Author Topic: A win for freedom of speech. Supreme Court Win Today in Pleasant Grove, 9-0.  (Read 6175 times)

Desertdog

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A win for freedom of speech.


Supreme Court Win Today in Pleasant Grove, 9-0
http://aclj.org/TrialNotebook/Read.aspx?id=741
 

In a unanimous decision, the Supreme Court of the United States today issued a landmark First Amendment ruling clearing the way for governments to accept permanent monuments of their choosing in public parks.  The decision comes in the case of Pleasant Grove City v. Summum, a critical First Amendment case in which the American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ) represented the Utah city in a challenge to a display of the Ten Commandments in a city park.

 

“This decision represents a resounding victory for government speech,” said Jay Sekulow, ACLJ Chief Counsel who presented oral arguments before the Supreme Court on behalf of Pleasant Grove City, UT.  “The decision gives government the right to speak for itself and the ability to communicate on behalf of its citizens.  It’s a significant decision that clears the way for government to express its views and its history through the selection of monuments – including religious monuments and displays.  This decision also puts a bookend on the litigation surrounding the display of the Ten Commandments that’s been taking place for years across the country.  The critical question before the Court was, “Can a city decide which permanent, unattended monuments, if any, to install on city property?”  Without dissent, the Court said “Yes.”  We’re delighted that the Court upheld the important distinction between government speech and private speech.”

 

The ACLJ asked the high court to overturn a decision by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit that ordered Pleasant Grove City, UT, to accept and display a monument from a self-described church called Summum because the city displays a Ten Commandments monument donated by the Fraternal Order of Eagles.

 

In a 9-0 decision announced by Justice Samuel Alito, the Supreme Court concluded:  “In sum, we hold that the City’s decision to accept certain privately donated monuments while rejecting respondent’s is best viewed as a form of government speech.  As a result, the City’s decision is not subject to the Free Speech Clause, and the Court of Appeals erred in holding otherwise.  We therefore reverse.”

 

The high court concluded that the government has the right to speak for itself without violating the Constitution.  “The Free Speech Clause restricts government regulation of private speech; it does not regulate government speech . . . A government entity has the right to ‘speak for itself’ . . . . it is not easy to imagine how government could function if it lacked this freedom . . .  A government entity may exercise this same freedom to express its views when it receives assistance from private sources for the purpose of delivering a government-controlled message.”

 

The Court’s opinion is located here.  http://www.aclj.org/media/pdf/ACLJ_PleasantGroveUSSCDecision07-665.pdf

   

The ACLJ contended that the Tenth Circuit made a serious error confusing government speech with private speech.  In its briefs, the ACLJ argues that “a city’s selection of which items to display in a park – like its selection of decorations for government buildings – is government speech, and no private entity can claim a ‘Me too!’ right of access for its own preferred displays.”

 

The ACLJ’s written arguments, its opening and reply briefs, are posted online at www.aclj.org.  To read ACLJ's Summary of the opinion, click here.
 



AZRedhawk44

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I agree with this:

Quote
The ACLJ contended that the Tenth Circuit made a serious error confusing government speech with private speech.  In its briefs, the ACLJ argues that “a city’s selection of which items to display in a park – like its selection of decorations for government buildings – is government speech, and no private entity can claim a ‘Me too!’ right of access for its own preferred displays.”

But not so much with this:

Quote
The high court concluded that the government has the right to speak for itself without violating the Constitution.  “The Free Speech Clause restricts government regulation of private speech; it does not regulate government speech . . . A government entity has the right to ‘speak for itself’ . . . . it is not easy to imagine how government could function if it lacked this freedom . . .  A government entity may exercise this same freedom to express its views when it receives assistance from private sources for the purpose of delivering a government-controlled message.”

Particularly the bit about government having a "right to 'speak for itself'".  I still adhere to the concept of Government having no rights, but rather powers granted it by the People.  Rankles me to see the SCOTUS forget that little detail in a decision.

While allowing any 2-bit group to force itself into a park just because "some" sort of display is already there is obviously wrong, I don't much care for the idea the government can "choose" to endorse one angle while denying the other.  No abuse in this particular case, but just like the Patriot Act... a law should not be written for the good it "can" do, but rather focused around the evil that it most certainly "will" do in the hands of the wrong people.
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Matthew Carberry

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AZ,

I think in there is the presumption that "government speech" by definition reflects the chosen speech of the people because the government is representative of the people.
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

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RevDisk

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So, if my tax dollars are used to build a park, the government retains the right to include statues/monuments/etc of a particular religious nature of their choosing while denying that right to other religions?  Right...

"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

MicroBalrog

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In the meanwhile, Fincher's petition for cert was denied.
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taurusowner

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How did we ever come to accept that governments have Rights?

digitalandanalog

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Quote
How did we ever come to accept that governments have Rights?

When they told us that they did and the sheeple bought it hook, line and sinker.

ilbob

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I don't especially like the idea that government has any rights, but I can't see that there is any provision in the US Constitution that prohibits a government entity from speaking out.
bob

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MechAg94

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When they told us that they did and the sheeple bought it hook, line and sinker.
Apparently, we are all sheeple. 
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AZRedhawk44

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Quote
but I can't see that there is any provision in the US Constitution that prohibits a government entity from speaking out.

Doesn't work that way.

