Shower valves

[zahc]

I've seen shower fittings. They have one knob or lever. When the knob is turned fully left, the shower is off. When it's turned to the right, the water immediately comes on full cold. If you keep turning it, it blends to full hot, all with in 180 degrees of turning or less.

I want one of these valves. What are they called, and where can I get one? I can't find anything in hardware stores and I don't know what to google.

[Brad Johnson]

Delta makes one.  Single handle rotating valve.  Available at Home Despot. 

Off is full to the right.  Rotate counter-clockwise to turn on.  Begins on cold and gets progressively warmer the further it is rotated.

Here's the median version.  I have these in both my showers.  Foofier versions are available if your taste and wallet allows.


http://www.homedepot.com/Building-Materials-Plumbing/Delta/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xjeZarfvZg2/R-100455867/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Brad

[dogmush]

What you're looking for is a single lever anti-scald (or balanced) shower valve.  They're pretty common.

As Brad said, HD or Lowes both carry an array of them to fit your style/budget.

[zxcvbob]

I got a nice Delta 2-handle balanced tub/shower valve a couple of years ago on eBay for about $50.  The left knob is on/off/volume and the right knob is temperature, and it's pressure compensated so the temp doesnt go crazy when someone turns on the hot water somewhere else in the house or flushes the toilet.  It's really nice being able to adjust the flow and the temperature separately, and the 2 small knobs fits the decor of the old house better than a 1-handle.

[geronimotwo]

the current delta looks like a single handle, but has a main lever that controls on/off/flow, and a center pointer that allows you to set the temp where you like and leave it there, regardless of the volume.  they are pressure balancing, which keeps you from getting scalded when the toilet is flushed.  the valves sold at plumbing supply stores use the same cartridge that the lowes/home depot units have, but the brass bodies are stronger and more durable.

http://cgi.ebay.com/DELTA-COMPLETE-SHOWER-UNIT-1724-CHROME-NEW-/220607606856?cmd=ViewItem&pt=US_Faucets&hash=item335d3cf048

[sanglant]

why not go all out? oh and don't forget the steam shower.

[zahc]

Note that I said I want a valve that behaves that way. I simple fitting for routing water. Not a handle, a trim plate, and a shower head, and valve. I only brought up the showers because that's the only place I've seen a valve that can go from hot to cold in a short throw, with only one control.

Surely there is a bit behind the wall that is just a valve with a stem on it, with two inlets and an outlet? I need that part. I'm not using it for a shower, I just need such a valve so that I can make an automated water panel that is controlled with only one stepper motor. I may be forced to buy a shower kit and throw everything away, but I haven't even been able to see what the actual valve looks like and what the connections are.

If someone knows a really clever way to arrive at the same kind of all-hot-one-way-and-cold-the-other-way action out of regular, normal plumbing valves, I'm all ears.

[Marnoot]

Googling Thermostatic Water Mixing Valves returns a lot of possibilities like what you're describing, the couple pages I clicked in seemed like it might be cheaper to just buy a cheapo shower valve like you want and tossing the trim.

[zahc]

The common thermostatic water mixing valves are for regulating hot, 140F water down a few tens of degrees to 110F or whatever is safe.

I need water temperature regulated anywhere between 65 and 100F with +-1 degree accuracy. I can do this electronically with a temperature sensor and PID loop but I need a way to control the water. I could use two valves and two motors and implement the mixing in software, but I would rather use one valve and one motor to do the same thing. Apparently I can't buy such a valve even though they are installed in millions of homes for their showers. I can only by them and spam.

[Hawkmoon]

Note that I said I want a valve that behaves that way. I simple fitting for routing water. Not a handle, a trim plate, and a shower head, and valve. I only brought up the showers because that's the only place I've seen a valve that can go from hot to cold in a short throw, with only one control.

Surely there is a bit behind the wall that is just a valve with a stem on it, with two inlets and an outlet? I need that part. I'm not using it for a shower, I just need such a valve so that I can make an automated water panel that is controlled with only one stepper motor. I may be forced to buy a shower kit and throw everything away, but I haven't even been able to see what the actual valve looks like and what the connections are.

If someone knows a really clever way to arrive at the same kind of all-hot-one-way-and-cold-the-other-way action out of regular, normal plumbing valves, I'm all ears.

Symmons "Temptrol" is the valve. But it needs about 270 degrees of rotation to work its magic, not 180.



http://www.symmons.com/Contractors-and-Engineers/Product-Families/Temptrol.aspx

It's available at Lowe's or Home Depot. Probably both. I got one at one of those a few years back, but I don't remember which.

However, it (and all the competing valves) will NOT regulate temperature to +/- 1 degree. In fact, technically they don't regulate temperature at all. You set what feels comfortable to you. If the valve senses the pressure in one side dropping, it throttles back the other side to match. They are actually "pressure balancing" valves, not temperature regulating valves.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

they make temp regulated ones  they really cost  in the neighborhood of a grand

[Hawkmoon]

they make temp regulated ones  they really cost  in the neighborhood of a grand

True.

