Author Topic: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread  (Read 453791 times)

Ben

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5850 on: August 30, 2021, 10:01:25 AM »
Regardless, wear the mask if it makes you feel safe.

As I have alluded before, if they would have handled masks in a manner other than, "Mask up, or else!!!", they might have helped create a culture where people didn't feel awkward doing something like wearing a mask to the doctor's office. I have often in the past, in the waiting room surrounded by sickos while waiting for my physical, thought to myself, "Man, I would wear a mask to keep these coughing flu spreaders from giving me something if it didn't make me look like a dork."

They could have done PR that would incline people to wear masks for stuff other than covid, where the mask could be beneficial. When you threaten me, or send the Karens after me, I'll not wear a mask even if I know doing so would be beneficial. Just for spite.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5851 on: August 30, 2021, 10:08:27 AM »

I was trying to steelman your position and give it all the benefit of the doubt possible.  The impact on the aboriginal community was the very best argument I had seen in favor of the Australia lockdowns, albeit one you had not brought up.  If there is a real risk that COVID could wipe out, or nearly wipe out an entire community because of that community's inherent lack of developed immunity to then I'd certainly understand the drive to protect that community - if still not necessarily agreeing with the morality of imprisoning a people to protect them. 


But COVID-19 is a "novel" (i.e. "new") virus, to which nobody and no population has (or had, initially) an inherent developed immunity. The way any population or community develops immunity is for people to catch the virus, and beat it. So why is the Australian aboriginal community any different that the rest of the Australian population in regaerd to COVID-19?
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dogmush

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5852 on: August 30, 2021, 10:14:19 AM »
Even Fauci is on record early on telling the press that there is no reason the public should be masking up. There were plenty of others and still are that point to the science.

During this pandemic time there have been some studies that support your position, no politics involved I'm sure.

Studies of the Spanish Flu and the effectiveness of masks didn't show what you claim.

Regardless, wear the mask if it makes you feel safe.




I am personally kinda meh on the mask, despite being outspoken here against misinformation.  I believe the studies that show dual  layer cloth masks will tend to stop 40%-60% of the moister droplets that carry respiratory viruses, and that compliant widespread masking during this pandemic reduces the Re of COVID 19 by 1 to 3 (ish).  Those are not outlandish statements that can be easily backed up with a wide variety of studies and real world observations.

That is, however, not what prompted my post.

You said:
Quote
For the better part of a century the observation of scientists and health care professionals was that masks did little to nothing to stop the spread of airborn disease.

That is just untrue.  Scientists and medical professionals have known for that long that masks DO help stop the spread of airborne disease.  That's why surgical masks are a thing in surgery's. And masks are standard PPE when visiting immunocompromised patients in isolation.  And masks are given to current TB patients to wear in the community while undergoing treatment. And surgical masks are part of the available PPE for Mucous Membrane and Respiratory Protection in BSL lab protocols,  and why medical professionals that refuse the flu vaccine have to wear masks for patient care.

Because it's well known, and has been for more than 100 years, that masks, while not 100%, absolutely help slow the spread of airborne disease.

Your statement is untrue, regardless of my feelings of safety during the COVID pandemic.

cordex

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5853 on: August 30, 2021, 10:17:50 AM »
But COVID-19 is a "novel" (i.e. "new") virus, to which nobody and no population has (or had, initially) an inherent developed immunity. The way any population or community develops immunity is for people to catch the virus, and beat it. So why is the Australian aboriginal community any different that the rest of the Australian population in regaerd to COVID-19?
COVID-19 is novel, but coronaviruses are not.  It is possible that the aboriginal Australians have fewer inherent defenses against coronaviruses as a class than do other societies with a longer history of being exposed to other coronaviruses.

There is a long history of a people with lengthy historical exposure to a given type of disease (which still infects and sickens them) spreading it to a group without any historical exposure to that type of disease with disastrous results.

Ron

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5854 on: August 30, 2021, 10:26:23 AM »
I guess we needed to define the terms.

Not too many people are wearing surgical masks, using best practices, in public.

The public use and professional use shouldn't be conflated in my opinion.

The mask mandates are more of a training technique to get the public used to complying with government mandates, regardless of the logic or science. That's why Fauci did the public wearing masks flip flop IMHO.

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MechAg94

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5855 on: August 30, 2021, 11:01:24 AM »
IMO, even the thin cloth covering can stop a percentage of the droplets spread from someone's breathing, but only a percentage.  To me it is more effective for the people that are actively sick.  Govt does their usually heavy handed approach and decides to mandate masks for everyone "for our own good". 
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dogmush

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5856 on: August 30, 2021, 11:26:13 AM »
I guess we needed to define the terms.

Not too many people are wearing surgical masks, using best practices, in public.

The public use and professional use shouldn't be conflated in my opinion.

The mask mandates are more of a training technique to get the public used to complying with government mandates, regardless of the logic or science. That's why Fauci did the public wearing masks flip flop IMHO.

