether Iraq will devolve into all-out civil war, and whether Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's government can ever be effective.

"Our course over the next year or two will determine whether the American and Iraqi people and the next president of the United States will face a slowly but steadily improving situation in Iraq and in the region or will face the very real risk, and possible reality, of a regional conflagration," Gates told the Senate Armed Services Committee.
Zeke

Tallpine

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 23,172
  • Grumpy Old Grandpa
Re: Gates Says U.S. Is Not Winning Iraq War
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2006, 06:43:36 AM »
Quote
Robert Gates, the White House choice to be the next defense secretary, conceded Tuesday that the United States is losing the war in Iraq

Which is exactly what the "leftists" and "traitors" and "America haters" blah blah blah have been saying for several years now...  rolleyes

I suggest we pardon Saddam Hussein, and give Iraq back to him to see if he can fix it now.  They both deserve each other  laugh  grin
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Gates Says U.S. Is Not Winning Iraq War
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2006, 07:02:20 AM »
Quote
Robert Gates, the White House choice to be the next defense secretary, conceded Tuesday that the United States is losing the war in Iraq and...
This is typical media (mis)reporting, a blatant mischaracterization of what Gates said.  Gates stated that we are neither winning nor losing at this point.  It always amazes me that these people are so anxious to propagate the message that we've already lost this war.  Expect further mischaracterization and foaming at the mouth from the leftists.

The version of the article Ezekial posted seems to be missing some of its content.  The full version is below.  There was a thread a while back questioning whether reporters can read.  In some cases, it appears the answer is 'no'.  This author apparently can't even read his own words...


Gates says U.S. losing Iraq war

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/gates_pentagon

By ROBERT BURNS, AP Military Writer 15 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Robert Gates, the White House choice to be the next defense secretary, conceded Tuesday that the United States is not winning the war in
Iraq and warned that if that country is not stabilized in the next year or two it could lead to a "regional conflagration."

At the outset of his Senate confirmation hearing, Gates said he is open to new ideas about correcting the U.S. course in Iraq, which he said would be his highest priority if confirmed as expected.

Gates, 63, said he believes
President Bush wants to see Iraq improve to the point where it can govern and defend itself, while seeking a new approach. "What we are now doing is not satisfactory," Gates said.

"In my view, all options are on the table, in terms of how we address this problem in Iraq," he added.

Asked point-blank by Sen. Carl Levin (news, bio, voting record), D-Mich., whether the U.S. is winning in Iraq, Gates replied, "No, sir." He later said he believes the United States is neither winning nor losing, "at this point."

Much of the hearing's questioning focused on whether Gates would provide independent advice to Bush, and the former
CIA director assured the committee that he would not shirk from that duty.

He said he did not give up his position as president of Texas A&M University and return to Washington to "be a bump on a log." He said he would speak his mind to both the president and the Congress.

Sen. John McCain (news, bio, voting record), R-Ariz., a likely 2008 presidential candidate and an advocate of increasing U.S. troop strength in Iraq, asked whether Gates believes the U.S. had too few troops at the outset of the war in 2003.

"I suspect in hindsight some of the folks in the administration would not make the same decisions they made," including the number of troops in Iraq to establish control after the overthrow of
Saddam Hussein's regime, Gates said.

He also told Levin he believes a political solution in Iraq is required to end the violence.

The confirmation hearing came amid intensifying pressure on Bush to take a new approach in Iraq, reflecting the outcome of the Nov. 7 elections that put Democrats back in control of both houses of Congress. Democrats and some Republicans have pressed Bush to begin withdrawing some of the 140,000 U.S. troops.

U.S. deaths in Iraq are approaching 2,900 and a relentless insurgency and escalating sectarian violence are raising questions about whether Iraq will devolve into all-out civil war, and whether Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's government can ever be effective.

"Our course over the next year or two will determine whether the American and Iraqi people and the next president of the United States will face a slowly but steadily improving situation in Iraq and in the region or will face the very real risk, and possible reality, of a regional conflagration," Gates told the
Senate Armed Services Committee.

Bush has repeatedly rejected the idea of a quick U.S. withdrawal from Iraq and said he wants to keep U.S. forces there until Iraq is able to govern and defend itself without being a haven for terrorists.

"It seems to me that the United States is going to have to have some kind of presence in Iraq for a long time ... but it could be with a dramatically smaller number of U.S. forces than are there today," Gates said.

He said his biggest worry on Iraq is that if U.S. forces departed while the country was in chaos, then predominantly Sunni Arab countries in the region like Saudi Arabia and Turkey would intervene, further complicating the sectarian strife there.

"The Turks would not sit idly by if they saw Iraq beginning to fall apart," Gates said. Referring to the likelihood of
Iran and other countries stepping into the chaos, he added, "All of that could spread rather dramatically."

Meanwhile, Bush was getting an in-person preview Tuesday of a prestigious blue-ribbon panel's recommendations for a new way forward in Iraq. Former Secretary of State James A. Baker III, the Republican co-chairman of the bipartisan Iraq Study Group, was giving the president a heads up about "the direction of the report," White House press secretary Tony Snow said.

Snow said that Baker, however, was not leaving behind the full report or getting into too many specifics. The entire commission is to meet with Bush at 7 a.m. EDT Wednesday to do that, he said.

The White House sought to dampen expectations about the commission's long-awaited recommendations, expected to include calls for the U.S. to increase cooperation with rivals Iran and
Syria and to begin withdrawing combat brigades from Iraq. The president has resisted both ideas.