Those will not be found at Lowe's or Home Despot. And they still aren't accurate to +/- 1 degree.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

you might get best results from a tankless with a remote unit coupled to a real small holding tank and a recirculating pump

[zahc]

However, it (and all the competing valves) will NOT regulate temperature to +/- 1 degree....You set what feels comfortable to you. If the valve senses the pressure in one side dropping, it throttles back the other side to match.

That's completely not what I'm looking for. I'm not looking for a temperature regulating valve. In fact a temperature regulating valve WILL NOT WORK for me. I've been over this a dozen times with the Home Depot and Elliots people already...

I'm going to build my own electronic temperature regulating water panel. Completely build it from scratch. I've got the electronics handled. I simply need a simple, passive valve that will physically mix hot and cold, and goes from full hot, to full cold, with one valve. That's it. Just a valve that goes from cold to hot. My electronics will take care of the temperature compensating. The valve just needs to be able to go from hot to cold, with one rotating shaft.

I could use two ball valves, with one on the hot, and one on the cold. But then I would need two motors to turn them. I would rather do it with one valve, because I thought it would be simpler. Apparently not, because such valves don't exist. Except they exist in showers. The $40/night motel I stayed in last week had one. But you can't buy them.

[sanglant]

dose it need to be able to turn the water off completely? if not, turn one on all the way. then use the other to regulate temp?

[KD5NRH]

I could use two ball valves, with one on the hot, and one on the cold. But then I would need two motors to turn them.

Why not use two ball valves with one reversed and a linkage between them; as cold increases, hot decreases and vice versa.  You'd need at least one more valve to regulate overall flow, but the temp control could be done with a single actuator.

The linkage should be fairly simple to work out.

[zahc]

dose it need to be able to turn the water off completely? if not, turn one on all the way. then use the other to regulate temp?

That would be suboptimal because you could never get both fully hot and fully cold that way.

Why not use two ball valves with one reversed and a linkage between them; as cold increases, hot decreases and vice versa.

This is my fallback plan, looking more and more likely. It will be a pain, and take up a lot of room, to have multiple valves and linkages. Since I don't have very good fabrication facilities, it would probably be easier for me to just use two motors, if I have to use two valves. The mixing possibilities would be better as well (more flow at 50-50 for example)

[Brad Johnson]

I've seen shower fittings. They have one knob or lever. When the knob is turned fully left, the shower is off. When it's turned to the right, the water immediately comes on full cold. If you keep turning it, it blends to full hot, all with in 180 degrees of turning or less.

I want one of these valves. What are they called, and where can I get one? I can't find anything in hardware stores and I don't know what to google.

That's completely not what I'm looking for. I'm not looking for a temperature regulating valve. In fact a temperature regulating valve WILL NOT WORK for me. I've been over this a dozen times with the Home Depot and Elliots people already...

I'd be careful getting all pissy, kid.  It's your description that's causing the confusion.  If you don't know what you want then don't get all bent out of shape when we can't read your mind.

Apparently not, because such valves don't exist. Except they exist in showers. The $40/night motel I stayed in last week had one. But you can't buy them.

Apparently they do exist and you can buy them.  That, or your mystery motel made their own.

Brad

[zahc]

Sorry about being 'pissy' (sic). It was obviously my description that caused the confusion. Or maybe my mistake was posting in the first place. I should have found a way to describe what I'm trying to find without using the words 'shower' or 'temperature' because then people (and google) immediately start showing me shower furniture. Not being a plumber, I was hoping there was, you know, a name for the type of simple mixing valve used in these kind of shower fittings, which is what I need. For all I know (knew) it was a dead common part called a "Conflux Combiner" that costs $10.

[zxcvbob]

The 2-handle valve I mentioned earlier would work.  The mixer part goes from full-hot to full-cold with a 180 degree turn of the handle.  And it's pressure compensated, but not temperature compensated.  You just wouldn't use the flow control part (the lefthand knob.)  It was made by Delta.

Edit:  Have you looked at washing machine mixing valves?

[grislyatoms]

Go into hardware store and ask about/google mixer valves.

I had to replace one ~4 years ago. Piece 'o'cake. Went in to the hardware store and asked the guy about mixer valves. Had what I needed in my hand ~ 5 minutes.

[Brad Johnson]

Go into hardware store and ask about/google mixer valves.

Googling "mixing valve" seemed to streamline the results a little, for me at least.

Brad

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i doubt you are gonna get +- 1 degree with anything.  what is it that you are trying to use it for?

[Triphammer]

McMaster-Carr   "www.mcmaster.com" item # 97745K24, or 97745K24 or 9158K11 .

Whenever I'm looking for some oddball part, I start here.

[dogmush]

Or MSC.

mixing valve

I'm not sure if either of them sell to the public though.