Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: K Frame on December 06, 2018, 08:51:16 AM
-
George Bush flew a Grumman TBM Avenger during WW II. The Avenger was a torpedo bomber. Yet I can't count the number of references I've seen to Bush being a "fighter pilot."
Hell, even George W. referenced his Dad being a fighter pilot in his eulogy yesterday.
I'm not sure why all of these references are getting it wrong. Is it just a "everything on a carrier was a fighter" kind of mentality, or is it "fighters are sexier, and more manly"?
If the former, yeah, I sort of get that. If they latter, no I DON'T get that at all, because the torpedo bombers like the Avenger saw a lot more use in the Pacific as precision bombers and close air support than as torpedo planes, and to do that *expletive deleted*it? You need balls of amazing girth and made of the highest quality brass.
-
I think it's lack of knowledge. Bush 43 was a pilot himself, but I doubt he paid much attention to the different roles played by aircraft in WW2. Especially because newer aircraft seem to often play multiple roles ("Fighter/Bomber" etc.). To the general public, WW2 aircraft are probably thought of as "fighters," "bombers," or "cargo" and that's about all most people can handle.
-
I think it's more about PR and the tendency to glorify the recently dead than anything else. Fighter pilot sounds sexier than bomber pilot.
-
Honestly, when I heard George W. say "signed up to be a fighter pilot" and then, shortly after "the loss of his crew", I assumed George H. W. Bush had signed up to be a fighter pilot but became a bomber pilot and George W. had elided that transition.
Because my mind immediately said to me that "fighters don't have crews" and knew he had been a bomber pilot.
You are probably right that he (and many others) were just incorrect.
-
While technically not a "fighter" pilot, I can see him being called one. While they didn't go one on one with another plane, they weren't like what you would normally think of when you hear "bomber"; something like a B-29 flying way up high making it rain bombs. From reading about their actions in the book Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors, they basically went one on one with an enemy ship.
-
Honestly, when I heard George W. say "signed up to be a fighter pilot" and then, shortly after "the loss of his crew", I assumed George H. W. Bush had signed up to be a fighter pilot but became a bomber pilot and George W. had elided that transition.
Because my mind immediately said to me that "fighters don't have crews" and knew he had been a bomber pilot.
You are probably right that he (and many others) were just incorrect.
You know... I did the same "Wait? What? Crew?" but then I forgot about it as they continued.
-
I've no problem with it.
"Fighter Pilot" may not be entirely accurate but I'd buy any Avenger pilot/crew a beer any day of the week.
Late models were well fitted with guns as well.
http://worldwar2headquarters.com/HTML/aircraft/americanAircraft/avenger.html (http://worldwar2headquarters.com/HTML/aircraft/americanAircraft/avenger.html)
-
I know a lot about WW II carrier aircraft and carrier operations, and it bothers me when I hear things like that.
-
Every swinging dick that flew a plane off a carrier in WW2 deployed to a war zone was a fighter, oh wait, that's not the same is it? ;)
bob
-
I'll give it a pass, if 23 of your 24 planes don't come back from a sortie then fighter pilot is just decent shorthand for gigiantic brass balls and we'll never be close to that cool.
-
I know a lot about WW II carrier aircraft and carrier operations, and it bothers me when I hear things like that.
Which part?
-
Which part?
I think I more than adequately outlined my angst on this subject.
-
"I assumed George H. W. Bush had signed up to be a fighter pilot but became a bomber pilot and George W. had elided that transition."
You didn't sign up to be a fighter pilot.
You sign up to be a Naval aviator cadet. If you made it through all of the preliminary testing, education, and training, you graduated with the rank of Ensign and went on to preliminary flight school.
It wasn't until you hit advanced flight training that you were ASSIGNED, based on everything that came before, as well as your performance in advanced flight training, to be either a single engine (figher, torpedo bomber, or dive bomber) or multi-engine pilot.
Probably every kid who signed up for the Army Air Corps or the Navy had visions of being a fighter pilot, but no one walked in, said "I'm signing up to fly the F4F!" and actually got that without going through the training program.
-
Maybe he did go in thinking he was signing up to be a fighter pilot. Once he got there he learned the harsh reality of being assigned where needed. He is lucky he didn't end up flying a Grumman Goose out of Adak. You just never knew what pipeline you were going to get thrown into, needs of the service and all that stuff. ;)
bob
-
Didn't some WWII night fighters have a "crew" in terms of a pilot and a radar operator?
-
Didn't some WWII night fighters have a "crew" in terms of a pilot and a radar operator?
P-61 Black Widow...
-
So having a crew versus not having a crew does not differentiate a "fighter pilot" from a non-"fighter pilot," right?
-
No, the type of plane you fly and its Mission determines whether you are a fighter pilot or a torpedo bomber pilot.
-
"Maybe he did go in thinking he was signing up to be a fighter pilot. "
Very doubtful. And if he did walk in the door thinking he was signing up to be a fighter pilot that would have been dispelled within the first few minutes of his walking in the door as the process was explained to him and the rest of the Naval aviator candidates.