Author Topic: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread  (Read 453639 times)

MechAg94

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #4375 on: November 22, 2020, 09:31:29 PM »
There really isn't any disease in recent history that compares to human coronavirus. TB can be cured, diphtheria can be cured, measles/mumps has a very effective vaccine.

Influenza is nothing like human coronavirus. Even a big influenza outbreak doesn't overwhelm hospitals anymore. Also doesn't have the same mortality rate or have potential chronic issues that follow an infection. Things will be better with Covid-19 when there is a proven vaccine.
charby, are there any numbers on how many people have chronic issues following infection and what those are? 

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charby

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #4376 on: November 22, 2020, 09:48:51 PM »
I didn't realize that the flu caused some US hospitals in recent times to be overwhelmed where they were full up in ER or even in the ICU/general wards. That didn't happen where I live, even though we have a large percentage of our population being elderly. I do remember in 2009 where there was teams created at my employer to handle different levels of the potential pandemic with H1N1. Where I was living, folks go the flu, but nothing was extra ordinary in my experiences where I lived and worked.

2018, I live now in the same place I live now. If anyone was close to you with the flu, you were just handed Tamiflu meds without even going to the Dr, a phone call got you a prescription. That is probably why nothing was overwhelmed in Iowa.

I do remember a couple older folks dying from pneumonia after getting the flu both times and going to their funerals.
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charby

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #4377 on: November 22, 2020, 09:51:40 PM »
About three days ago, in this very thread, I posted this:


I just wondered if anyone would point out that it's from 2018.

Sometimes people get caught up in one argument, and don't realize when someone makes a similar, but related, argument. This isn't about whether or not C-19 is a uniquely terrible disease. The question I'm asking is, if universal masking is a reasonable way to deal with this disease, why hasn't everyone been wearing masks all the time, to keep down other diseases? Diseases don't have to be deadly for people to take steps to avoid them.

Or, because it's commonly believed that working with small children is a good way to get and spread diseases, why haven't kindergarten and preschool teachers been wearing masks for the past hundred years?




I'm guessing the risk assessment of influenza wasn't great enough to warrant teachers wearing masks for most of those flu seasons. I do know that schools will shutdown here for a couple weeks if the # of students with influenza reaches a certain percentage, I don't know what that percentage is.
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charby

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #4378 on: November 22, 2020, 09:57:31 PM »
charby, are there any numbers on how many people have chronic issues following infection and what those are? 


Unfortunately it will probably be years before hard numbers. I wonder how many years it took to figure out heart issues form measles?

From the Mayo Clinic, Nov 17, 2020

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351

Quote
Organ damage caused by COVID-19

Although COVID-19 is seen as a disease that primarily affects the lungs, it can damage many other organs as well. This organ damage may increase the risk of long-term health problems. Organs that may be affected by COVID-19 include:

•Heart. Imaging tests taken months after recovery from COVID-19 have shown lasting damage to the heart muscle, even in people who experienced only mild COVID-19 symptoms. This may increase the risk of heart failure or other heart complications in the future.
•Lungs. The type of pneumonia often associated with COVID-19 can cause long-standing damage to the tiny air sacs (alveoli) in the lungs. The resulting scar tissue can lead to long-term breathing problems.
•Brain. Even in young people, COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis. COVID-19 may also increase the risk of developing Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease.


Blood clots and blood vessel problems



COVID-19 can make blood cells more likely to clump up and form clots. While large clots can cause heart attacks and strokes, much of the heart damage caused by COVID-19 is believed to stem from very small clots that block tiny blood vessels (capillaries) in the heart muscle.


Other parts of the body affected by blood clots include the lungs, legs, liver and kidneys. COVID-19 can also weaken blood vessels and cause them to leak, which contributes to potentially long-lasting problems with the liver and kidneys.


Problems with mood and fatigue



People who have severe symptoms of COVID-19 often have to be treated in a hospital's intensive care unit, with mechanical assistance such as ventilators to breathe. Simply surviving this experience can make a person more likely to later develop post-traumatic stress syndrome, depression and anxiety.


