COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread

[dogmush]

The stay at home orders are tyranny and we've grossly over-reacted everywhere except the most dense urban areas. (Where they have merely "over-reacted" rather than grossly so.)

That may be understandable as we are dealing with something new and will get some things wrong, but someone needs to look at the numbers and realize that our hospitals, far from being overwhelmed, are being underutilized, which is also bad.

This is not a true statement based on the reports from people I know personally that are actually working in the hospitals. 

[Ron]

This is not a true statement based on the reports from people I know personally that are actually working in the hospitals.  

That's probably a very regional observation on both your parts.

[charby]

This is not a true statement based on the reports from people I know personally that are actually working in the hospitals. 

"Actual in the hospital workers" are telling how it really on Facebook. It's a dumpster fire when some one talks about what they perceive is going wrong how Covid-19 being handled and then a medical workers unloads on them. I know a lot of medical workers already have gag orders (the hospital in my town has for years) so they are risking their careers by talking about it.

[MechAg94]

Where are you hearing about full hospitals?  I would like to hear details if you have some.  

I realize a few states are being hit hard by this, but most are not.  

[MechAg94]

Full hospitals can't be faked. 

Considering one of the major news groups substituted Italian hospital footage in a story about US hospitals, yes, it can be faked (or at least attempted).   

[RocketMan]

Full hospitals can't be faked.  

Yes, they can.  CBS faked it twice with the same video from an Italian hospital, despite being called out on it the first time and calling it a mistake in editing.
Many hospitals across the country are laying off staff because the CV patient crunch never materialized, and all elective procedures had been cancelled.  No work for their staffs.
Tent hospitals in Seattle and other cities are being torn down after not handling a single CV patient.
We've been thoroughly scammed into destroying our economy.  The fallout from that will be far worse than what happens due to the CV.

[Jamisjockey]

Where are you hearing about full hospitals?  I would like to hear details if you have some.  

I realize a few states are being hit hard by this, but most are not.  

New york. New jersey.  Florida.  DC.  Wisconsin.  Detroit.  Parts of CA.  

And the whole point of isolation is to reduce the curve.  Gunnison, Co locked itself down 100% for 4 months during the Spanish Flu. They had almost no cases during that pandemic.  But I guess that means it wasn't a big deal, since it didn't hit them very hard...

[Jamisjockey]

Yes, they can.  CBS faked it twice with video from Italian hospitals, despite being called out on it the first time and calling it a mistake in editing.
Many hospitals across the country are laying off staff because the CV patient crunch never materialized, and all elective procedures had been cancelled.  No work for their staffs.
Tent hospitals in Seattle and other cities are being torn down after not handling a single CV patient.
We've been thoroughly scammed into destroying our economy.  The fallout from that will be far worse than what happens due to the CV.

You can find independent report after report of it outside the MSM.  But don't let me stop ya'll from following Rush Limbaugh's medical advice. 

[RocketMan]

You can find independent report after report of it outside the MSM.  But don't let me stop ya'll from following Rush Limbaugh's medical advice. 

Sorry, I don't take my medical advice from Rush Limbaugh.  Numerous reports of hospitals across the country laying off staff are available from "independent report after report of it outside the MSM."

[charby]

Where are you hearing about full hospitals?  I would like to hear details if you have some.  

I realize a few states are being hit hard by this, but most are not.  

Not all hospital rooms are set up for a extreme Covid-19 cases so with the ban on a lot of elective surgeries probably going to see empty beds even in the hard hit areas.

To the best of my knowledge we don't have any full hospitals in Iowa, now this may change since Covid-19 ripped through a Tyson pork kill plant in Columbus Junction, IA. Strategically this plant doesn't have any hospitals of any size within 30 minutes how the crow flies. There was 2 reported deaths from the plant yesterday, I am not sure about today.

https://www.kcrg.com/content/news/Tyson-Foods-says-2-dead-from-COVID-19-outbreak-at-Columbus-Junction-plant-569680951.html

I think the more rural states are going to be screwed in the coming weeks. Especially amongst the lower paying essential jobs since those folks tend to live in shared quarters in higher concentrations.

[charby]

Sorry, I don't take my medical advice from Rush Limbaugh.  Numerous reports of hospitals across the country laying off staff are available from "independent report after report of it outside the MSM."

Elective procedures are the bread and butter for hospitals, they help make payroll and pay for other things. Elective procedures require a bit of staff to make happen. A hospital isn't going to pay someone to sit on their ass and take up oxygen. Medicine isn't universal like some careers, everyone is highly specialized and can't jump from discipline to discipline. A family practice nurse isn't going to be sent to the ER or urgent care and expected to perform even close to the level of an experienced ER nurse. etc.

[Jamisjockey]

Not all hospital rooms are set up for a extreme Covid-19 cases so with the ban on a lot of elective surgeries probably going to see empty beds even in the hard hit areas.

