Author Topic: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread  (Read 453307 times)

freakazoid

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3550 on: July 19, 2020, 05:19:56 AM »
What I've been reading is that "herd immunity" probably doesn't work at all for CV-19.

Doesn't this line of thought come from people coming back with positive cases after having already had it?
Aren't there reports that the tests aren't accurate?
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Hawkmoon

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3551 on: July 19, 2020, 08:16:59 AM »
Doesn't this line of thought come from people coming back with positive cases after having already had it?
Aren't there reports that the tests aren't accurate?

Don't know. COVID-19 is really uncharted territory, and probably more is unknown than is known. The bit about herd immunity not working and any immunity gained from infection only last a couple/few months has been pretty widely reported and discussed, but I wouldn't say the science is settled.
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cordex

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3552 on: July 19, 2020, 08:54:50 AM »
People sometimes also get chicken pox and other viral infections to which we can develop immunity multiple times.

fifth_column

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3553 on: July 19, 2020, 09:03:40 AM »
So...  why don't we find 10,000 healthy young volunteers, pay them big $$$ each to take the shot and then expose them to the virus?

Why are we dragging out this nightmare with this incredibly slow "testing" process?

The fastest a vaccine was created was four years. There is some incredibly complex science involved in getting the correct immune response.
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MillCreek

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3554 on: July 19, 2020, 10:16:24 AM »
Hospitals around here are hemorrhaging cash because of COVID.  The subsidies (whatever they end up being) don't even come close to covering the costs associated with shutting down large portions of the hospital and large swaths of available services to handle COVID.

Thinking that the "health care industry" is stretching this out to suck on sweet subsidy teats is tin foil level nonsense.  I promise they'd rather be back to charging folks for heart translants and ACL repairs so they could rehire the nurses and staff they've had to furlough.

Speaking as someone who actually works in healthcare at an executive level, the above is true dat.
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Ron

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3555 on: July 19, 2020, 10:17:35 AM »
Just a recap of contradictions ...

1-2 million will die from Covid-19! - Even with BS numbers it's barely over a 100k.

Hydroxychloroquine treatment isn't safe! - Hydroxychloroquine treatment has been used safely for decades as the most often used Malaria treatment.

Hydroxychloroquine treatment doesn't work! - Early use of Hydroxychloroquine treatment has been used all over the planet with positive results in combating Covid-19 infection.

The virus is not airborne – The virus is spread airborne!

Wearing a mask doesn't help – Wear a mask!

The virus survives and can be spread on surfaces – No cases of virus being spread from surfaces.

Stay inside! - Sunshine, fresh air and warm weather diminishes Corona-virus transmission.

Quarantine the public! - Historically during pandemics you quarantine the sick and most vulnerable.

No public gatherings, no Church, no Trump rallies, no beaches! - BLM, anti Trump and transgender protests are necessary!

Flatten the curve. - Lock-downs will continue until there is a vaccine!

We must do this to protect the most vulnerable. - We must allow infected individuals to be admitted into long term care facilities. (particularly in NY).

Six feet of social distance! - Three feet in Europe and none if you are a protester!

Believe the science! - Don't believe the scientists who disagree with the narrative!

Covid-19 infection destroys your sense of smell - Everyone must be infected because the smell of bullshit is overwhelming.
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zahc

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3556 on: July 19, 2020, 11:15:43 AM »
Hospitals around here are hemorrhaging cash because of COVID.  The subsidies (whatever they end up being) don't even come close to covering the costs associated with shutting down large portions of the hospital and large swaths of available services to handle COVID.

Thinking that the "health care industry" is stretching this out to suck on sweet subsidy teats is tin foil level nonsense.  I promise they'd rather be back to charging folks for heart translants and ACL repairs so they could rehire the nurses and staff they've had to furlough.

I don't know where the truth is between "hospitals are making money off COVID" and "hospitals are going broke off COVID". It seems more of them are going broke, but it seems like both could be true at the same time...they could be hurting because of shutting down profit centers, while also milking the COVID subsidies, or at least taking advantage of them, if they exist.

About milking the COVID subsidies, I have two problems with this idea. First, I hear wildly different numbers about whether there are COVID subsidies at all, or how much they are. I ask 5 different people and they all heard the hospitals get between $3000 and 15,000 per patient. So how much is it, and why is the information not easy to find?

Second, no conspiracy-thinking is needed to believe that hospitals would "milk" COVID subsidies by over-treating COVID. Because hospitals over-treat at every opportunity; that's what they do, they treat, and they make money by treating. I'm not being excessively negative, but if you go to the hospital with a problem, and they have capacity for you, do not be surprised if they treat you for it.

