Author Topic: Why Do Stupid Generals Survive?  (Read 5926 times)

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Why Do Stupid Generals Survive?
« on: May 07, 2011, 07:54:09 AM »
http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htlead/articles/20110503.aspx

Why Do Stupid Generals Survive?
May 3, 2011: So far this year, eight navy commanders have been relieved. This continues a trend, in which over two dozen commanders a year have been relieved a year for the last three years. This is a record number of reliefs. Since the end of the Cold War in 1991, the U.S. Navy has been experiencing a larger number of warship captains getting relieved from command. It's currently over five percent of ship captains a year. At the end of the Cold War, in the late 1980s, the rate was about 3-4 percent a year. So why has the relief rate gone up?
Actually, it's not just the navy. The other services are also seeing a lot more senior commanders getting the axe. There is growing concern that there is something wrong with the way senior commanders are selected. This means that too many unqualified officers are getting promoted to commands they cannot handle.

There appears to be a number of reasons for this, some of them new and unique, like changing views on what is acceptable behavior for senior officers. But most of the reliefs appeared to be traceable to the rating system (where commanders evaluate their subordinates each year). Seeking solutions, the navy queried commanders for new ideas for the evaluation system. One of the more interesting ones is to hold commanders responsible for their evaluations. Thus, when a commander was up for promotion, one of the items considered would be the accuracy of their past evaluations. After all, the higher your rank, the more important it is for you to pick the right people for promotion. The navy has also looked at how corporations handle this evaluation process, and discovered that it was common to poll subordinates for evaluations as well. The navy was aware that some commanders consult senior NCOs (chiefs) on evaluations. Chiefs have a lot of experience, and see officers a bit differently than more senior officers.

Another problem was a major modification, two decades ago, in these fitness reports, in which written comments on many aspects of an officer evaluation were changed to a 1-5 ranking system. The new method also forced raters to rank all their subordinates against each other. This was unfair to a bunch of high performing officers who happened to be serving together, and being rated by the same commander.

Even more worrisome is the fact that only a small percentage of reliefs have to do with professional failings (a collision or serious accident, failing a major inspection or just continued poor performance.) Most reliefs (over two-thirds) were, and still are, for adultery, drunkenness or theft. Or, in the case of one relieved captain, telling jokes that sailors enjoy, and some politicians don't.

With more women in the military, there have been more reliefs for, as the saying goes, "zipper failure." Typically, these reliefs include phrases pointing out that the disgraced officer, "acted in an unprofessional manner toward several subordinates" or "was inappropriate, improper and unduly familiar.” Such "familiarity" usually includes sex with subordinates, and a commander who is having zipper control problems often has other shortcomings as well. Senior commanders traditionally act prudently and relieve a commander who demonstrates a pattern of minor problems and who they "lack confidence in."

Most senior officers see the problem not of too many commanders being relieved, but too many unqualified officers getting command in the first place. Not every officer is qualified for a senior (ship, brigade, wing) command. Only a small percentage of commissioned officers get one. The competition for unit commands is pretty intense. This, despite the fact that officers know that, whatever goes wrong once you get it, the commander is responsible.

It's a hard slog for a new officer (rank O-1) to make it to a major command. For every hundred officers entering service, only about ten percent of them will make it to O-6 (colonel/captain) and get a major command (ship/brigade/wing). Officers who do well commanding a unit will often get to do it two or three times before they retire after about 30 years of service.

But with all this screening and winnowing, why are more unqualified officers getting to command large units and ships, and then getting relieved because they can't hack it? Some point to the growing popularity of "mentoring" by senior officers (that smaller percentage that makes it to general or admiral.) This sort of thing has been around since organized armed forces were invented, but has long been recognized as a dangerous way to select the next generation of senior leaders. While the military uses a board of officers to decide which officers get senior commands, the enthusiastic recommendation of one or more generals or admirals still counts. Perhaps it counts too much. While the military is increasingly quick to relieve any commander that screws up, up until that point, it is prudent not to offend any generals or admirals by implying that their judgment of "up and coming talent" is faulty. In the aftermath of these reliefs, it often becomes known that the relieved officer had a long record of problems. But because he (or, increasingly, she) was "blessed" by one or more superiors, these infractions were overlooked. The golden boys tend to be very personable and, well, look good. The military promotion system is organized to rise above such superficial characteristics, but apparently the power, and misuse, of mentoring, has increasingly corrupted the process.

