Author Topic: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead  (Read 34164 times)

Fitz

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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #100 on: September 18, 2013, 01:35:27 PM »
The whole disarmament thing on .mil bases cracks me up, in a very depressing way.

Seems that a pair of loser bank robbers could completely take over an army base.  A typical urban Police station has more readily deployable firepower, at what appears to be about 2-3 orders of magnitude.  Bumbleskank, Arkansas city hall has about twice the firepower.

Those 19 AQ pilots who hijacked planes could have instead taken over about 4-5 bases in the continental US, instead.

Trust me, you are not the only person thinks it is absurd
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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #102 on: September 18, 2013, 02:06:58 PM »
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57603416/aaron-alexis-tried-to-buy-assault-rifle-but-was-unable-to/

CBS is reporting much the same thing.  I wonder what the accurate answer is.

I would say Emily Miller is right.
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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #103 on: September 18, 2013, 02:20:01 PM »
Not to take away from this dark event, but when do the libel lawsuits from Colt and Magpul get filed?



AZRedhawk44

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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #104 on: September 18, 2013, 02:27:38 PM »
Not to take away from this dark event, but when do the libel lawsuits from Colt and Magpul get filed?


http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1458149.1379398553!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/front917.jpg

And bushmaster/BCM/DPMS/RRA/American Spirit/C-products/Del-ton/Armalite/et alia.

Class action suit with $5000 damages per manufacturer would ruin this paper.  There must be a hundred companies or more that make AR's and AR products.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #105 on: September 18, 2013, 02:37:15 PM »
I would say Emily Miller is right.

I don't know. Miller claims he went on his spree with only 30 shells purchased locally. Everyone knows it takes a thousand rounds purchased online.
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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #106 on: September 18, 2013, 02:42:41 PM »
The whole disarmament thing on .mil bases cracks me up, in a very depressing way.

Seems that a pair of loser bank robbers could completely take over an army base.  A typical urban Police station has more readily deployable firepower, at what appears to be about 2-3 orders of magnitude.  Bumbleskank, Arkansas city hall has about twice the firepower.

Those 19 AQ pilots who hijacked planes could have instead taken over about 4-5 bases in the continental US, instead.

Of course I am not, and never was .mil, but it's clear even to me that the culture is such that for the XO, even one ND/AD by anyone under their command will mess up his or her career, while an active shooter tragedy will arguably be a "leadership opportunity" with all sorts of meetings, additional budget, promotion even.

It won't change until Generals/Admirals are made responsible for preventing, repelling, or minimizing these attacks, rather than being lumped in with the "victims".

And bushmaster/BCM/DPMS/RRA/American Spirit/C-products/Del-ton/Armalite/et alia.

Class action suit with $5000 damages per manufacturer would ruin this paper.  There must be a hundred companies or more that make AR's and AR products.

I for one would throw $25 into the kitty for such a legal fund to support such a lawsuit. They could go under the NSSF collectively. It would probably get tossed, libel/slander being a rather high standard of evidence to prove, and rightfully so, but such a shot across the bow might cool the ardor of the accomplice MSM to run with anti-gun hit pieces so willy-nilly.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2013, 02:46:54 PM by AJ Dual »
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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #107 on: September 18, 2013, 02:59:28 PM »
Last time I bothered to look into it, there was a part of basic training where they made recruits take their weapon with them everywhere - albeit unloaded and with no (official) access to any kind of ammo.  The goal was to both demystify the item and get them so used to at least having it around that they would literally feel uncomfortable without it - much like many folks and their smart phone.  I'll let our resident former, ex-Drill Sergeant explain this better.

Just like we say we let our children look and and handle our guns whenever they ask to, so there will not be a mystique calling to them to get hold of them and fiddlefinger them when we are not around.

Why do cops not go around pointing their guns at each other, and drive over to other police stations to point their guns at the cops there?  Could part of it be related that all the mystique was wrung out of them by having to clean and carry them all the time?  The 3 years between military and cop rookie ages accounts for some levels of maturation, but I'm not convinced that maturity based merely by being 3 years older is the explanation of why cops do not horseplay and shoot eachother.  (Well, there is also the odd possibility of being able to bust a cap in some citizen. [tinfoil])

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

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They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #108 on: September 18, 2013, 03:10:53 PM »
Heck, skid:  If they want control over the privates 24/7/365, so be it.

How about everyone from sergeant to general carries an M9 all the time, at least?

