Author Topic: Freeway repair is racist according to the ACLU  (Read 3777 times)

brimic

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Freeway repair is racist according to the ACLU
« on: August 16, 2012, 10:19:25 AM »
http://www.masstransitmag.com/news/10758146/wi-groups-sue-to-block-reconstruction-of-the-zoo-interchange

The lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court in Madison, argues the project will "have the likely effect of exacerbating regional racial segregation, and it will have adverse environmental effects on air quality and water resources ... If the project proceeds, it will have major and significant impacts on the most racially segregated region in the United States."

This is probably the most crucial interchange in WI- its the hub that most trucking to and from the WI Fox Valley, Madison, and points south goes through to get to and from Milwaukee, not to mention the quarter million or so  commuters per day.
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makattak

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Re: Freeway repair is racist according to the ACLU
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2012, 10:47:34 AM »
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

AJ Dual

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Re: Freeway repair is racist according to the ACLU
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2012, 11:55:49 AM »
In reality, it's just a money shakedown.  With penny pinching Walker, and the GOP still solidly in control of the WI Assembly, no matter what happens in the Senate (likely they'll recapture the democratic 1 seat margin anyway), they're fishing in the courts for slush fund money to throw at the various parasitic "social development" .orgs and non-profits that make their living off the inner city.

One can sort of tell this is the case through the "throwing everything at the lawsuit including the kitchen sink", throwing in economics, racism, air quality etc. hoping to see what sticks. There is also a significant sour-grapes and butthurt factor behind the scenes over the fact that the GOP/suburban/right-wing talk-radio trifecta has been successful in blocking most every pie-in-the-sky light rail and high-speed rail project that's really just a private/public graft scheme for almost two decades now.  =D

If the ACLU and co. was REALLY concerned about bus routes and minority access to jobs (Milwaukee, and the metro just ain't THAT BIG, compared to other cities...) they'd be naming Mayor and two-time failed gubernatorial candidate Tom Barrett as co-defendant, because of his ill conceived plans to put a trolley system into downtown Milwaukee, that costs hundreds of millions, and serves exactly just one line when all that money could go to the MCTS and improve bus service for the poor...

makattak is right about the left trying desperately to game transportation and roads to "force" the middle and upper classes to remain within the city, but it's even deeper than that. They just LOVE trains, mainly because it's "Harrison Bergeron" on rails. Everyone is forced to be the SAME. Everyone riding the train is EQUAL. You go where the train tracks go, and nowhere else. There's no unfairness, like someone who's wealthy can buy a luxury car that's faster or more comfortable...

Whole thing is PITA for sure, but I don't see much actual fallout from this other than delays. While I the interchange and feeder interstates need to be improved, I use the interchange/freeway twice every day, and it works well enough for now. At it's worst, travel through it still infinitely better than "business as usual" in Chicago or some other larger city.
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brimic

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Re: Freeway repair is racist according to the ACLU
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2012, 12:05:30 PM »
Quote
While I the interchange and feeder interstates need to be improved, I use the interchange/freeway twice every day, and it works well enough for now. At it's worst, travel through it still infinitely better than "business as usual" in Chicago or some other larger city.

It works ok so long as you use it on off-peak hours and there is no Brewer game starting or getting out- I typically take the ghetto route down FDL ave which normally doesn't have any traffic issues.
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AJ Dual

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Re: Freeway repair is racist according to the ACLU
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2012, 12:09:56 PM »
It works ok so long as you use it on off-peak hours and there is no Brewer game starting or getting out- I typically take the ghetto route down FDL ave which normally doesn't have any traffic issues.

No. I'm talking Brewer games and State Fair too. And I drive it at peak times 8am and 5:30pm every day. At least it still moves.

I've been in enough Chicago and L.A. and D.C. and NYC traffic to appreciate what we have.  =D
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brimic

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Re: Freeway repair is racist according to the ACLU
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2012, 12:17:15 PM »
Well I should have worded it that it works splendidly in off-peak hours and ok during rush hour.  :laugh:
I don't have too many complaints, its just that I have faster, if not more interesting routes I can take home.