I think it's reasonable to assume the friends and family going into isolation rooms to visit, and the sick people being handed a box of disposable masks on discharge are a pretty solid indicator of "best practices" and use in the community at large.  Additionally there are definitely people, both before and after COVID, that are too stupid to wear a mask properly.  As we have seen for decades, there are people that are too stupid to wear pants and underwear properly and those garments are not as effective for that group as they are designed to be.


We're also moving the goalposts here a bit.  Before we go on to community wear of cloth masks during a pandemic, can we agree that scientists and medical professionals have known for more than a century that masks ere  effective at slowing the spread of airborne disease?

dogmush

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5857 on: August 30, 2021, 11:36:11 AM »
IMO, even the thin cloth covering can stop a percentage of the droplets spread from someone's breathing, but only a percentage.  To me it is more effective for the people that are actively sick.  Govt does their usually heavy handed approach and decides to mandate masks for everyone "for our own good".

If you believe that it stops a percentage of aerosol drops going out, why would it not stop a similar percentage of aerosol drops going in?  And if a dual layer cloth mask (which, you will recall is what was recommended for a while now, bandanas and neck gators notwithstanding) can stop some percentage of virus laden aerosol drops in both directions, wouldn't it benefit both the healthy person if both they, and the sick person were wearing one?  I think think the actual numbers show that it is more effective at stopping drops on the exhaler, but not by as much as you seem to imply.

The social and legal implications of widespread mask mandates by executive diktat or bureaucratic fiat are a separate issue from whether masking actually reduces community spread of COVID, or the more general question of masks vs. airborne disease.

MechAg94

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5858 on: August 30, 2021, 12:06:45 PM »
If you believe that it stops a percentage of aerosol drops going out, why would it not stop a similar percentage of aerosol drops going in?  And if a dual layer cloth mask (which, you will recall is what was recommended for a while now, bandanas and neck gators notwithstanding) can stop some percentage of virus laden aerosol drops in both directions, wouldn't it benefit both the healthy person if both they, and the sick person were wearing one?  I think think the actual numbers show that it is more effective at stopping drops on the exhaler, but not by as much as you seem to imply.

The social and legal implications of widespread mask mandates by executive diktat or bureaucratic fiat are a separate issue from whether masking actually reduces community spread of COVID, or the more general question of masks vs. airborne disease.
Why?  Because it is the heavier droplets that it stops or tends to catch.  I think that is the stuff that is more likely to get spread around to those in very close proximity or survive on surfaces.  With cold and flu, I think that helps a lot.  Not sure about COVID.  Does it help more than simple social distancing?  Maybe not.  I figure the person on the other end is less likely to breath in droplets like that, but can come into contact with them.  That is why I say it is just a percentage.  The ad hoc masks certainly aren't stopping everything. 

Are microscopic aerosol droplets the primary vector for spreading COVID?  I don't know.  If you know of a link on that, I would be interested to read it. 
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Ben

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5859 on: August 30, 2021, 05:53:57 PM »
New Zealand has a Pfizer death.

As one of the totalitarian lockdown countries, the reported total deaths for New Zealand is 26. It will be interesting to see if they end up with more vaccine deaths than covid deaths. They are apparently at 21% of the population being vaccinated. With that many more vaccinations to go, they could easily hit more than 26 vaccine deaths.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/first-death-linked-to-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-reported-in-new-zealand_3971996.html
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Ben

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5860 on: August 30, 2021, 07:29:09 PM »
The Australian PM has stated that "covid zero" is not a sustainable program.

Quote
However, Morrison on Aug. 23 said the current course of action was "not a sustainable way to live in this country."

"Once you get to 70% of your eligible population being vaccinated, and 80% ... the plan sets out we have to move forward," Morrison said in a video address. "Because if not at 70% and 80%, then when? Then when? This cannot go on forever, this is not a sustainable way to live in this country."

https://www.foxnews.com/world/australia-end-covid-policy-not-sustainable
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WLJ

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5861 on: August 30, 2021, 08:35:47 PM »
I'll just leave these two related stories here

Quote
    BREAKING: Education Dept. launches civil rights investigation into whether states that have banned masks are discriminating against students with disabilities who could be at a higher risk for severe illness from Covid. https://t.co/cTBgkI9F8B

    — NBC News (@NBCNews) August 30, 2021
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2021/08/30/biden-administration-launches-civil-rights-investigations-into-five-states-that-bar-indoor-mask-mandates-in-schools/

Quote
The ACLU represents a number of disability rights groups and parents who say that the state's ban not only hinders schools from adhering to federal disability rights law but also "illegally forces parents of children with underlying conditions to choose between their child's education and their child's health and safety."
The ACLU Sues Over South Carolina's Ban On School Mask Mandates
https://www.npr.org/sections/back-to-school-live-updates/2021/08/24/1030632820/the-aclu-sues-south-carolina-over-its-school-mask-ban
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Bogie

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5862 on: August 31, 2021, 08:29:45 AM »
I actually saw someone wearing an N95 mask a couple of days ago, tight enough to actually seal around the perimeter.
 
Except...
 
He had about a week or two's beard growth.
 