Or if they're gonna fuss over the "weight" of an M9 ;/, start a bid for a new 100%-all-the-time pistol to be carried by the officer corps when not otherwise assigned to an active front.  Sub 16 ounces, single stack 9mm.  Same general manual of arms as the M9 just to keep things simple (slide safety selector and decocker, DA/SA).  A slightly overgrown Walther.

A few hundred people carrying one of those on base can put a quick stop to the lone whacko shooter.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #109 on: September 18, 2013, 03:32:20 PM »
Give guns to officers?!  :O. No, no, no, no, no, no.
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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #110 on: September 18, 2013, 03:48:23 PM »
The whole disarmament thing on .mil bases cracks me up, in a very depressing way.

Seems that a pair of loser bank robbers could completely take over an army base.  A typical urban Police station has more readily deployable firepower, at what appears to be about 2-3 orders of magnitude.  Bumbleskank, Arkansas city hall has about twice the firepower.

Those 19 AQ pilots who hijacked planes could have instead taken over about 4-5 bases in the continental US, instead.

Send out an infantry unit with full arms, commo, night vision, & such gear into the NE Georgia mountains and you, too, can see the dawning of realization on your CO's and XO's face when you tell them that a few hillbillies with 100 year old long guns and more rounds in their pockets than teeth in their skulls could take it all away. 

Next time, I got my operational ammo, thanks.
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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #111 on: September 18, 2013, 03:54:57 PM »
And bushmaster/BCM/DPMS/RRA/American Spirit/C-products/Del-ton/Armalite/et alia.

Class action suit with $5000 damages per manufacturer would ruin this paper.  There must be a hundred companies or more that make AR's and AR products.


I only proposed those two to start with because that's a Colt AR-15 with Magpul furniture.


Oh, and just to point something out.... that picture of the "wounded being treated" was a guy who had a heart attack 6 blocks away, not one of the victims in the shooting.

Fitz

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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #112 on: September 18, 2013, 04:06:28 PM »
Last time I bothered to look into it, there was a part of basic training where they made recruits take their weapon with them everywhere - albeit unloaded and with no (official) access to any kind of ammo.  The goal was to both demystify the item and get them so used to at least having it around that they would literally feel uncomfortable without it - much like many folks and their smart phone.  I'll let our resident former, ex-Drill Sergeant explain this better.

Just like we say we let our children look and and handle our guns whenever they ask to, so there will not be a mystique calling to them to get hold of them and fiddlefinger them when we are not around.

Why do cops not go around pointing their guns at each other, and drive over to other police stations to point their guns at the cops there?  Could part of it be related that all the mystique was wrung out of them by having to clean and carry them all the time?  The 3 years between military and cop rookie ages accounts for some levels of maturation, but I'm not convinced that maturity based merely by being 3 years older is the explanation of why cops do not horseplay and shoot eachother.  (Well, there is also the odd possibility of being able to bust a cap in some citizen. [tinfoil])

stay safe.

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Fitz

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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #113 on: September 18, 2013, 04:06:53 PM »
Send out an infantry unit with full arms, commo, night vision, & such gear into the NE Georgia mountains and you, too, can see the dawning of realization on your CO's and XO's face when you tell them that a few hillbillies with 100 year old long guns and more rounds in their pockets than teeth in their skulls could take it all away. 

Next time, I got my operational ammo, thanks.

I always figured it was urban legend, but I heard stories back in my Army days about this.  We're out there without even blanks for most field problems.  Some folks show up loaded guns and steal all of our guns.

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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #114 on: September 18, 2013, 04:08:33 PM »
Heck, skid:  If they want control over the privates 24/7/365, so be it.

How about everyone from sergeant to general carries an M9 all the time, at least?

Or if they're gonna fuss over the "weight" of an M9 ;/, start a bid for a new 100%-all-the-time pistol to be carried by the officer corps when not otherwise assigned to an active front.  Sub 16 ounces, single stack 9mm.  Same general manual of arms as the M9 just to keep things simple (slide safety selector and decocker, DA/SA).  A slightly overgrown Walther.

A few hundred people carrying one of those on base can put a quick stop to the lone whacko shooter.

I have long advocated for issuance / carry of weapons on base for leadership at a minimum.

Even if you restricted it to E-6 and above and CPT and above, that's a hell of a lot of armed folks on a .mil base.
Fitz

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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #115 on: September 18, 2013, 04:39:56 PM »
I always figured it was urban legend, but I heard stories back in my Army days about this.  We're out there without even blanks for most field problems.  Some folks show up loaded guns and steal all of our guns.