I just watched a joint web conference of 3 local hospital systems about the current COVID situation in Idaho, which is taking off. It's not really a second wave, for Idaho it looks like the first wave. It looks like every state is going to eventually look like Texas and Florida, so you better get used to it. I suspect we didn't do ourselves any favors by locking down during the "first wave"; now that we are getting our true first wave in late Summer there is all this angst about whether kids can go to school or not. If we took the hit in May when kids were off school anyway we would be over it by now. Way to delay the first wave until potentially winter-time.

Back to hospitals over-treating for COVID, the doctors in the web conference all admitted that, aside from anti-inflammatory or steroid drugs, and aside from experimental procedures like the plasma treatments which are only available to a few people now, there is nothing that they can do to treat COVID. In the next sentence, they complained about how they were running short on (non-ICU) beds for COVID patients. So, if there is nothing they can do to treat it, why are they filling up the hospital with COVID patients? Probably because they have capacity for them, and they can bill for the beds. After all they can't bill for much else right now. It's not cynical, it's what's going to happen. The silver lining is the COVID patients won't run around spreading in the community if they are sitting in the hospital. But this is the problem when we hear that hospitals are "90% full". They are full of people who don't need to be there. If COVID numbers start to get real bad, like real-pandemic instead of political-pandemic bad, they will stop accepting patients that don't need intensive care.

I work with a French company and I stay informed on what's going on in France. Early on, in France they stopped testing anyone but the most severe cases. I know multiple people who got COVID and none of them got tested. The authorities also said if you have COVID, do NOT go to the hospital. Do not even go to the hospital to be tested. Do not go to the hospital unless you have certain severe symptoms. Otherwise STAY AT HOME. There is no point in you going to the hospital for a disease with no treatment. Currently, France's official case-rate is less than 10/100,000, and their case-fatality rate is 17%! Currently in the US, the case-rate is 124/100,00 and case-fatality rate is less than 4%. Obviously this difference is because the progression of the disease in the US is in an earlier stage, and also because the US is testing tons of people and admitting anyone to the hospital if they have a cough ("might as well charge for what we are able to charge for, ain't making any money off anything else right now"). Meanwhile Europe and the US-haters in the US point to the "terrible US response to the pandemic" when actually we are doing very well in comparison. We are testing more and treating more, and more people are getting care. Of course there are a lot of people who "want it to look bad" for political, schadenfreude, or other reasons who either don't know the picture or just ignore it, not surprisingly.

Although COVID is bad and is going to kill a lot of people, in hindsight, so far, if I can make an early call, I would say our public response should probably have been the same as every other viral disease, ever...wash your hands, stay at home if you are sick, isolate yourself if you are vulnerable, and, I would legitimately add, wear a mask in public situations where you can't maintain physical distance. That's basically what Japan did.
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dogmush

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3557 on: July 19, 2020, 11:36:47 AM »

Back to hospitals over-treating for COVID, the doctors in the web conference all admitted that, aside from anti-inflammatory or steroid drugs, and aside from experimental procedures like the plasma treatments which are only available to a few people now, there is nothing that they can do to treat COVID. In the next sentence, they complained about how they were running short on (non-ICU) beds for COVID patients. So, if there is nothing they can do to treat it, why are they filling up the hospital with COVID patients? Probably because they have capacity for them, and they can bill for the beds. After all they can't bill for much else right now. It's not cynical, it's what's going to happen. The silver lining is the COVID patients won't run around spreading in the community if they are sitting in the hospital. But this is the problem when we hear that hospitals are "90% full". They are full of people who don't need to be there. If COVID numbers start to get real bad, like real-pandemic instead of political-pandemic bad, they will stop accepting patients that don't need intensive care.



I can only speak for the hospitals here in central FL that I have firsthand knowledge of, but that is not how we are doing it here.  First, we have huge billboards up stating don't go to the hospitals to get tested, they aren't testing centers.*  If you do go to the hospital to get tested, you will be billed for an ER visit, and if you didn't have emergent symptoms your insurance might not cover it.  There has been a fair amount of social media push covering this distinction as well.  If you do test positive for COVID and are sent to the hospital they are *very* quickly pushing you back home to quarantine unless you require supportive care or are high risk to go bad.  (supportive care generally means ICU care, although I have heard of a couple exceptions).  The average hospital admission for COVID is less than 24 hrs, before they push the patient back home with quarantine instructions.  They do make sure that you are able to stay quarantined (someone will drop off food, no in home old/immunocomprimised folks that can't be moved, etc).  But at least around here  we aren't filling up beds in the COVID wards with folks that could Netflix and Chill at home.  Again, YAMV (Your Area May Vary).

