COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread

[charby]

Fair enough.  So you obviously brought race into the conversation for a reason - apparently because you saw it as a factor for something that someone else was failing to consider.  Could you elaborate a bit on what you thought that was contributing?

Just that when we go back to whatever glorious time in the past (in the US) people pine for, it's usually a time when it wasn't so good for non whites (or Irish too, etc.). Just sitting here in my house that the bank mostly owns sits on land that was once controlled by Ioway Nations who ceded their lands from the end of a gun barrel to the US from 1820-1840 to be forced onto reservations. After the Indians were kicked off, much of the land was given away (or sold cheap) to whites to settle and develop.

[cordex]

Just that when we go back to whatever glorious time in the past (in the US) people pine for, it's usually a time when it wasn't so good for non whites (or Irish too, etc.). Just sitting here in my house that the bank mostly owns sits on land that was once controlled by Ioway Nations who ceded their lands from the end of a gun barrel to the US from 1820-1840 to be forced onto reservations. After the Indians were kicked off, much of the land was given away (or sold cheap) to whites to settle and develop.

... so they must be pining for the bad things?

Also, out of curiosity are you planning on giving your land back to the Iowa people after you pay it off?

[charby]

... so they must be pining for the bad things?

Also, out of curiosity are you planning on giving your land back to the Iowa people after you pay it off?

I think you're missing my point, doesn't mean they are pining for the bad things, just some of the good things came from a higher cost of the bad things paid by someone else. Actually going back to those times, the burden of the bad to get the good will have to bore by someone.

I just looked at the abstract for my property, the US owned it and 1855 and deeded the original 160 acres over to a Benjamin Richards. So the feds can pay the Ioway nation since they profited from the 1st sale. My lot is 3/4 of acre and Mr. Richards probably paid $2 an acre in 1855 since that was before the Homestead Act.

[cordex]

I think you're missing my point, doesn't mean they are pining for the bad things, just some of the good things came from a higher cost of the bad things paid by someone else. Actually going back to those times, the burden of the bad to get the good will have to bore by someone.

I'd like to suggest that it is possible that not everyone who talks positively about founding principles of this nation or doesn't like some arbitrary expansion of government authority (say, COVID restrictions that were invented out of whole cloth without so much as a nod to the legal way of enacting such requirements, to bring it full circle) or something is wishing for the good ol' days when a house slave would bring them a cool mint julep on a hot day.

Just maybe.

I just looked at the abstract for my property, the US owned it and 1855 and deeded the original 160 acres over to a Benjamin Richards. So the feds can pay the Ioway nation since they profited from the 1st sale. My lot is 3/4 of acre and Mr. Richards probably paid $2 an acre in 1855 since that was before the Homestead Act.

So you really don't care who your land was stolen from all that much.  Or who the people from whom it was stolen took it from before that, for that matter.

[charby]

So you really don't care who your land was stolen from all that much.  Or who the people from whom it was stolen took it from before that, for that matter.

I do care, but I like to know the full story, so hopefully it doesn't get repeated. I would love to see free or cheap farm ground, but I with other residents of Iowa, don't want to pick up a arms and take it away from the landowners in Illinois and force them to a reservation in New York State.

[cordex]

I do care, but I like to know the full story, so hopefully it doesn't get repeated. I would love to see free or cheap farm ground, but I with other residents of Iowa, don't want to pick up a arms and take it away from the landowners in Illinois and force them to a reservation in New York State.

So you approach it not so much from an original sin perspective (ala the colleges and Canadians who have to engage in pseudo-religious self-flagellation for historical crimes against the "true owners" of the land) to appease the woke for the crimes of who they are and what they have, and more from an instructional perspective, wherein you recall historical mistakes or successes to help you improve the future?

Sort of like what I took Ron to be doing before you accused him of wanting to restore slavery?

[charby]

So you approach it not so much from an original sin perspective (ala the colleges and Canadians who have to engage in pseudo-religious self-flagellation for historical crimes against the "true owners" of the land) to appease the woke for the crimes of who they are and what they have, and more from an instructional perspective, wherein you recall historical mistakes or successes to help you improve the future?

Sort of like what I took Ron to be doing before you accused him of wanting to restore slavery?

My text:

Do you want to go back when white folks could own humans, women were second class citizens and you could kill Indians without legal consequences?

I see no accusations, just a devil's advocate question.

[cordex]

My text:
I see no accusations, just a devil's advocate question.

  Yes, I know exactly what you said.

You're being disingenuous.  The act of asking someone whether they want something horrific is a clear and pointed accusation.  At minimum you are implying that there is a question as to how they would respond and it is a clear attempt to rhetorically join what they proposed with something evil. 

It is increasingly fashionable on the left to try to use a very targeted and myopic view of historical evil in the US to prove that everything they dislike about the US is likewise evil, and it is my impression that you were attempting to flirt with that kind of rhetoric.  But you bungled it, and instead of tripping Ron up and making him look the fool, it makes it seem like in your mind things that are genuine good are permanently joined to things that are evil.

"You like the natural, inalienable rights in the Constitution?  Well then you must like slavery too!"

That's presumably not what you believe, and I won't insult you by asking you if that's what you intended.

[charby]

  Yes, I know exactly what you said.

You're being disingenuous.  The act of asking someone whether they want something horrific is a clear and pointed accusation.  At minimum you are implying that there is a question as to how they would respond and it is a clear attempt to rhetorically join what they proposed with something evil. 