Governments are granted powers to accomplish specific tasks.  Aside from that they are prohibited from taking any action in any non-sanctioned direction via the 10th amendment and the intended philosophy behind our government.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
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I reject your authoritah!

MicroBalrog

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Isn't the government in question here a state government, thus not bound by te 10th Amendment?
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

ilbob

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Isn't the government in question here a state government, thus not bound by te 10th Amendment?
I believe that to be the case.

It does not really matter. some people hate religion and want to attack it no matter what the real issue is.
bob

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Matthew Carberry

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The "government", for good or bad, IS the people.

If we elect folks to represent us, in essence to speak for us, and they vote per the applicable controlling documents we have put in place to allow something, that is us speaking, not them.

If we disagree with how they have represented us, then we use those same applicable rules to either overturn their actions at the ballot box or through initiative (if allowed by said documents).

When we start thinking of our representatives as "them", even if we didn't vote for them, as opposed to "ours" we start losing the proper perspective on how the government is supposed to work.
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

MicroBalrog

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"Supposed" is the operating word here.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

Matthew Carberry

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"Supposed" is the operating word here.

Forget it, I'm on a roll.  =D
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."

RevDisk

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I believe that to be the case.

It does not really matter. some people hate religion and want to attack it no matter what the real issue is.

Or some of us religious folks get nervous when the government gets to pick favorites among the many religions practiced. 


Quote
When we start thinking of our representatives as "them", even if we didn't vote for them, as opposed to "ours" we start losing the proper perspective on how the government is supposed to work.

Well, some folks would say that thinking of our representatives as "them" does make us lose the perspective of how things are supposed to work, at the expense of learning how things actually work.  It begs the question of which is of the upmost importance.  Accuracy in one's perception of reality, or our ideals. 
"Rev, your picture is in my King James Bible, where Paul talks about "inventors of evil."  Yes, I know you'll take that as a compliment."  - Fistful, possibly highest compliment I've ever received.

Perd Hapley

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9-0?  Stunned. 
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Strings

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>It does not really matter. some people hate religion and want to attack it no matter what the real issue is.<

Honestly, why is it every time there's a question raised about a Christian display put up by a government entity, it's because "some people hate religion"?

Folks, Christianity is NOT everyone's "One True Way".

Now, for the sake of discussion, I'll say that I would find it hard to create a monument featuring the Ten Commandments that is actually "offensive". However, if other religions represented in the community wish to donate equally unoffensive monuments for display, the government has no business saying "no".

 By displaying one religious monument, you open the door to the display by all religions. Is that REALLY so hard to understand?
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AZRedhawk44

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This same decision could quite easily be interpreted as shutting the door on efforts here in AZ to get rid of our attrocious 9/11 "memorial" in front of our capitol building.

Despite the fact that most of AZ is offended by the leftist self-guilt tripe inscribed on it, it was put in place by "government."  Therefore it logically represents "the people" and we don't need to hear an alternate perspective on it or have any means to resolve disagreements with its message. ;/

Look... sometimes the wrong message gets put on something in government hands.  Having the means to address that problem is important.  A SCOTUS decision that says "government speech is infallible" does NOT help.

9-0?  Stunned. 

The reason for the 9-0 decision is purely because it re-enforces government power.  The Supremes are good at that.  Compare this against the "by the skin of your teeth" Heller decision.  No dissent at all?  How weird.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
--Lysander Spooner

I reject your authoritah!

Leatherneck

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Re: A win for freedom of speech. Supreme Court Win Today in Pleasant Grove, 9-0
« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2009, 07:54:06 PM »
Government has no rights.

People have rights.

This could become a nightmare.

TC
TC
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RoadKingLarry

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Is the term "rights" hte actual wording of the decision or is it the wording of the ACLJ summary?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Matthew Carberry

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This same decision could quite easily be interpreted as shutting the door on efforts here in AZ to get rid of our attrocious 9/11 "memorial" in front of our capitol building.

Despite the fact that most of AZ is offended by the leftist self-guilt tripe inscribed on it, it was put in place by "government."  Therefore it logically represents "the people" and we don't need to hear an alternate perspective on it or have any means to resolve disagreements with its message. ;/

Look... sometimes the wrong message gets put on something in government hands.  Having the means to address that problem is important.  A SCOTUS decision that says "government speech is infallible" does NOT help.

The reason for the 9-0 decision is purely because it re-enforces government power.  The Supremes are good at that.  Compare this against the "by the skin of your teeth" Heller decision.  No dissent at all?  How weird.

How does this decsion prevent you from debating the issue and electing new reps who will remove the offensive material?

Nothing in this makes any installation permanent, it simply removes the decision from the courts to the people and the legislature.

"Petition for redress" doesn't always equal "sue", sometimes it means throwing the bastards out and getting new ones in place who better represent you.

This actually ties into the private property discussion, and a couple other ongoing threads.

We as a society have taken the wrong lesson from the civil rights struggle in that we now attempt to direct policy by adjudication rather than legislation.  Legislation takes longer and isn't usually so sweeping all at once, but it is how the system is supposed to work. 

But we as a society on both sides want a immediate gratification ruling saying "we're right and you're wrong" rather than doing the hard work necessary to make legislative changes per the state and federal Constitutions.
"Not all unwise laws are unconstitutional laws, even where constitutional rights are potentially involved." - Eugene Volokh

"As for affecting your movement, your Rascal should be able to achieve the the same speeds no matter what holster rig you are wearing."