*Testing centers do exist in the area for folks that have confirmed exposure but no symptoms, or flu-like symptoms but aren't sure and don't need care.  But they are separate from hospitals. Anyone positive out of those centers are also given the "quarantine at home" protocol.  I know that confirmed positive cases are given to County Health officials as part of contact tracing, but I have no idea what quarantine enforcement looks like around here.

WLJ

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3558 on: July 19, 2020, 11:41:08 AM »
Posted in another forum I'm on, I trust the source

Quote
I personally know a lab tech that took 3 tests in a sterile room and opened and immediately sealed them without touching anything......drumroll....you guesser it.....3 positive tests that never touched a person.
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Ben

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3559 on: July 19, 2020, 02:38:18 PM »
Well, this mask thing is getting confusing. I had to do some shopping in Oregon today. Got to the Home Depot, where they had a big sign that stated, "Oregon law requires masks to be worn in public", so I put on my mask (I keep some of the Costco ones in both my vehicles now for just in case) and went in. Previously I had not worn a mask in HD, and I would say it was 50/50 for mask / non-mask wearers. Today it was around 90% mask wearers. If I had to stereotype the few people I saw with no masks,  I would say, "appliances on the porch, car on blocks on the front lawn, rednecks".

Next stop was down the street at the Tractor Supply. No sign, and another place where I hadn't worn a mask, but I put one on today and went in. Me and one of the employees were the only ones with masks on. None of the other employees or customers were wearing them. Maybe it was just me, but I felt like I was getting looks like I was a weirdo or something. On my way out, three guys came in wearing masks.

Anyway, interesting dynamic.

As zahc said, Idaho is suddenly spiking, with most cases being in three counties. It's big time spiking too. Previously, we were probably one of the ten lowest case states. Don't know where we are now, but it's hundreds of new cases a day, every day. My county is one of the three spiking, but it must all be on the side bordering Ada county (where Boise is, and pretty much in the Boise Metropolitan Statistical Area) because nobody around here is sick or worried about it.

I'll be curious to see how much of the spike is from protests, and by now maybe also 4th of July festivities. Also, I've been curious on if I've had the virus, but my insurance and medical facilities won't test me without life-threatening symptoms. They pretty much said, "Go to Walgreens".
"I'm a foolish old man that has been drawn into a wild goose chase by a harpy in trousers and a nincompoop."

Ron

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3560 on: July 19, 2020, 02:51:52 PM »
I'd be curious to know if I've had it also.

Work checks my temperature every day before I can start and asks a series of questions, one of which is "have you been tested for covid-19?".

Not sure what the reaction would be if I said yes.

With the crazy neurotic response my company has had so far I might be made to sit at home while I await results.

I guess I should ask what the protocol is in that scenario before I get checked out.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3561 on: July 19, 2020, 02:57:33 PM »
Question: "have you been tested for covid-19?"

Answer: That is protected HIPAA information and you have no "need to know".
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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Blakenzy

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3562 on: July 19, 2020, 04:28:32 PM »

Covid-19 infection destroys your sense of smell - Everyone must be infected because the smell of bullshit is overwhelming.

Nice one  =D
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RocketMan

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3563 on: July 19, 2020, 04:45:12 PM »
[snip]

About milking the COVID subsidies, I have two problems with this idea. First, I hear wildly different numbers about whether there are COVID subsidies at all, or how much they are. I ask 5 different people and they all heard the hospitals get between $3000 and 15,000 per patient. So how much is it, and why is the information not easy to find?

[snip]

Found the info with a quick googling.  Well, duckduckgo.  Here is the best link that came up in a quick search.  The information is from mid-April, so new information may be available by now.

If there really was intelligent life on other planets, we'd be sending them foreign aid.

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RoadKingLarry

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3564 on: July 19, 2020, 05:55:27 PM »
Between Dr and hospital the bill for my shoulder surgery last month was right at $120K before the insurance deductions whittled almost half of that away, so about $75K all said including Dr, hospital and anesthesiologist and a few other odds and ends.

According to Rocketman's link Oklahoma was getting $291K per COVID patient. I could see an incentive for less than scrupulous individuals to fudge the numbers. Particularly since they don't have the negotiated insurance prices to deal with.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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Pb

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3565 on: July 19, 2020, 09:36:09 PM »
They're in development,  not ready yet.  

A supposed SARS  vaccine once killed every lab animal it was tested on.    Trust me,  you WANT  it tested on lab critters ...

Moderna already has a vaccine being tested on humans.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-vaccine-moderna-final-phase-testing/

Apparently, they are giving it to the subjects and just sitting around waiting to see if they get infect by the virus by random chance.

They need to expose subjects to the virus.

I'm not the only one saying so:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/16/scientists-call-for-volunteers-to-be-exposed-to-the-coronavirus-to-test-vaccines.html

Oh, and Ron is right again... as usual.