It's still dumb, but those that have the idea "Come SHTF, I'll just get what I need from the .mil" is now just a little bit less dumb.

The IDF seems to have this under control, everyone has ammo, in magazines, ON the weapon somewhere, just not IN. And they have some of the compulsory service/conscription lowest common denominator issues to deal with, vs. the supposedly higher qualities of an all volunteer force.
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Re: Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #116 on: September 18, 2013, 04:44:13 PM »
No libel suit. They should pay commision to the paper. Everyone will want one "before the ban"!!

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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #117 on: September 18, 2013, 06:13:34 PM »
I have long advocated for issuance / carry of weapons on base for leadership at a minimum.

Even if you restricted it to E-6 and above and CPT and above, that's a hell of a lot of armed folks on a .mil base.


The Army only lets Muslim Majors carry on base... Oh, wait.... :facepalm:
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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #118 on: September 18, 2013, 06:44:51 PM »
Not to take away from this dark event, but when do the libel lawsuits from Colt and Magpul get filed?




So when will they be publishing the retraction? /cynical laugh
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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #119 on: September 19, 2013, 05:34:32 AM »
I have long advocated for issuance / carry of weapons on base for leadership at a minimum.
 
Even if you restricted it to E-6 and above and CPT and above, that's a hell of a lot of armed folks on a .mil base.

Didn't they issue the 1903 hammerless in .380 to general officers?  It looked just a bit less funny than the tin swords European generals carried around, and is more powerful than (in decending order of powerfullness) harsh words or the .25acp Baby Growning.
 
stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #120 on: September 19, 2013, 06:00:01 AM »
Oh, and just to point something out.... that picture of the "wounded being treated" was a guy who had a heart attack 6 blocks away, not one of the victims in the shooting.


Source?
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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #121 on: September 19, 2013, 10:54:15 AM »
Send out an infantry unit with full arms, commo, night vision, & such gear into the NE Georgia mountains and you, too, can see the dawning of realization on your CO's and XO's face when you tell them that a few hillbillies with 100 year old long guns and more rounds in their pockets than teeth in their skulls could take it all away. 

Next time, I got my operational ammo, thanks.
Friend of mine served in Korea. (This was long after the Korean War.) One night they had an alert, everyone had to grab guns, helments, etc. and report to their duty stations, prepared to defend against an attack. NO AMMO WAS AVAILABLE. The ammo bunkers were locked up, and nobody knew who had the keys; they were out there effectively unarmed for over an hour before word came through that it was a false alarm. But a troop of North Korean boy scouts could have simply walked over the base.
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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #122 on: September 19, 2013, 12:09:06 PM »
As opposed to one of the nights during my 3-day visit to Gitmo.  Full alert, with us facing the Cubans who either started it or were responding to us going on alert (never did find out and really did not care).  Being a visitor and therefore essentially lost and totally useless, I was put to work passing ammo crates from a bunker onto motorized mules (M274).  I asked why we were loading up ammo instead of it being on the line and was told this was for when the grunts on the fences low.

Maybe somebody knew something?

stay safe.
If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of a constitutional privilege.

Hey you kids!! Get off my lawn!!!

They keep making this eternal vigilance thing harder and harder.  Protecting the 2nd amendment is like playing PACMAN - there's no pause button so you can go to the bathroom.

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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #123 on: September 19, 2013, 12:19:25 PM »
As opposed to one of the nights during my 3-day visit to Gitmo.  Full alert, with us facing the Cubans who either started it or were responding to us going on alert (never did find out and really did not care).  Being a visitor and therefore essentially lost and totally useless, I was put to work passing ammo crates from a bunker onto motorized mules (M274).  I asked why we were loading up ammo instead of it being on the line and was told this was for when the grunts on the fences low.

Maybe somebody knew something?

stay safe.

Isn't Gitmo a Marine base, and the Korean DMZ an Army base?  Different policies?

Gitmo is also a prison.  Korean DMZ is not.
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Re: Shooting at the DC Navy Yard - 12 shot, 4 of them dead
« Reply #124 on: September 19, 2013, 04:27:04 PM »

Source?

Source? Ain't nobody got time fo dat!



Well, other than some friends who work down there who told me, I suppose there's this: http://petapixel.com/2013/09/18/viral-photos-navy-yard-tragedy-dont-show-shooting-victim/