Because it's difficult to predict long-term outcomes from the new COVID-19 virus, scientists are looking at the long-term effects seen in related viruses, such as the virus that causes severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS).

Many people who have recovered from SARS have gone on to develop chronic fatigue syndrome, a complex disorder characterized by extreme fatigue that worsens with physical or mental activity, but doesn't improve with rest. The same may be true for people who have had COVID-19.


Many long-term COVID-19 effects still unknown



Much is still unknown about how COVID-19 will affect people over time. However, researchers recommend that doctors closely monitor people who have had COVID-19 to see how their organs are functioning after recovery.


Many large medical centers are opening specialized clinics to provide care for people who have persistent symptoms or related illnesses after they recover from COVID-19.

It's important to remember that most people who have COVID-19 recover quickly. But the potentially long-lasting problems from COVID-19 make it even more important to reduce the spread of the disease by following precautions such as wearing masks, avoiding crowds and keeping hands clean.
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charby

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #4379 on: November 22, 2020, 10:25:33 PM »
We are pretty darn close to this if you believe the reporting.  

I hope if it's true that it is wildly distributed. I hope the IA governor isn't in charge of distribution here, her Covid 19 testing program is a shitshow here to get tested. To get tested in my home county, you have to have your primary doctor order it for you, unfortunately by the time your Dr calls you back, you have to wait 2-3 days for your scheduled exam. I've been going 3 counties to the West where I can call before 9am and get a test done that afternoon.

If I was in charge, every county seat (multiple locations in larger towns) would have drive up testing, no appointment needed, open from 6am-11pm, seven days a week. I would have any many state government employees as possible temporality donning PPE and collecting samples, site could be overseen by a nurse/DR/etc.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #4380 on: November 22, 2020, 11:20:06 PM »
I'm guessing the risk assessment of influenza wasn't great enough to warrant teachers wearing masks for most of those flu seasons.

You're just assuming the authorities were right about masks then, and are right now. A disastrous mistake, as we have seen. Instead of talking vaguely of risk assessments, you can just say you don't have an answer.

Also, how high must the risk level be to require teachers to wear masks at school during flu season? Keep in mind, we're now required to believe that "just wearing a mask" is hardly a burden at all. For everyone. In every public place. And not just in flu season. "Just" wear a mask, right?
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Hawkmoon

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #4381 on: November 23, 2020, 12:08:29 AM »
Quote
Although COVID-19 is seen as a disease that primarily affects the lungs, it can damage many other organs as well. This organ damage may increase the risk of long-term health problems. Organs that may be affected by COVID-19 include:

•Heart. Imaging tests taken months after recovery from COVID-19 have shown lasting damage to the heart muscle, even in people who experienced only mild COVID-19 symptoms. This may increase the risk of heart failure or other heart complications in the future.
•Lungs. The type of pneumonia often associated with COVID-19 can cause long-standing damage to the tiny air sacs (alveoli) in the lungs. The resulting scar tissue can lead to long-term breathing problems.

This is the part that worries me. My heart is already severely compromised, so I don't need to add any more stressors to it. And two years ago I was hospitalized with a collapsed lung, and the docs told me that I probably shouldn't fly again -- so I also don't think something that can damage the lungs would be a good thing for me.

Consequently, I'm hiding out to the maximum extent possible. Some good friends just invited me to their Thanksgiving dinner, and I had to decline. Both parents work, the two sons are in the public school and their daughter is in collage in another state -- and will be coming home for Thanksgiving. There's just too much chance that one of them might be an asymptomatic carrier.
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Ben

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #4382 on: November 23, 2020, 08:58:10 AM »
Oh no! That bastard Donald Trump is out golfing while he has a sick child at home (and it's not Barron)!

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2020/11/23/msnbc-producer-questions-why-president-trump-golfed-while-don-jr-recovers-from-his-asymptomatic-case-of-covid-19/
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Ron

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #4383 on: November 23, 2020, 08:59:22 AM »
An article from May that turns out to be more correct than than all the fear mongering from official experts back then.