Speaking of which, I wish they could bulldoze nuke from orbit the whole 145/FDL ave corridor and put a full freeway spur in for us from the north.  :rofl:
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AJ Dual

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Re: Freeway repair is racist according to the ACLU
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2012, 12:21:51 PM »
Well I should have worded it that it works splendidly in off-peak hours and ok during rush hour.  :laugh:
I don't have too many complaints, its just that I have faster, if not more interesting routes I can take home.

I had a stint of IT work up in Brown Deer for awhile.  Best route there for me from West Allis was to cut over from the abortive US 41 spur by Miller Brewing north of the stadium, then cut east, and then take Sherman Blvd.

CCW makes that route a lot more appealing. But this was eight years ago. My father takes surface streets for much of his commute into/out of the Shorewood area where his office is. He finally got off his butt and got his DD-214 out of the bank safe-deposit box to go apply for his CCW too.
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longeyes

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Re: Freeway repair is racist according to the ACLU
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2012, 12:26:46 PM »
All signs of western civilization, as we know it, are "racist."
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brimic

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Re: Freeway repair is racist according to the ACLU
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2012, 12:42:05 PM »
Quote
I had a stint of IT work up in Brown Deer for awhile.  Best route there for me from West Allis was to cut over from the abortive US 41 spur by Miller Brewing north of the stadium, then cut east, and then take Sherman Blvd.

My wife worked at the Harley plant on Juneau ave a few years ago, she'd take FDL-->Sherman--->Lisbon--->35th--->Juneau.
When she first started taking that route she mentioned how nice Sherman looked and I was like  :facepalm:
I had to remind here that that I was diverted a few times around sherman and FDL because of shootings at the stop-and rob on the corner.
A few weeks later she was finally starting to notice the bad elements on her route.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Freeway repair is racist according to the ACLU
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2012, 12:52:04 PM »
I had to slow down for a couple of young cowboys  on horse back, out for a dawn ride this morning on my way home from work.
That grueling 2 mile (one way) commute is starting to get to me.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Freeway repair is racist according to the ACLU
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2012, 01:05:10 PM »
In my state it has been posited for decades that transportation projects (originally highways, but now some of the big highway contractors have branched into buildings as highway funds dry up) was a smokescreen for funneling contributions to certain politicians. I've seen nothing in recent years to suggest that this isn't still the case. In some instances, it is so blatant as to be nauseating, but ... nobody seems to notice, regardless of which party is currently in power.

There's a tremendous amount of what I call "engineering doublespeak" involved in transportation. Take a highway that was built in, say, 1950 for a design load of 50,000 vehicles per day. It's not uncommon to see articles claiming that older highways are carrying 180 percent of their capacity ... which, if you think about it, should be impossible. But it gets worse. In stereotypical "If you build it, they will come" fashion, transportation planners look at roads that are running at 200 percent and more of their so-called "capacity" and that are choked to a standstill at rush hour ... and they'll say with straight faces "The vehicle load has increased by 100 percent over the last decade so it will increase by anothr 100 percent over the next decade, therefore we have to expand it to handle the additional traffic."

Which completely ignores the reality that, if they DON'T expand it, since it is already at maximum real capacity, the vehicle load simply cannot possibly increase beyond gridlock, so if they don't expand it the vehicle count will NOT increase. What will happen is that the people who might have moved to that part of the state IF the road were to be expended ... won't move there, they'll move somewhere else.

The answer is trains, not more highways, more cars, and more trucks.
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Scout26

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Re: Freeway repair is racist according to the ACLU
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2012, 01:15:30 PM »
The answer is to privatize mass transit.  If it economically feasible, then you don't need .gov to order or subsidize it.


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brimic

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Re: Freeway repair is racist according to the ACLU
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2012, 01:34:10 PM »
Quote
The answer is to privatize mass transit.  If it economically feasible, then you don't need .gov to order or subsidize it.
FTW
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makattak

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Re: Freeway repair is racist according to the ACLU
« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2012, 01:36:22 PM »
The answer is trains, not more highways, more cars, and more trucks.