Whoever the gov officials involved in in telling the public not to wear masks, and to put infected people in nursing homes should be fired, if not prosecuted.

Ben

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3566 on: July 19, 2020, 10:39:58 PM »
While rioters in Portland get to run wild, a couple in Kentucky get ankle monitors to keep them from leaving their home because the wife has the virus.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/kentucky-couple-house-arrest-ankle-monitors-coronavirus-quarantine-documents
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Hawkmoon

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3567 on: July 19, 2020, 11:59:19 PM »

Whoever the gov officials involved in in telling the public not to wear masks, and to put infected people in nursing homes should be fired, if not prosecuted.


I won't hold my breath waiting for Governor Cuomo to prosecute himself. He's the genius who put the CV-19 patients into nursing homes in NY state.
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TommyGunn

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3568 on: July 20, 2020, 12:04:27 AM »
Moderna already has a vaccine being tested on humans.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-vaccine-moderna-final-phase-testing/

Apparently, they are giving it to the subjects and just sitting around waiting to see if they get infect by the virus by random chance.

They need to expose subjects to the virus.

I'm not the only one saying so:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/16/scientists-call-for-volunteers-to-be-exposed-to-the-coronavirus-to-test-vaccines.html

Oh, and Ron is right again... as usual.

Whoever the gov officials involved in in telling the public not to wear masks, and to put infected people in nursing homes should be fired, if not prosecuted.


"Being  tested on humans" = "in development."   Sorta really the same thing if you think about it .....  ;)
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

TommyGunn

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3569 on: July 20, 2020, 12:10:29 AM »
While rioters in Portland get to run wild, a couple in Kentucky get ankle monitors to keep them from leaving their home because the wife has the virus.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/kentucky-couple-house-arrest-ankle-monitors-coronavirus-quarantine-documents

I think Kentucky ought to deliver their food and toilet paper and other necessities to their house free of charge if they pull that ▪○●□■♤♡◇♧☆☆☆⊙°%%€£¥₩₩  stier-scheiss on them.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2020, 10:58:41 AM by TommyGunn »
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

K Frame

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3570 on: July 20, 2020, 07:13:21 AM »
I won't hold my breath waiting for Governor Cuomo to prosecute himself. He's the genius who put the CV-19 patients into nursing homes in NY state.


And it's all OK in New York, because Fauchi said last week that the state did everything right to keep the virus in check.

Who needs death panels for the elderly when you have a plague and a Democrat in the governor's office.
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charby

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3571 on: July 20, 2020, 08:03:16 PM »
The dumbest thing I read today on Facebook, I wonder what meme or pundit educated this person. I'm going to guess that their last science class was as a HS sophomore and took "rocks for jocks" and "weather for communications  majors" in college. I really want to ask this Rhodes Scholar how has this worked out for HIV?

"Viruses run their course and are recognized as symbiotic organisms. They do not attempt to kill us, but to coexist in us. They generally mutate to less virulent strains so this completely makes sense. Any epidemiologist or member of the scientific community that refutes this is ignoring basic virology. It may be too early to have data, but a virus is a virus is a virus and we’ve studied the hell out of corona viruses."
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TommyGunn

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3572 on: July 20, 2020, 11:47:35 PM »
The dumbest thing I read today on Facebook, I wonder what meme or pundit educated this person. I'm going to guess that their last science class was as a HS sophomore and took "rocks for jocks" and "weather for communications  majors" in college. I really want to ask this Rhodes Scholar how has this worked out for HIV?

"Viruses run their course and are recognized as symbiotic organisms. They do not attempt to kill us, but to coexist in us. They generally mutate to less virulent strains so this completely makes sense. Any epidemiologist or member of the scientific community that refutes this is ignoring basic virology. It may be too early to have data, but a virus is a virus is a virus and we’ve studied the hell out of corona viruses."

Some of that really isn't wrong.  It is true that they tend to mutate to less virulent strains.  The Spanish Flu did this,  but HIV  hasn't.  The two are different viruses and mutating to the less virulent is Not a rule,  just a generality. 
They're not symbiotic though, they're parasitical.  The last sentence is meaningless.  We won't have studied the hell out of Corona viruses until we know everything about them.
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

K Frame

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3573 on: July 21, 2020, 10:03:43 AM »
"They do not attempt to kill us, but to coexist in us."

Killing us is just an added benefit...
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MechAg94

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #3574 on: July 21, 2020, 10:15:58 AM »
While rioters in Portland get to run wild, a couple in Kentucky get ankle monitors to keep them from leaving their home because the wife has the virus.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/kentucky-couple-house-arrest-ankle-monitors-coronavirus-quarantine-documents
So if they just cut the monitors off, would the police arrest them or just leave them in the house? 
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