This one looks bad

[Northwoods]

Anyone have a non-tinfoily link to a source for the SSRI connection to school shooters?

[Hawkmoon]

SSRI? 

[Northwoods]

Anti-depressants.

[HeroHog]

They affect different people in different ways. For me, Prozac WORKS. It greatly reduces my depression and helps with my anger issues (I get ticked quickly and go from 0 to 8-10 like a light switch). Now, it's not near as bad and I "get over it" quickly. Even when I'm ticked, 99.999% of the time it's that I am frustrated at life, myself or some doo-dad that won't do what it's supposed to/I want it to do. People sometimes piss me off with their stupidity but that's usually other "drivers." Most times, if no one is endangered, I just point and laugh at them.

I have never and would never think to grab a gun, knife, club and attack anyone. I HAVE broken offending objects and, before Prozac, punched the occasional wall, door, or broken a toe kicking a HEAVY 55 gal oil drum.    

[T.O.M.]

Did the media get this wrong? If so -- mistake, or "spin"?

https://nypost.com/2018/02/17/school-shooters-brother-committed-to-mental-facility/

The shooter's younger brother has been admitted to a mental health facility under Florida's Baker Act. This allows someone to be involunraily admitted for observation and evaluation. The article uses the term "committed," which would seem to be the legal trigger for making him a prohibited person. However, it has always been my understanding that admission for evaluation, such as under the Baker Act, is not "involuntarily committed" under the law as it pertains to disqualifying a person from firearms possession.

Would any of the resident legal eagles kindly chime in and clarify how this works?

Reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_Mental_Health_Act

http://www.dcf.state.fl.us/programs/samh/mentalhealth/laws/BakerActManual.pdf

It seems to me that what's happening is what the law actually refers to as an "involuntary examination." I don't think that's a, involuntary committment under the law (although it may lead to one).

Upon court order, a person can be held for evaluation  and observation to determine if a more lengthy order is warranted.  I don't do this kind of work, but my limited knowledge is that the term "commitment" refers to the lengthy stay, the short stay is just called an evaluation.

[MillCreek]

^^^Many people get around the involuntary commitment and subsequent legal issues by agreeing to voluntary treatment.  This is often used as a bargaining chip by the mental health facilities. 

[KD5NRH]

The SRO at my town's grammar school for a number of years was an older officer who must have weighed close to 300 pounds. When he wasn't being the SRO (and, yes, the D.A.R.E. officer) he was the department's photographer. He might have had some specialized firearms/tactical training, but I very much doubt it.

Breaching specialist.

[Perd Hapley]

Hey, Hawkmoon. It may be a commie rag, but I thought you might want to see someone else's mass shooting spread-sheet.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/


This article is about racist comments, etc, made by the Florida shooter.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/us/exclusive-school-shooter-instagram-group/index.html

Obviously, if CNN had found any pro-Trump comments from the guy, they would have focused on those for the next 100 years. Guess they didn't find any. Poor guys.

[bedlamite]

Hey, Hawkmoon. It may be a commie rag, but I thought you might want to see someone else's mass shooting spread-sheet.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/


This article is about racist comments, etc, made by the Florida shooter.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/16/us/exclusive-school-shooter-instagram-group/index.html

Obviously, if CNN had found any pro-Trump comments from the guy, they would have focused on those for the next 100 years. Guess they didn't find any. Poor guys.

The ROF connection to the shooter happens to be 4chan trolling the media again.

[Fly320s]

I’m not a lawyer.  This is how the ATF defines “comitted.”

...that the statutory term “committed to a mental institution” applies to involuntary inpatient or outpatient treatment.

From here: https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/agorder0001pdf/download

[Perd Hapley]

The ROF connection to the shooter happens to be 4chan trolling the media again.

The article I linked to wasn't about ROF.

[Hawkmoon]

Hey, Hawkmoon. It may be a commie rag, but I thought you might want to see someone else's mass shooting spread-sheet.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/

Thanks. There are a few on theirs that I don't have. I'll research them and see if they meet the criteria to be included.

How would you all define "mass shooting"? For example, I don't include any that are family/domestic disputes. If the Hatfields wipe out a bunch of McCoys, that's a feud, not a "mass shooting" as the term is generally taken to mean: a shooter (or shooters) targeting random victims who are killed or wounded because they happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, not because they have any direct relationship to the shooter. I also don't include gang shootouts.

Here's an article http://time.com/3432950/fbi-mass-shooting-report-misleading/ that says mass shootings have NOT been increasing.

But at least two prominent criminologists have taken issue with the FBI report’s findings. James Alan Fox, a Northeastern University criminal justice professor, and Grant Duwe, a director of research for the Minnesota Department of Corrections and author of a book on the history of mass murder in the U.S., are both known for being mass shooting contrarians. And both think the FBI numbers are misleading.

“These events are exceptionally rare and not necessarily on the increase,” Fox says.

One of the problems, they say, lies with the definition of “active shooter” and “mass shooter.” The FBI report analyzed “active shooter” incidents generally, a term defined by the federal government as an individual actively engaged in killing or attempting to kill others in a confined and populated area. (The FBI report modified that definition a bit to include multiple individuals as well as events in locations not considered “confined.”)

The problem in conflating the two terms, Fox argues, is that an active shooter doesn’t necessarily have to kill anyone. And in fact, only 64 incidents involving “active shooters” met the federal government’s definition of a “mass killing,” in which three or more people were murdered in a single incident. In 31 incidents identified by the FBI report, no one was killed.