The only time the answer is trains is to the question "what is the most cost-effective means of moving freight across the country." Or perhaps "what is the best way to waste a lot of money on a project that will benefit my campaign contributors but have absolutely no benefit to my constituents because none of them will ride a vehicle that won't take them where they need to go, will not work on their schedule, and will leave them without a means of getting to their final destination when it stops?"
I wish the Ring had never come to me. I wish none of this had happened.

So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, Frodo, besides the will of evil. Bilbo was meant to find the Ring. In which case, you also were meant to have it. And that is an encouraging thought

brimic

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Re: Freeway repair is racist according to the ACLU
« Reply #14 on: August 16, 2012, 02:04:19 PM »
Quote
There's a tremendous amount of what I call "engineering doublespeak" involved in transportation. Take a highway that was built in, say, 1950 for a design load of 50,000 vehicles per day. It's not uncommon to see articles claiming that older highways are carrying 180 percent of their capacity ... which, if you think about it, should be impossible. But it gets worse. In stereotypical "If you build it, they will come" fashion, transportation planners look at roads that are running at 200 percent and more of their so-called "capacity" and that are choked to a standstill at rush hour ... and they'll say with straight faces "The vehicle load has increased by 100 percent over the last decade so it will increase by anothr 100 percent over the next decade, therefore we have to expand it to handle the additional traffic."

I see the same doublespeak and outright lies told by mass transit proponents in my area.
The latest was "we can build a high speed train from Milwaukee to Madison at 75-80 mph and it will pay for itself with Y number of people riding it a day with a fare of Z"

Real world numbers are actually Y/1000 people will actually ride the train every day, and Z x 10 fair would pay for it if they actually had Y number of people to start with.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: Freeway repair is racist according to the ACLU
« Reply #15 on: August 16, 2012, 02:26:04 PM »
The answer is to privatize mass transit.  If it economically feasible, then you don't need .gov to order or subsidize it.

The problem is, mass transit ISN'T economically feasible when it's bucking a stacked deck. In the heyday of railroads, passenger service was always a money drain, but the railroads subsidized it from the profits on freight hauling because it was a form of advertising. In my state, when I was a youngster the city buses in each city were owned and operated by private companies. They all went bankrupt and, one by one, they were absorbed by the state. Commuter train service is subsidized by the state. AMTRAK is heavily subsidized by the Feds.

What I think is part of the problem is that the Feds are competing against themselves. The throw money at highways, then they wonder why people don't ride trains and why goods are shipped by truck instead of by train. If they'd just STOP building new highways and encourage mass transportation and long-distance shipping by rail, the railroads' inherent efficiency would have a fair chance of manifesting.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Freeway repair is racist according to the ACLU
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2012, 02:42:50 PM »
I've heard of privatizing roads here (and in umpteen bazillion libertarian groups).

Problem is the lack of eminent domain in order to construct roads that don't spaghetti all over the place and actually travel in straight lines.

We already loathe the collusion of the State and Industry when using Eminent Domain... everyone remembers Kelo, right?

Well, if you have eminent domain being used to build roads that are operated as a private industry... can you possibly imagine any abuse of that system?  Hmm?   [popcorn]


I agree with Hawkmoon's observation, and it's a damned good one:  Government competes against itself with rail and road. 

However, I disagree strongly with his assertion that goobermint needs to "encourage" any behavior in the population.  Governments don't "encourage" anything.  They implement force to achieve their goals.  And when they don't achieve their goals, they increase force.  That's the only technique the State knows:  Use force to achieve objectives.
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brimic

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Re: Freeway repair is racist according to the ACLU
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2012, 02:44:13 PM »
Quote
What I think is part of the problem is that the Feds are competing against themselves. The throw money at highways, then they wonder why people don't ride trains and why goods are shipped by truck instead of by train. If they'd just STOP building new highways and encourage mass transportation and long-distance shipping by rail, the railroads' inherent efficiency would have a fair chance of manifesting.