To the best of my knowledge we don't have any full hospitals in Iowa, now this may change since Covid-19 ripped through a Tyson pork kill plant in Columbus Junction, IA. Strategically this plant doesn't have any hospitals of any size within 30 minutes how the crow flies. There was 2 reported deaths from the plant yesterday, I am not sure about today.

https://www.kcrg.com/content/news/Tyson-Foods-says-2-dead-from-COVID-19-outbreak-at-Columbus-Junction-plant-569680951.html

I think the more rural states are going to be screwed in the coming weeks. Especially amongst the lower paying essential jobs since those folks tend to live in shared quarters in higher concentrations.

Part of me, seeing this "open it back up" movement feels like *expletive deleted*ck it.  Let's see how many people we can kill off.  Let's see how bad this can get.
I mean, the Spanish Flu only had a 2.5% mortality rate, and the likely adjusted mortality rate for this is only about 1%.  1/100 people is no biggie if I can go to the movies.

[MechAg94]

The virus is already in the more rural countries within driving distance of Houston though in small numbers.  Not a lot of migrant labor in the places I know about.  The problem with predicting disaster is those areas are more spread out to start with.  

My county is adjacent to Harris County/Houston.  Still only about 153 cases and 3 deaths.  The deaths were all in Pearland I believe.  The number of cases has increased in the last couple weeks, but not by a lot.  

[MechAg94]

Part of me, seeing this "open it back up" movement feels like *expletive deleted*ck it.  Let's see how many people we can kill off.  Let's see how bad this can get.
I mean, the Spanish Flu only had a 2.5% mortality rate, and the likely adjusted mortality rate for this is only about 1%.  1/100 people is no biggie if I can go to the movies.

Seriously, if the virus is hitting hard in a state, don't open back up.  I think most places could open back up with some precautions basic social distancing practices.  If people are still keeping distance from others and using masks/gloves if needed, I think opening back up will work well.

I don't think it will be the end of the world or anything. 

[Ron]

Part of me, seeing this "open it back up" movement feels like *expletive deleted*ck it.  Let's see how many people we can kill off.  Let's see how bad this can get.
I mean, the Spanish Flu only had a 2.5% mortality rate, and the likely adjusted mortality rate for this is only about 1%.  1/100 people is no biggie if I can go to the movies.

I'm patiently waiting for widespread testing to take place before I bitch too much about the lock down. Easy for me as I've incurred no loss as of yet.

What we need is better information, instead they're coding all deaths with comorbidities as China virus deaths.  

Finding actual true information is like wading through a sewage treatment pond to get to a flower.

[makattak]

Part of me, seeing this "open it back up" movement feels like *expletive deleted*ck it.  Let's see how many people we can kill off.  Let's see how bad this can get.
I mean, the Spanish Flu only had a 2.5% mortality rate, and the likely adjusted mortality rate for this is only about 1%.  1/100 people is no biggie if I can go to the movies.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait....

I thought this was about "flattening the curve" so the hospitals don't get overwhelmed. Now it's about making sure no one gets the disease?

I thought the plan was that people were going to get the disease, but we want to slow the spread so that too many don't get it at once?

Is it about making sure that most people don't get the disease now? Because that wasn't what was explained to me.

I'll provide anecdata here. My town has two hospitals. There are 150 ICU beds in the larger of the two. (I'll say 50 at the other, but it's probably 100).

The news announced last week that we have 153 active cases in our area... plus 4-5 LARGE surrounding areas. (Which have additional hospitals and ICU beds.) That's total cases in an area with probably a dozen hospitals of varying size.

We have more ICU beds than CASES in this area. And the numbers are trending down now.

IF we think that the virus is gone after the shutdown, I can understand continuing the lockdown. That makes sense.

IF we think the virus will just spread again after we open things up, we need to open things up now to try to actually use the resources we have.

What is going to be better in 2 months while the virus stops spreading if it's going to just spread exponentially again?

I've been operating on the understanding that we don't think we can eradicate the virus by quarantining everyone. I got that from all the talk about "flattening the curve" rather than eradicating the disease.

Have I misunderstood the plan?

[zahc]

I also know people in podunk hospital who are losing hours because non-essential things being cancelled, and not enough COVID cases to make up the difference.

Just another failure of trying to centrally plan something.

[makattak]

Oh, and if we can open up the rest of the country, I'm fine with walling off DC, NY, Chicago, Detroit, LA, SF, Seattle and making them "no-go zones".

Those inside them are allowed to come out... to a quarantine for a month until they've shown they aren't infected.

Break quarantine? Back to the no-go zone for you.

[charby]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait....

I thought this was about "flattening the curve" so the hospitals don't get overwhelmed. Now it's about making sure no one gets the disease?

I thought the plan was that people were going to get the disease, but we want to slow the spread so that too many don't get it at once?

Is it about making sure that most people don't get the disease now? Because that wasn't what was explained to me.

I'll provide anecdata here. My town has two hospitals. There are 150 ICU beds in the larger of the two. (I'll say 50 at the other, but it's probably 100).

The news announced last week that we have 153 active cases in our area... plus 4-5 LARGE surrounding areas. (Which have additional hospitals and ICU beds.) That's total cases in an area with probably a dozen hospitals of varying size.