And then there is the problem with the chiefs, history and zero tolerance. Asking the senior NCOs for their opinions, might provide some illumination about officer potential. Except that, over the last decade, officers have been less inclined to ask their men and women much. The "zero tolerance" atmosphere that has permeated the military since the end of the Cold War, has led officers to take direct control of supervisory duties the senior NCOs used to handle. The sergeants and chiefs have lost a lot of their influence, responsibility and power.

The problem is that, with "zero tolerance", one mistake can destroy a career. This was not the case in the past. Many of the outstanding admirals and generals of World War II would have never survived in today's military. These men often screwed up along the way, but their careers survived these incidents. That is no longer the case. It's also well to remember that, once World War II began, there was a massive removal of peacetime commanders from ships, and other senior commands. The peacetime evaluation system selected officers who were well qualified to command in peacetime, but not in wartime. This was recognized in the two years before the United States entered the war (with massive transfers and forced retirements of senior officers), and confirmed when so many more commanders had to be relieved when they proved to be incapable of handling their duties in actual combat.

Some American generals and admirals take comfort in the old observation that, in combat, it's usually not a matter of who is better, but who is worse. As bad as the American officer selections system is, most other nations are far worse. But that should not be used as an excuse to avoid problems that still exist. If a potential foe decides to clean out the incapable officers, they could quickly have a much more effective military. It’s happened before, and there's always the chance it will happen again, and not to America's advantage.

Avoid cliches like the plague!

seeker_two

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,922
  • In short, most intelligence is false.
Re: Why Do Stupid Generals Survive?
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2011, 08:55:02 AM »
It's like a PC-version of Stalin's purges of the Soviet military...and you saw how well the USSR did in the first couple of years of WWII....  :facepalm:
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

230RN

  • saw it coming.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 18,929
  • ...shall not be allowed.
Re: Why Do Stupid Generals Survive?
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2011, 10:27:47 AM »
(Non-military disclaimer)

Seems to me officers used to be elected by the fighting unit.  How universal was that and how did it work out?

WHATEVER YOUR DEFINITION OF "INFRINGE " IS, YOU SHOULDN'T BE DOING IT.

vaskidmark

  • National Anthem Snob
  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,799
  • WTF?
Re: Why Do Stupid Generals Survive?
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2011, 01:06:47 PM »
(Non-military disclaimer)

Seems to me officers used to be elected by the fighting unit.  How universal was that and how did it work out?



My memory is that commanders used to be the guys who paid for outfitting the regiment or brigade or company.  At least up until just around WWI, when the USA went to an increase in the size of the professional army and less reliance on militia/national guard.  WWII was a hodgepodge of administrators and warriors and political hacks and the poor shmuck who was late arriving at the meeting.  At least there were some decent upper-level generals who were willing to relieve a subordinate on the battlefield and send them home to either hold down a desk or retire to some farm.

During/after Korea the politics of leadership really took flight and for quite a while - even after McCarthyism had died down elsewhere - it did not pay to be a rock-ribbed Republican, a staunch Democrat, or heaven forbid an Independent.  The PC game was in full swing until the later part of Vietnam, when bean-counting and efficiency experts began running the military.

The lull between Vietnam and Grenada/Panama/the Contra scandal and the other stuff was another mixture of PC and loose cannons who should be kept in a glass cage with a sign "Break Only In Case Of War".  Somewhere after that the Air Force especially but the other services as well got caught up in the Christian Right thing.  Then came the pendulum swing back the other way to buddy-buddy with the troops and "we are all one big happy family."

IMHO there has not, for the last 10-15 years, been a guiding hand at the helm either wearing stars or chevrons.  The top NCO slot used to be powerful enough to walk into the top brass' office and say when things were FUBARed and what needed to be corrected.  It seems folks stopped doing that and went ROAD.

My solution?  Put me in charge!  I'll fix things.

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Re: Why Do Stupid Generals Survive?
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2011, 01:11:23 PM »
Good enough, you're in charge!  ;)
Avoid cliches like the plague!

RevDisk

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,633
    • RevDisk.net
Re: Why Do Stupid Generals Survive?
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2011, 02:12:49 PM »
(Non-military disclaimer)

Seems to me officers used to be elected by the fighting unit.  How universal was that and how did it work out?