"Everybody seems to look at the Baker-Hamilton commission as a rebuff to the White House, and we don't look at it that way," Snow said. "If you're looking for a heavyweight battle, you're picking the wrong issue."

There has been little sign that Democrats, poised to take control of Congress in January, will block Gates, and a vote by the full Senate is expected by Friday.

Levin was among 31 senators who voted against Gates to become CIA chief in 1991. During that year's hearings, Gates faced accusations by CIA officials that he manipulated intelligence as a senior analyst in the 1980s in order to support White House policy.

Also, some doubted he had told all he knew about the Iran-Contra scandal, which erupted in 1986 after the Reagan administration secretly sold arms to Iran in hopes of freeing hostages in Lebanon, then used profits from the sales to help the Contra rebels in Nicaragua.

Sen. Robert Byrd (news, bio, voting record), D-W.Va., asked Gates his view on the wisdom of attacking either Syria or Iran, both of which have been accused by the administration of hurting U.S. interests in Iraq. Gates said he would not advocate attacking either Syria or Iran under current circumstances.

Byrd asked whether a U.S. attack on either Syria or Iran would worsen the violence in Iraq and lead to more U.S. casualties there.

"Yes, sir, I think that's very likely," Gates replied.

Addressing the problem of capturing or killing
Osama bin Laden, who is believed to be hiding in the Pakistan-
Afghanistan border area, Gates said it is important to keep bin Laden "on the run." It is particularly difficult to obtain reliable and timely intelligence on bin Laden's movements, he added.

"The way we'll catch bin Laden eventually, in my view, is that just as in the case of Saddam Hussein, one of his people will turn him in," Gates said.

Ezekiel

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 819
  • Intellectual Masturbationist
Re: Gates Says U.S. Is Not Winning Iraq War
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2006, 08:10:20 AM »
Merely a note: I assure you, I reported the full text I was offered.  There was no attempt to misrepresent the article.

Thanks for the research.
Zeke

Matthew Carberry

  • Formerly carebear
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,281
  • Fiat justitia, pereat mundus
Re: Gates Says U.S. Is Not Winning Iraq War
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2006, 08:11:48 AM »
God forbid the reporter do a little basic research on counter-insurgency and find that "not losing" is the only military requirement to win.  The political solution IS the solution.

I believe I learned that in a book on counter-insurgency, comparing Britain's effort in Malaysia with the American involvement in Vietnam, when I was twelve.

It's bad enough they don't just report facts, but then they mouth off about stuff they obviously have never researched beyond talking with their buddy Smitty.
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Gates Says U.S. Is Not Winning Iraq War
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2006, 04:21:32 PM »
Merely a note: I assure you, I reported the full text I was offered.  There was no attempt to misrepresent the article.

Thanks for the research.
I didn't mean to imply that you had.  Articles of this sort are often cut down and abridged before being posted online.  Normally critical details aren't omitted, but this time they were.  That's all I was trying to point out.

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: Gates Says U.S. Is Not Winning Iraq War
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2006, 03:26:53 AM »
If GWB wants a bureaucratic "don't upset the apple cart," conventional wisdom, cautious, seeks-any-excuse-for-inaction kinda guy, he found him in Gates.

We won't have to worry about the Pentagon Princes being pushed to do things they think outside their comfort zone and squealing about it to the NYT.

Gates would make a wonderful aide to someone with vision and a sense of mission.  He'll be easily dominated by the Pentagon Princes, Congressional overseers, and whomever else has a drive to accomplish their goals.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Ezekiel

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 819
  • Intellectual Masturbationist
Re: Gates Says U.S. Is Not Winning Iraq War
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2006, 04:23:04 AM »
Not an issue at all!  Smiley

Merely a note: I assure you, I reported the full text I was offered.  There was no attempt to misrepresent the article.

Thanks for the research.
I didn't mean to imply that you had.  Articles of this sort are often cut down and abridged before being posted online.  Normally critical details aren't omitted, but this time they were.  That's all I was trying to point out.
Zeke

LAK

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 915
Re: Gates Says U.S. Is Not Winning Iraq War
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2006, 02:45:49 AM »
Semantics. "We are neither winning nor losing at this point" means "we are not winning".

Arguing that "nor losing" changes that is very weak. All it does is say that things are not worsening from their present state.

But "neither winning ... " means effectively; not winning.

------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

Ezekiel

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 819
  • Intellectual Masturbationist
Re: Gates Says U.S. Is Not Winning Iraq War
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2006, 08:11:02 AM »
No arguments here.  Sad

Semantics. "We are neither winning nor losing at this point" means "we are not winning".

Arguing that "nor losing" changes that is very weak. All it does is say that things are not worsening from their present state.

But "neither winning ... " means effectively; not winning.

------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org
Zeke

Headless Thompson Gunner

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 8,517
Re: Gates Says U.S. Is Not Winning Iraq War
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2006, 08:25:55 AM »
If Gates says we're not losing, and the newspaper headline is "Gates says we're losing", you don't see a problem with this?   rolleyes

Ezekiel

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 819
  • Intellectual Masturbationist
Re: Gates Says U.S. Is Not Winning Iraq War
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2006, 09:56:52 AM »
Admittedly, not specifically the words he said.

He, also, did not say we are winning (because we are not).

I just think we all read the piece -- the FULL piece -- and make our own judgments.

Mine?  Iraq is a bad idea, poorly executed, with the remaining choices of "bad" or "worse."

If Gates says we're not losing, and the newspaper headline is "Gates says we're losing", you don't see a problem with this?   rolleyes
Zeke