We have more ICU beds than CASES in this area. And the numbers are trending down now.

IF we think that the virus is gone after the shutdown, I can understand continuing the lockdown. That makes sense.

IF we think the virus will just spread again after we open things up, we need to open things up now to try to actually use the resources we have.

What is going to be better in 2 months while the virus stops spreading if it's going to just spread exponentially again?

I've been operating on the understanding that we don't think we can eradicate the virus by quarantining everyone. I got that from all the talk about "flattening the curve" rather than eradicating the disease.

Have I misunderstood the plan?

I keep hearing Iowa and MN governors taking about flatting the curve in their daily press reports. I get local TV stations that cover both states.

Also my local hospital that serves a regional area only has 47 ICU beds and 41 ventilators available as of Tuesday's press conference. Interesting my neurologist that prescribed my CPAP machine told me that CPAP machines are more valuable for Covid-19 cases then ventilators.

[Nick1911]

The hospitals here in KC are hurting.  Children's Mercy is looking at doing furloughs.

[Hawkmoon]

Sorry, I don't take my medical advice from Rush Limbaugh.  Numerous reports of hospitals across the country laying off staff are available from "independent report after report of it outside the MSM."

The question is, what staff are they laying off?

For example, the VA hospital where I go for most of my health care is basically not seeing patients except for emergencies. The routine health clinics are shut down and rescheduling non-essential appointments to July and later. Doctors and nurses can be repurposed to care for COVID-19 patients, but what do you do with personnel such as physical therapists? That's hands-on treatment by people who aren't trained to do things like give shots, monitor the vital signs machines, etc. Same with the chiropractors, dentists, eye doctors, and a bunch of other specialists. So if they don't have patients coming to the hospital and their work doesn't lend itself to teleconferencing ... whaddaya do with them? I received a call just this morning, rescheduling a dental appointment from May 27 to July 22.

I don't know about the other hospitals in the area vis-a-vis layoffs, but I know the Governor has issued a plea for retired doctors and nurses to report for duty, and he has issued an emergency order allowing doctors and nurses who are licensed in other states to work here without a license from our state. Theywouldn't do that unless they were short of manpower in critical care areas.

[DittoHead]

Germany is going to try reopening.

Germany will reopen many of its shops next Monday and some of its schools from May 4, as it joins other European countries in relaxing the draconian shutdown measures adopted last month to slow down the coronavirus pandemic.
Germany has managed to contain coronavirus more effectively than other European countries, partly thanks to a comprehensive testing regime that allowed authorities to identify and isolate those infected with the virus at an early stage. It has the capacity to run 650,000 tests a week.

 
We're currently at about 1 million tests per week.

[WLJ]

Who would have thunk criminals would do something like that?

LMPD to respond to burglar alarms again, as criminals are 'taking advantage' of pandemic
https://www.wdrb.com/news/lmpd-to-respond-to-burglar-alarms-again-as-criminals-are-taking-advantage-of-pandemic/article_3075e030-7ea7-11ea-ad34-cf6459e2e944.html

[Ben]

I haven't completely kept up with what is going on statewide in Idaho, other than I read a couple of weeks ago that Sun Valley medical services were being overwhelmed because of the high per capita cases due to the virus being brought in from elsewhere. I guess they were getting medical staff from the Twin Falls area to supplement. Otherwise I haven't heard of other rural areas being overrun. I know, only from word of mouth at the grocery store, that our one local case was a worker at the gas station, which sits on a busy (for here) highway that is an artery to surrounding states and gets a lot of semi traffic.

I don't know what's happening in Boise, other than I haven't heard anything about ICU beds being overrun. But in my view, I have never seen another city of Boise's size with as many freakin' newish looking hospitals and medical centers as they have (Boise metro, which would run through to Nampa).

An interesting thing here that I read this morning is that the demographic group with the most reported cases is the 18-29 year old group.

https://idahonews.com/news/coronavirus/idaho-wednesday-coronavirus-numbers-updated-april-15

[Hawkmoon]

I'll provide anecdata here. My town has two hospitals. There are 150 ICU beds in the larger of the two. (I'll say 50 at the other, but it's probably 100).

The news announced last week that we have 153 active cases in our area... plus 4-5 LARGE surrounding areas. (Which have additional hospitals and ICU beds.) That's total cases in an area with probably a dozen hospitals of varying size.

We have more ICU beds than CASES in this area. And the numbers are trending down now.

It's not as simple as number of ICU beds. Done properly, beds for infectious patients (such as COVID-19_ need to be in negative pressure rooms. The means the HVAC system exhausts more air from the room than it supplies, so any time the door is opened air comes into the room from the corridor rather than pushing the bugs out into the corridor.

ICU rooms for patients with compromised immune systems are just the opposite. For those patients, the goal is to keep the room as sterile as possible, so positive pressure is the name of the game. That means when the door is opened air goes out of the room rather than allowing bugs in the ambient air to enter the room.

I don't think it's all that easy (maybe not even possible) to just switch a positive pressure room to negative pressure.