And the damn thing was one with a vent. Meaning exhalations are NOT filtered and may even gain momentum directionally.
 
Handwavium.
 
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Bogie

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5863 on: August 31, 2021, 08:31:14 AM »
Oh yeah - I keep a package of the China Fright magical masks behind the counter, for the rare instances where a customer requests a free mask.
 
One did yesterday. And put it in his pocket.
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MechAg94

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WLJ

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5865 on: August 31, 2021, 09:02:22 AM »
Ahh, the old mask defense.
Whole lot of wrongs in this story.

Quote
A liquor store security guard was acting in self defense when he shot a customer three times because the customer was “putting other’s lives at risk by not wearing a [COVID] mask,” the guard’s private defense attorney said during a bond court hearing Wednesday.

The argument did not sway cook County Judge Mary Marubio.

“The victim fled the store, fell outside, followed by the defendant [who], according to the surveillance video, shot a second time. The defendant then paces back and forth and shot a third time,” Marubio said before ordering 42-year-old Chester Holmes held without bail.
Quote
Holmes, who is barred from possessing a weapon because he is a four-time convicted felon and registered child sex offender, was working as an armed security guard at the store

Security guard who shot man 3 times acted in self defense because the victim wasn’t wearing a COVID mask, lawyer says
https://cwbchicago.com/2021/08/security-guard-who-shot-man-3-times-acted-in-self-defense-because-the-victim-wasnt-wearing-a-covid-mask-lawyer-says.html
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K Frame

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5866 on: August 31, 2021, 09:33:56 AM »
It's Chicago.

He'll get off scot free at trial.
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MechAg94

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5867 on: August 31, 2021, 09:41:49 AM »
Quote
Chicago cops heard the gunfire and responded quickly enough to see Holmes running away, according to Auguste. He ditched his gun and security vest along the way and later told arresting officers where they could find them, Auguste said. Holmes also allegedly admitted to shooting the victim.


The judge at least is not buying the self defense claim. 

Quote
“The victim fled the store, fell outside, followed by the defendant [who], according to the surveillance video, shot a second time. The defendant then paces back and forth and shot a third time,” Marubio said before ordering 42-year-old Chester Holmes held without bail.
Yeah, that would not work for self defense in most states.  Also doesn't help that he is a convicted felon who shouldn't have a gun in the first place.
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MillCreek

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5868 on: August 31, 2021, 10:56:24 AM »
^^^How did the employer of the armed security guard miss that?  It does not look good to hire a felon who cannot possess a gun and then give them a gun. Prepare for the big civil lawsuit against them.
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dogmush

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5869 on: August 31, 2021, 11:07:17 AM »
From the article:

Quote
Holmes, who is barred from possessing a weapon because he is a four-time convicted felon and registered child sex offender, was working as an armed security guard at the store on the 6000 block of South Racine when a 28-year-old man walked in without a COVID mask
.....
 Holmes was convicted of sexually assaulting a six-year-old girl and sexually abusing a 15-year-old girl in 2003. He has also served two prison terms for failing to follow sex offender registration requirements


That's quite the background check fail for your armed security guard.

His lawyer seems pretty optimistic though:

Quote
“This is obviously going to be a self-defense case,” Friedman said after hearing the allegations. He called the circumstances “basically, a customer who’s unruly, who wants to put other lives at risk,” by not wearing a COVID mask.

Ben

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5870 on: August 31, 2021, 01:05:06 PM »
^^^How did the employer of the armed security guard miss that?  It does not look good to hire a felon who cannot possess a gun and then give them a gun. Prepare for the big civil lawsuit against them.

Yeah, that.

Also, I think his lawyer is on drugs.
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Ron

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5871 on: August 31, 2021, 04:55:46 PM »
An article filled with a lot of links regarding immunity from Covid after previous infection.

https://sharylattkisson.com/2021/08/covid-19-natural-immunity-compared-to-vaccine-induced-immunity-the-definitive-summary/
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Bogie

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5872 on: August 31, 2021, 08:31:31 PM »
I think it's reasonable to assume the friends and family going into isolation rooms to visit, and the sick people being handed a box of disposable masks on discharge are a pretty solid indicator of "best practices" and use in the community at large.  Additionally there are definitely people, both before and after COVID, that are too stupid to wear a mask properly. 

Mostly, with the worst disease to EVER hit humanity (just watch the news...), they are to make people feel better and feel like they are Doing Something.
 
If some SOB is actually sick, and dons his vented N95 mask to go shopping for an ESSENTIAL, by golly, spark plug, just how should I feel about it?
 
If you're scared, stay home.
 
If you're sick, stay home twice.
 
If you still think it is so much of an issue that you have to get into someone's face over it, why ain't you home?
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MillCreek

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Quote from: Angel Eyes on August 09, 2018, 01:56:15 AM
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Bogie

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Re: COVID-19/corona virus mega thread/prepping thread
« Reply #5874 on: September 01, 2021, 06:53:49 PM »
Did that include snarky bastards wearing vented N95 masks getting in folks' faces?
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