Quote
According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the current "best estimate" for the fatality rate among Americans with COVID-19 symptoms is 0.4 percent. The CDC also estimates that 35 percent of people infected by the COVID-19 virus never develop symptoms. Those numbers imply that the virus kills less than 0.3 percent of people infected by it—far lower than the infection fatality rates (IFRs) assumed by the alarming projections that drove the initial government response to the epidemic, including broad business closure and stay-at-home orders.

https://reason.com/2020/05/24/the-cdcs-new-best-estimate-implies-a-covid-19-infection-fatality-rate-below-0-3/

« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 09:14:09 AM by Ron »
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WLJ

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #4384 on: November 23, 2020, 09:08:43 AM »
Oh no! That bastard Donald Trump is out golfing while he has a sick child at home (and it's not Barron)!

https://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2020/11/23/msnbc-producer-questions-why-president-trump-golfed-while-don-jr-recovers-from-his-asymptomatic-case-of-covid-19/

Replace Trump with Obama or maybe even Biden and/or Harris in that and they would be gushing how brave and heroic he is being in the face of a deadly pandemic     
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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #4385 on: November 23, 2020, 09:11:45 AM »
Quote
Media messaging in the US is already ramping up expectations of a "second wave."

The survival rate of COVID-19 has been upgraded since May to 99.8% of infections. This comes close to ordinary flu, the survival rate of which is 99.9%. Although COVID can have serious after-effects, so can flu or any respiratory illness. The present survival rate is far higher than initial grim guesses in March and April, cited by Dr. Anthony Fauci, of 94%, or 20 to 30 times deadlier. The Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) value accepted by Yeadon et al in the paper is .26%. The survival rate of a disease is 100% minus the IFR.

Dr. Yeadon pointed out that the "novel" COVID-19 contagion is novel only in the sense that it is a new type of coronavirus. But, he said, there are presently four strains which circulate freely throughout the population, most often linked to the common cold.

https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/pandemic-over-former-pfizer-chief-science-officer-says-second-wave-faked-false-positive
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

K Frame

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #4386 on: November 23, 2020, 02:15:42 PM »
2020 is so ridiculous that there is an Emmy award for virus response, and it's going to Cuomo.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/gov-andrew-cuomo-to-receive-emmy-award-for-his-leadership-during-pandemic



What's he receiving for murdering all of the elderly in the nursing homes by forcing 'Rona patients into those same nursing homes?

A Nobel Prize in medicine?
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WLJ

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #4387 on: November 23, 2020, 02:28:32 PM »
What's he receiving for murdering all of the elderly in the nursing homes by forcing 'Rona patients into those same nursing homes?

A Nobel Prize in medicine?

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Jim147

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #4388 on: November 23, 2020, 02:45:32 PM »
Award for most kills.
Sometimes we carry more weight then we owe.
And sometimes goes on and on and on.

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Perd Hapley

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charby

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #4390 on: November 23, 2020, 04:26:43 PM »
You're just assuming the authorities were right about masks then, and are right now. A disastrous mistake, as we have seen. Instead of talking vaguely of risk assessments, you can just say you don't have an answer.

Also, how high must the risk level be to require teachers to wear masks at school during flu season? Keep in mind, we're now required to believe that "just wearing a mask" is hardly a burden at all. For everyone. In every public place. And not just in flu season. "Just" wear a mask, right?

I've had about 300 miles on the road to think about this. Could it be as simple as most folks who have influenza do show symptoms and there is a sizable percentage of folks positive with Covid (can spread the disease) are asymptomatic? Also they way it understood that the primary mission of a mask is to prevent the wearer from spreading the virus if they are positive (especially asymptomatic) and a very minor secondary is preventing the wearing from catching the virus.

I hate wearing a mask, period and I can't wait for a vaccine (or  sizeable) decrease in the infection rate so I don't need to wear one when I go into any businesses.
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RocketMan

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #4391 on: November 23, 2020, 04:30:47 PM »
I hate wearing a mask, period and I can't wait for a vaccine (or  sizeable) decrease in the infection rate so I don't need to wear one when I go into any businesses.