Different time, different era.  Pretty common in militia or other less formal units.  Sometimes it worked, sometimes it did not.  A lot of Army officers feared that it would be an entirely populist decision, but most often, soldiers elected the folks most likely to keep them alive. 



One problem is that the brass have always lived in a different army than lower officers and enlisted.  They live in a world of politics, Potemkin villages and tradition.  One of the best things we could do to enhance our fighting capacity would be to raze West Point to the ground.  Granted, it's somewhat less of a problem now than 60 years ago when generals like Patton did pretty much flat out believe they were the lords and the soldiers were serfs.  Contrary to popular beliefs, we do have a much more proficient military than during WWII.  We have better logistics, training, integration, etc.  It needs to be a LOT better, but it has greatly improved.

There are a lot of ways we can improve our Officer Corps.  First is to scrap the zero tolerance for trivial  nonsense.  Any officer with "zipper problems" or theft/corruption/etc DOES need canned for obvious reasons.  Second, focus on how well an officer does his or her job, rather than politics.  Yea, that will never completely happen, but any improvements would be useful.  Third, and this will never happen, I think we'd have a better military if we canned service academies and other "direct" commissions except for specialists (docs, shrinks, etc).  I never understood the value of having officers that have never done what they were ordering.  Perhaps I am missing something, but the best officers I served under knew how to do as well as lead.  Not saying they should be turning a wrench or rebarreling an M16 as an officer. 

Basically, someone at the Joint Chiefs should read a copy of Starship Trooper.  Not saying it's entirely perfect or possible, but it'd be a better direction.
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

Hawkmoon

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 27,322
Re: Why Do Stupid Generals Survive?
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2011, 02:55:21 PM »
I second RevDisk. The absolute best CO I served under (back in Vietnam days) was a mustanger (former enlisted NCO who went to OCS and got a commission).
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
100% Politically Incorrect by Design

roo_ster

  • Kakistocracy--It's What's For Dinner.
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,225
  • Hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats
Re: Why Do Stupid Generals Survive?
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2011, 07:08:48 PM »
I read an article a while back (and maybe posted about it here) about how many of the most capable get out by O-3.  They tire of the bureaucratic/PC/tinpot dictator nonsense and get out.  It takes a while for the highly motivated and idealistic to sour on all the bullshit and realize that the most capable will likely not make it to the highest level.

Quote
Another problem was a major modification, two decades ago, in these fitness reports, in which written comments on many aspects of an officer evaluation were changed to a 1-5 ranking system. The new method also forced raters to rank all their subordinates against each other. This was unfair to a bunch of high performing officers who happened to be serving together, and being rated by the same commander.

This.  ^^^  In spades.  For enlisted, too.

I saw that at my unit.  When everyone is nearly psychotically motivated (or appears so) what more can one do to differentiate yourself?  Whenever we got rid of folks we considered unsuitable or not motivated enough, you could be assured that they'd be a superstud at their new unit and make rank faster than the rest of us. 
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Waitone

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,133
Re: Why Do Stupid Generals Survive?
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2011, 08:24:05 PM »
Looking to the civilian sector for clues on how to evaluate personnel is delusional under the best of circumstances.  Evaluations were tools of intimidation and gave only lip service to improving performance.
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds. It will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
- Charles Mackay, Scottish journalist, circa 1841

"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it." - John Lennon

HankB

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16,675
Re: Why Do Stupid Generals Survive?
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2011, 09:10:18 PM »
Many of the reasons cited for both promotion of unsuitable candidates and punitive action for ancillary issues exist in corporate America as well.

This is NOT a good thing . . .
Trump won in 2016. Democrats haven't been so offended since Republicans came along and freed their slaves.
Sometimes I wonder if the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it. - Mark Twain
Government is a broker in pillage, and every election is a sort of advance auction in stolen goods. - H.L. Mencken
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Re: Why Do Stupid Generals Survive?
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2011, 09:19:11 PM »
Quote
I read an article a while back (and maybe posted about it here) about how many of the most capable get out by O-3.  They tire of the bureaucratic/PC/tinpot dictator nonsense and get out.  It takes a while for the highly motivated and idealistic to sour on all the bull*expletive deleted* and realize that the most capable will likely not make it to the highest level
Same for E-4, in the Navy anyways. We had a saying, "The navy is ok, it's the people that suck."  ;)
Avoid cliches like the plague!