Where do you think that money comes from?
Could it be the roughly quarter dollar tax on every gallon of fuel sold in the country?
Yes, the Federal government should absolutely positively stop funding highway projects and mass transit projects- its the main hostage they hold that allows them to completely ignore the 10th amendment.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Freeway repair is racist according to the ACLU
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2012, 03:55:30 PM »
I see the same doublespeak and outright lies told by mass transit proponents in my area.
The latest was "we can build a high speed train from Milwaukee to Madison at 75-80 mph and it will pay for itself with Y number of people riding it a day with a fare of Z"

Real world numbers are actually Y/1000 people will actually ride the train every day, and Z x 10 fair would pay for it if they actually had Y number of people to start with.

They think 80 mph is a high-speed train? Was it 1850 when they proposed this?
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brimic

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Re: Freeway repair is racist according to the ACLU
« Reply #19 on: August 16, 2012, 04:05:11 PM »
Quote
They think 80 mph is a high-speed train? Was it 1850 when they proposed this?

Forgot to mention, the estimated average speed (real world) would be around 60-65 mph due to the stops along the way and places where it had to slow down due to being in towns/villages in between.

Those of haters on the right have dubbed the project 'car speed rail' because it would run along rough the same path as an existing freeway, and wouldn't provide any advantages over driving but would provide many disadvantages. The left loves their choo choos and 19th century technology.
I won't even go into the subject of the electric trolley goin into a 10 block circle in Milwaukee that will cost hundreds of million$ and won't do anything that buses on the same route couldn't do better and CHEAPER.
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AZRedhawk44

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Re: Freeway repair is racist according to the ACLU
« Reply #20 on: August 16, 2012, 04:18:39 PM »
They like trains because they are LIMITED and RIGID.

They don't go anywhere except for where they are allowed to go.  Rails are very... inflexible.

And we wouldn't want the serfs having mobility, after all.

God forbid the Pensioners Army unwashed masses ever have freedom of movement to actually assemble and petition for a redress of grievances from the government.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Freeway repair is racist according to the ACLU
« Reply #21 on: August 16, 2012, 05:53:03 PM »
Wait a minute. Dog bites man isn't news. Shouldn't they wait, and write articles when the ACLU is not playing the race card?
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longeyes

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Re: Freeway repair is racist according to the ACLU
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2012, 12:56:18 PM »
The only time the answer is trains is to the question "what is the most cost-effective means of moving freight across the country." Or perhaps "what is the best way to waste a lot of money on a project that will benefit my campaign contributors but have absolutely no benefit to my constituents because none of them will ride a vehicle that won't take them where they need to go, will not work on their schedule, and will leave them without a means of getting to their final destination when it stops?"

Trains make great sense for freight, for efficient long-haul transportation of goods, but they won't replace the trucks that take the freight the rest of the way.

Interestingly, the Left has its model of pragmatic delivery of freight in the Third World, where energy's expensive; that is where you see people with animals slung over motorbikes.

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Scout26

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Re: Freeway repair is racist according to the ACLU
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2012, 03:12:30 PM »
If mass transit made economic sense, private investors/companies would be tripping over each other to make it happen.  But it doesn't so they won't. 

Here in Chicago, we have the Illinois tollway authority.  The bonds should have been paid off many years ago, as was promised when they were installed and turned into freeways.  However, once the policritters (of both parties) got their hands on it, it was a great place to put family and friends into well paying do-nothing jobs, that provided the opportunity to steal even more from the taxpayers.

We also have Metra.  The commuter rail.  Subsidized by a regional sales tax on those that don't use it.  Here we go:
Quote
Q: How is Metra funded?

A: Metra receives 55 percent of its funding from fares. The rest is from public subsidies, primarily a small regional transportation sales tax, which also helps to fund the CTA and Pace.

It should be 100% funded by it's users.  But because it's a .gov agency it's bloated and corrupt, (and filled with .gov union employees) therefore any cost savings are lost.   It should be privatized and left to stand or fall on it's on.  I bet it would it provide better service at a lower cost then it does now. 
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Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.