“A majority of active shooters are not mass shooters,” Fox says. “A majority kill fewer than three.”

If active shooters are removed from the equation, Fox says, mass shootings in fact have not been rising over the last few decades, and both the number of incidents and the number of victims has remained relatively steady since the 1970s.

[Hawkmoon]

I’m not a lawyer.  This is how the ATF defines “comitted.”

From here: https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/agorder0001pdf/download

Correct. And the shooter's brother was not "committed" for treatment, he was involuntarily admitted for evaluation. Don't know if was intentional or an honest misunderstanding, but the media's report that the younger brother was just "committed" was not correct.

[Hawkmoon]

Hey, Hawkmoon. It may be a commie rag, but I thought you might want to see someone else's mass shooting spread-sheet.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/

Right off the top, the second one on their list is a question mark for my list. It was apparently a domestic dispute. Four people were killed, but should it be classified as a "mass shooting" and added to statistics that people should be afraid of? It was at a car wash -- at 3:00 a.m. Car washes aren't open for business at 3:00 a.m., so something else was going on. The shooter knew at least one of the victims.

I honestly don't know if I should count this one or not. Four people were killed, so it meets the FBI criteria for a "mass killing." And yet the average innocent person isn't parked behind a car wash in a pickup truck at 3:00 a.m., so the chances of someone else falling prey to a similar incident are astonishingly small.

Should I include it, or not?

[bedlamite]

It was at a car wash -- at 3:00 a.m. Car washes aren't open for business at 3:00 a.m.,

The sign out front says open 24 hrs:

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb=!1s0x88352cb0ddf99b31:0x814544a75e499fab!2m22!2m2!1i80!2i80!3m1!2i20!16m16!1b1!2m2!1m1!1e1!2m2!1m1!1e3!2m2!1m1!1e5!2m2!1m1!1e4!2m2!1m1!1e6!3m1!7e115!4s/maps/place/Ed%25E2%2580%2599s%2BCar%2BWash%2Bin%2BMelcroft,%2BPa/@40.0517957,-79.3891016,3a,75y,340.04h,90t/data%3D*213m4*211e1*213m2*211sJJEPnKJB5NLLDIAcBZ4Arw*212e0*214m2*213m1*211s0x88352cb0ddf99b31:0x814544a75e499fab!5sEd%E2%80%99s+Car+Wash+in+Melcroft,+Pa+-+Google+Search&imagekey=!1e2!2sJJEPnKJB5NLLDIAcBZ4Arw&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwio7NDM86_ZAhVBjK0KHXJ3B-UQpx8IigEwCg

[Hawkmoon]

The sign out front says open 24 hrs:

In that it's a self-serve, coin-operated type car wash, yes it's "open" 24 hours. But I doubt they have an attendant there at 3:00 a.m.

[Hawkmoon]

Interview with the family that the shooter was staying with. I really feel for them -- all they did was try to help a kid they thought was in need, and I'm sure they're going to be having a massive guilt trip for a long time. Once again, no good deed shall go unpunished.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-school-shooting-family-helped-nikolas-cruz-20180217-story.html

[MillCreek]

^^^I wonder when the first lawsuit against them will be filed.

[BobR]

^^^I wonder when the first lawsuit against them will be filed.

Tuesday morning, tomorrow is a federal holiday. 


bob

[erictank]

Tuesday morning, tomorrow is a federal holiday. 


bob

If that ain't the sad and sorry truth...

[Perd Hapley]

I thought we had a thread around here just for outrageous lies about the Florida Massacre, but I can't find it. So here:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/27394/fake-news-cnns-chris-cuomo-pushes-false-story-ben-shapiro

[Ben]

I thought we had a thread around here just for outrageous lies about the Florida Massacre, but I can't find it. So here:

https://www.dailywire.com/news/27394/fake-news-cnns-chris-cuomo-pushes-false-story-ben-shapiro

Currently right next to this one.  

http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=56759.0

[Perd Hapley]

Congress should pass a bill containing all the stuff the anti-gun-nuts have been calling for that’s already law and call it a victory.

https://ricochet.com/497158/trump-bump-stock-ban-good-bad-or-meh/
(quoted passage from comment section)
 

[BobR]

I had a question pop into my reptilian brain last night while watching the news. It showed some really nice busses getting ready to take the kids from the FL school to the capitol. I thought to my self, where did the money come from on the spur of the moment? Nice buses, overnight in Tallahassee. Probably not from the kids or the parents. I just wonder if following the money would end up back at Bloomberg or one of his groups. My wife and I think so.

Maybe somebody should try to follow this money and see just who is behind this push, as if we don't already know.

Just a random thought from last night.

bob

[Ben]

I had a question pop into my reptilian brain last night while watching the news. It showed some really nice busses getting ready to take the kids from the FL school to the capitol. I thought to my self, where did the money come from on the spur of the moment? Nice buses, overnight in Tallahassee. Probably not from the kids or the parents. I just wonder if following the money would end up back at Bloomberg or one of his groups. My wife and I think so.

Maybe somebody should try to follow this money and see just who is behind this push, as if we don't already know.

Just a random thought from last night.

bob

I saw some FL state rep had to fire one of his employees for suggesting some of the "kids" are shills. I'm pretty sure his statement was accurate. Which didn't change his being run over by a bus. We can't be interjecting truth and facts when we need to be emotional.