T.O.M.

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 6,414
Re: Why Do Stupid Generals Survive?
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2011, 12:27:19 PM »
The problem with the system is that the senior brass is made up of guys who spent their careers punching their tickets and not the guys who spent their careers doing the job the right way.  When I went to the Academy, it was with the advice of several good former NCO's and junior officers.  Simple "learn from the NCO's, listen to them, earn their respect."  So, that's what I did.  Passed on golf with the brass to go shoot, drink beer, and eat BBQ with the NCO's.  Learned how to be a real soldier, how to command in combat, to lead from the front.  Wanna see something funny?  Imagine the look on a Company CO's face when one of his platoon commanders shows up at an exercise with a belt of M-60 ammo.  Why shouldn't I help carry the load? 

As a result of being a soldier's officer, when the Clinton cuts started, I was promoted to O3, then was one of the first to be "offered a way out."  Some of the guys I was in Academy with are now wearing silver oak clusters and birds, and never spent a bit of time learning from real soldiers. they did all the right things, went to the right parties, kissed the right asses, and made careers of it.  Me?  Got a box of old gear the kids love to use for Scouts, the ability to shoot well, and phone numbers for about a dozen former NCO's who will take my calls.
No, I'm not mtnbkr.  ;)

a.k.a. "our resident Legal Smeagol."...thanks BryanP
"Anybody can give legal advice - but only licensed attorneys can sell it."...vaskidmark

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Re: Why Do Stupid Generals Survive?
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2011, 02:16:20 PM »
Yup, the nav had a serious issue with officers being buddy buddy with the enlisted. Never could understand it myself. Look at Chesty. Worked for him, good enough for me.  ;)
Avoid cliches like the plague!

Doggy Daddy

  • Poobah
  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 5,336
  • From the saner side of Las Vegas
Re: Why Do Stupid Generals Survive?
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2011, 02:21:10 PM »
Quote from: Chris
When I went to the Academy, it was with the advice of several good former NCO's and junior officers.  Simple "learn from the NCO's, listen to them, earn their respect."  So, that's what I did.  Passed on golf with the brass to go shoot, drink beer, and eat BBQ with the NCO's.

I would say that's common in many fields, not just the military.  Generations have been raised that way from watching TV.  Think of how many sitcoms from Dick Van Dyke, to The Flintstones and more had episodes that revolved around the boss coming for dinner and how that would affect the chances of success on the job.  People have grown up thinking that's the way it's supposed to be done.

DD
Would you exchange
a walk-on part in a war
for a lead role in a cage?
-P.F.

RevDisk

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12,633
    • RevDisk.net
Re: Why Do Stupid Generals Survive?
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2011, 04:27:13 PM »
I would say that's common in many fields, not just the military.  Generations have been raised that way from watching TV.  Think of how many sitcoms from Dick Van Dyke, to The Flintstones and more had episodes that revolved around the boss coming for dinner and how that would affect the chances of success on the job.  People have grown up thinking that's the way it's supposed to be done.

Eh, one of my former bosses, I and the rest of the team often had dinner at his place.  We argued that watching UFC was very important teambuilding exercise to learn troubleshooting and user interaction techniques.

 =D
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Re: Why Do Stupid Generals Survive?
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2011, 08:12:46 PM »

 user interaction techniques.
I like that!  :laugh:
Avoid cliches like the plague!

stevelyn

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1,130
Re: Why Do Stupid Generals Survive?
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2011, 10:23:14 PM »
It's a shame we lost David Hackworth. This is the exact thing he used to write about. Too bad there wasn't anyone to replace him.
Be careful that the toes you step on now aren't connected to the ass you have to kiss later.

Eat Moose. Wear Wolf.