Dr. Fauci and others have already stated that mask mandates will continue after the vaccines are widely administered.  The end of 2021 is the current thinking.  Personally, I think mask mandates will continue for as long as TPTB think they can get away with it.
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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #4392 on: November 23, 2020, 05:01:18 PM »
Award for most kills.

Yup.  Intentionally killed the most old people by shipping Rona patients straight into their nursing homes instead of the provided field hospitals.  Even tried sending Rona patients to the Navy hospital ship even though the ship explicitly told them they were a sterile facility for only non-rona cases.

Never used the army hospitals, never filled their own hospitals, but they sure as hell managed to send infectious patients to places they were told not to, and where they had no reason to, and were the worst places possible.

kgbsquirrel

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #4393 on: November 23, 2020, 05:03:11 PM »
Dr. Fauci and others have already stated that mask mandates will continue after the vaccines are widely administered.  The end of 2021 is the current thinking.  Personally, I think mask mandates will continue for as long as TPTB think they can get away with it.

Depersoning of the general population.  You are now literally a faceless drone.

MillCreek

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #4394 on: November 23, 2020, 09:16:52 PM »
A COVID adaptation that I can support: I can now renew my drivers license online or via postal mail.  No more going to the DOL, at least for this renewal.  I would not at all mind if this was permanent.  You have to sign an attestation that you still have acceptable vision and no medical condition or medications that would impair your ability to drive a car.   I had read about this earlier this year, since there was concern about the vision test.  The DOL released data showing that 99.6% of all driver license applicants passed the vision test, so it was decided to drop that requirement, at least in the times of COVID.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

MillCreek

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #4395 on: November 23, 2020, 09:19:52 PM »
This was published in the Spokane newspaper and reprinted throughout the state in other newspapers:

OPINION
 
GUEST OPINION
Stephen Malkoski, MD/PHD: Please do your part to protect your loved one – and us – during the holidays
Sun., Nov. 22, 2020

By Stephen Malkoski
Providence Sacred Heart & Family Hospitals
I am a critical care physician and the medical director for the Providence Sacred Heart and Holy Family ICUs. In this capacity, I help manage about two-thirds of the critical care beds in Spokane. We’ve been caring for COVID-19 patients since the earliest days of the pandemic when we accepted some of the minimally symptomatic patients from the Diamond Princess cruise ship. Today this seems almost quaint as these patients were basically well and would never be hospitalized now. Since the start of the pandemic, I have cared for dozens of COVID-19 patients, most of whom have ultimately died because once you get sick enough to need critical care from COVID-19, the outcomes are poor.

I’ll be working in the Sacred Heart ICU the last two weeks of December and will witness firsthand the consequences of people’s Thanksgiving decisions, and I need to share what this will look like. I can speak to this with a high degree of confidence because the course of COVID-19 is relatively predictable.

First, we will try to support this surge of coronavirus patients without resorting to mechanical ventilation, but inevitably many of these patients will fail this approach. We will have a series of heart-wrenching conversations with the patients and their families in the days leading up to this. Some patients will decide not to go on the ventilator as they fail and they will die. The rest will go on a ventilator. I will intubate some of them myself; my partners will intubate the others. I will then watch our team do everything possible to keep them alive. We will treat them with dexamethasone, remdesivir, prone positioning, paralysis and antibiotics for weeks. A few of the younger patients will make it off the ventilator. Most of them will be profoundly weak and face a long recovery.

Young people do better than the elderly simply because they can better tolerate two or three weeks of critical care in a way that the elderly just can’t.

Unfortunately, most of the patients who need the ventilator will not survive and after a few weeks, probably around Christmas, they will start to succumb. We will have to have lots of difficult and painful discussions with their families over the phone because COVID-19 patients can’t have visitors.

Our palliative care team will help us with these conversations because we don’t have the time for all of them, and each of these conversations takes away a little bit of your soul and you can only give away so much of your soul each day. Our nurses will use Zoom and FaceTime so families can see their loved ones sedated and intubated.