It is increasingly fashionable on the left to try to use a very targeted and myopic view of historical evil in the US to prove that everything they dislike about the US is likewise evil, and it is my impression that you were attempting to flirt with that kind of rhetoric.  But you bungled it, and instead of tripping Ron up and making him look the fool, it makes it seem like in your mind things that are genuine good are permanently joined to things that are evil.

"You like the natural, inalienable rights in the Constitution?  Well then you must like slavery too!"

That's presumably not what you believe, and I won't insult you by asking you if that's what you intended.

No, its just as simple as with history, the bad goes with the good. That is it, my whole thing was to perhaps to discuss why xyz doesn't happen anymore, instead of the typical "liberals been poisoning the well since 19whatever postmodern society" response.

This place seems to have turned into an echo chamber for a few handful of members.

[kgbsquirrel]

Dishonest discourse deserves not politeness, but contempt, excoriation, and mockery.  I won't hold someone's coat while they piss on my leg.

[zxcvbob]

Are we still talking about the Kung Flu at all?  Thread drift is fine (that's what we do :D) but this one seems to have blown off course entirely, and that's a shame.

[cordex]

No, its just as simple as with history, the bad goes with the good.

Okay, so how does that apply to the discussion at hand?  Your deep insight was in response to people condemning government usurpation of power over people's human rights.  How did your historical reference play in to that?  Seems to me the evils you brought up were in large part due to the government usurpation of power over people's human rights.  Maybe if you thought about it you'd realize you and Ron actually have some common ground.

That is it, my whole thing was to perhaps to discuss why xyz doesn't happen anymore, instead of the typical "liberals been poisoning the well since 19whatever postmodern society" response.

I'm still not seeing the connection.  If I'm being charitable, I'd say you were trying to find something to argue with Ron about, threw out some bumper sticker lines that you've heard, and just missed a lot of context.

This place seems to have turned into an echo chamber for a few handful of members.

Disagreement doesn't make it an echo chamber, charby.

[charby]

Disagreement doesn't make it an echo chamber, charby.

Slamming disagreement does or insulting the person does for their beliefs.

Echo chamber is an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered.

 

One more time, fingers crossed you will understand what I was attempting.

An example not involving race or something I said in the past.

A liberal minded person talks about how we should try socialism (again), someone counters them, "well what about the past with the mass deaths, starvation, corruption at the top, etc."

After this I'm done explaining, Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, hope your kind to your slaves on Boxing Day. --- The last bit is a joke, since you tend to take things at the absolute.

[Ron]

^^^Cordex, your numbered list should be engraved on a stone tablet somewhere.  I like it.

I concur, very concise and to the point.

No hyperbole or rhetoric.

[Jim147]

Getting back on topic, if that is possible, we had an uptick in cases here right before Thanksgiving. No deaths. The mid 80's guy that spent 3 weeks on a ventilator was partying  it up last weekend. His wife of same age and in worse health said it was like a cold.

It treats everyone different.

[Andiron]

That could be a good premise for a movie or TV show.

A TV show with at least 3-5 good seasons, and maybe and epic movie to end it? 

Yeah,  I wish I lived in that reality :D

[cordex]

One more time, fingers crossed you will understand what I was attempting.

An example not involving race or something I said in the past.

A liberal minded person talks about how we should try socialism (again), someone counters them, "well what about the past with the mass deaths, starvation, corruption at the top, etc."

I've clearly made a mistake.  My presumption was (and you agreed) that you believed there could be a distinction made between the good of the US's founding principles of individual freedom, rule by law, equality under the law, etc. and the evil of the way our nation initially failed to live up to some those principles. 

If in fact you have bought into the hard-left party line that racism and sexism are endemic to and inseparable from the founding principles of the US in the same way that totalitarianism, theft, corruption, starvation, and mass murder are endemic to socialism then there is simply not much discussion that can be had.

As you are someone who has prided himself in the past on being a free thinker, independent of pundits, and generally tried to position yourself as a centrist, it is unfortunate to see in this discussion nothing but tired, ahistorical, pseudo-intellectual, leftist pundit talking points.

I'm definitely looking forward to spending a few days with my daughters, my new son, and my wife and hope you have a similarly comfortable, relaxed, and enjoyable time off.

[charby]

I've clearly made a mistake.  My presumption was (and you agreed) that you believed there could be a distinction made between the good of the US's founding principles of individual freedom, rule by law, equality under the law, etc. and the evil of the way our nation initially failed to live up to some those principles. 

If in fact you have bought into the hard-left party line that racism and sexism are endemic to and inseparable from the founding principles of the US in the same way that totalitarianism, theft, corruption, starvation, and mass murder are endemic to socialism then there is simply not much discussion that can be had.

As you are someone who has prided himself in the past on being a free thinker, independent of pundits, and generally tried to position yourself as a centrist, it is unfortunate to see in this discussion nothing but tired, ahistorical, pseudo-intellectual, leftist pundit talking points.

I'm definitely looking forward to spending a few days with my daughters, my new son, and my wife and hope you have a similarly comfortable, relaxed, and enjoyable time off.

And you missed again

[WLJ]

[cordex]

And you missed again

You are very good at claiming to be misunderstood and that what you said is not what you meant.

[Angel Eyes]

Admin fight!

[BobR]

Admin fight!

Is this where we say "Take it to DMs"? 

bob

[Angel Eyes]

Is this where we say "Take it to DMs"? 

bob

I hope they don't.

 

[WLJ]

Well there's always this option

[Angel Eyes]

"TWO MEN ENTER!  ONE MAN LEAVES!"