RoadKingLarry

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,841
Re: Why Do Stupid Generals Survive?
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2011, 03:40:24 AM »
I guess I was a slow learner. It took me almost 12 years to fully realize how screwed up our military leadership was back in the '80's and 90s.
Most of the JOs we were getting were some ofhte stupidist people I've ever met. I had one Div-O with a Nuclear engineering degree (that mommy bought him)from MIT that he got prior to entering the USNA,  the guy couldn't have poured water out of a boot with directions on the heel.
He was a fast tracker and "destined for big things". As a JG he was a CF.
Closest I ever came to getting written up for disrespect  (with out actually getting written up for disrespect, but that's a different story) Was over that moron. We were on the surface transiting back into Norfolk and he was contact coordinator in the control room. I was secondary nav plot coordinator. my job was to supervise the RADAR operator, and Quartermaster on the secondary plot and generally make sure our electronic fixes (RADAR, GPS, NAVSAT, Inertial Nav) matched the visual fixes and vice versa. the JG routinely asked for bearing and range to various contacts he was observing through the periscope, which is perfectly correct and proper. Except he'd call to the RADAR operator to give him range and bearing to the "blue tanker" or the "big red yacht". :facepalm:
No amount of explaining or demonstration seemed to be able to make him understand the our back up Furuno "color" Radar didn't work that way.
 After almost 2 hours of that I kind of lost my cool a little and in hindsight I guess my asking him if he was F****** retarded loud enough that everyone in the control room could hear wasn't the best thing to do.
My Dept. Head was pretty well gonna hang me out to dry over it till the JG confirmed that he expected us to be able to see colors on the RADAR display and that he thought we were being insubordinate when we told him it didn't work that way.

That JG went on to command his very own Nuclear Powered Fast Attack Submarine.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Re: Why Do Stupid Generals Survive?
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2011, 05:55:09 AM »
Ensign taylor. graduated 5th in the Academy to become my division officer. In his greetinmg us he said "I know you guys are going to pull some things over on mt brecause I'm new but if I catch you..."

later that day, his first day, at 1600 I had chipped the reefer deck and swept it all up into a big pile. I didn't feel like picking it up so I was about to leave when down the ladder comes Mr Taylor. "Aren't you going to pick that pile up?"

Me, "Um, no sir, you see the metal on the deck is bare, if I leave the pile there the moisture will attack it instead of the bare metal deck overnight. So if I leave it there the deck will not rust as much overnight."

5th in his class at the academy,,, he bought it...  :laugh:
 
I wonder if I started a whole new tradition in the officers thinking if you left your rusty pile of crap on a bare metal deck overnight it's a good thing?  >:D
Avoid cliches like the plague!

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Re: Why Do Stupid Generals Survive?
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2011, 08:03:26 AM »
*and that was without missing a beat, which was key to the overall success of the ruse. It derived from the idea of sacrificail zincs so it had some basis in possibly being believable. Hell, it might even be true. I could think pretty fast in them days. Not so much anymore...  :lol:
Avoid cliches like the plague!

RoadKingLarry

  • friends
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 21,841
Re: Why Do Stupid Generals Survive?
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2011, 11:57:58 PM »
Another "genious grade" ossifer I had for a Div-O on my first boat. We were doing NATO ops in the So-Cal area traing with Canadian ASW ships. We were operating at PD and alternatly raisng each mast and lettin ghte Cnadians have a look at it. My Div-O was Od and sked me what the max speed was for raisng the RADAR mast was. I informed him that if we rasied the RADAR mast while were were still submerged it would bend.
He told me I was wrong, slowed to 3 knots and raised the RADAR mast. After explaining to the ASW guys what it was he ordered the COW to lower the mast.

We surfaced to determine why the RADAR mast would not fully lower and seat. It looked kind of like a banana.
Div-O tried to lay it on me. I had had my buddy the Quartermaster note in the deck log that the OD had asked about the mast and my reply. Had it not been for that it would likely have cost me a stripe.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

280plus

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 19,131
  • Ever get that sinking feeling?
Re: Why Do Stupid Generals Survive?
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2011, 06:15:24 AM »
"You bent my submarine!"  :mad:

 :lol:
Avoid cliches like the plague!

MechAg94

  • friend
  • Senior Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 33,835
Re: Why Do Stupid Generals Survive?
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2011, 11:18:50 AM »
Looking to the civilian sector for clues on how to evaluate personnel is delusional under the best of circumstances.  Evaluations were tools of intimidation and gave only lip service to improving performance.
My experience is that all depends on who the manager/boss is.  I've had bosses use it as an improvement discussion and I've had them use it as a way to dump on me. 
“It is much more important to kill bad bills than to pass good ones.”  ― Calvin Coolidge