Finally, we will decide to transition to comfort care and remove the ventilator. At this point, two visitors will be allowed to come see the patient, if they are not also COVID-positive or too afraid to come to the hospital. I’ll watch the visitors struggle to put on the same PPE that we put on dozens of times a day. The family will stand around the bed crying and watching their loved ones struggle to breathe as our nurses make them comfortable and dignified as they die. This will be repeated several times a day as our team labors to provide an avalanche of patients with the highest quality and most compassionate care possible.

All of this happens against the backdrop of our own lives which are, of course, impacted by COVID-19 just like everyone else’s. My college sons will quarantine in our basement and wear masks when they come home. My wife can’t visit her recently widowed mother in Canada because the border is closed. One nurse’s baby shower is now a “drive-by” event. Another nurse’s son is missing all the events of his senior year of high school. Everyone’s kids are home-schooling. A respiratory therapist worries about bringing COVID-19 to his child with congenital heart disease.

And yet, every day we come to work and care for these patients.

The U.S. has had more than 250,000 COVID-19 deaths; this is more than the entire population of Spokane. A recent study showed that our pandemic response is the worst on the planet.

This means that about half of the patients that we’ve watched die didn’t have to die.

I challenge anyone to explain why I shouldn’t be viscerally angry about this.

The University of Washington Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation model predicts that our state will exceed our ICU bed capacity in December.

I won’t reiterate what people need to do to prevent the spread of coronavirus over Thanksgiving because everyone knows exactly what this is.

On behalf of my partners, our nurses, our respiratory therapists, and all our team members, I implore you to do your part to protect yourself, your loved ones, your community and us during the upcoming holidays.

Stephen Malkoski, M.D./Ph.D., Medical Director for Critical Care, Providence Sacred Heart & Holy Family Hospitals, Spokane, and Sound Physicians Critical Care

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MillCreek
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

Ben

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #4396 on: November 23, 2020, 09:22:16 PM »
A COVID adaptation that I can support: I can now renew my drivers license online or via postal mail.  No more going to the DOL, at least for this renewal.  I would not at all mind if this was permanent.  You have to sign an attestation that you still have acceptable vision and no medical condition or medications that would impair your ability to drive a car.   I had read about this earlier this year, since there was concern about the vision test.  The DOL released data showing that 99.6% of all driver license applicants passed the vision test, so it was decided to drop that requirement, at least in the times of COVID.

Interesting. I got my initial Idaho license at 58 on the 8 year plan, because after expiration + 60 years of age we have to go in for the vision test and a 4 year license only. I kinda figure a lot of people that use glasses for the vision test at the DMV don't then wear them driving.
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Ron

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #4397 on: November 23, 2020, 09:45:23 PM »
Quote
The U.S. has had more than 250,000 COVID-19 deaths; this is more than the entire population of Spokane. A recent study showed that our pandemic response is the worst on the planet.

This means that about half of the patients that we’ve watched die didn’t have to die.

The numbers are garbage as we know (garbage in, garbage out) because they admit it, dying with covid is coded dying from covid. Not to mention all the other ambiguities like folks getting coded covid deaths not even being tested, the super sensitivity of common tests popping positive where there is no replicating virus etc. 

Pulling the "half the patients didn't have to die" stat out of his a** shows he is full of sh*t.



For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

MillCreek

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #4398 on: November 23, 2020, 09:54:15 PM »
^^^Ron, remind us again of your medical degrees, board certifications and experience in critical care?  I must have missed that part, and it allows us to give your opinions appropriate weight.
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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
You are one lousy risk manager.

Ron

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #4399 on: November 23, 2020, 10:15:04 PM »
^^^Ron, remind us again of your medical degrees, board certifications and experience in critical care?  I must have missed that part, and it allows us to give your opinions appropriate weight.

Remind me why I have to ignore what is front of our faces, mountains of lies in the form of "official" numbers from the beginning, and accept a bullshit stat like half the folks didn't have to die?

Remind me why I have to let an obviously well written tear jerking heart wrenching story overrule my reason?

Your appeal to authority fails because the guy outed himself as a hack as soon as he squirted out his half the folks didn't have to die BS.

For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.