Post by: cfabe on March 16, 2005, 04:39:27 AM
Am I just unlucky, or are these things getting to be cheap junk? The friend with the bad mobo replaced his with an IBM thinkpad, which seems much better constructed, very solid.
Post by: Wedge on March 16, 2005, 04:45:58 AM
Post by: MicroBalrog on March 16, 2005, 04:46:28 AM
Post by: Ukraine Train on March 16, 2005, 04:53:23 AM
Post by: TarpleyG on March 16, 2005, 04:54:22 AM
Dell made all that right by the guy. It was a mistake on Dell's part. Stop spreading it around, okay? They are not anti-gun. Not necessarily pro, but not decidedly anti.
That said, I have been in a Dell shop for nearly 10 years. We have over 15,000 Dell computers (servers, desktops, and laptops). While not as good as an IBM, they are affordable. I will say that the quality has gone down since a decade ago. I guess the demand for more and less expensive has caused QC to drop. Laptops, servers, and desktops we bought 10 years ago were of much better quality, both internally and externally, than what I am getting today. We have had a rash of parts failures in the past 2 years, and this is on there business-grade equipment.
If you can afford an IBM (server, laptop, or desktop), get it. You won't be disappointed.
On a funny note--my procurement guy calls me yesterday and says I will be getting two IBMs to evaluate and to make sure they are around and visible when our Dell rep comes around for her bi-weekly meeting. Cruel, I know, but hey, we have said it over and over to them that the quality is going to hell, especially on the servers.
Greg
Post by: Sean Smith on March 16, 2005, 05:01:29 AM
They are one of the few companies to offer the faster Pentium M processors combined with the faster nVidia graphics chips, though. Alot of the better companies' laptops seem to have inferior performance specs.
I've got no experience with Sager laptops, but I keep hearing good things about them.
Post by: pauli on March 16, 2005, 06:07:17 AM
right now, dell is paying my bills.
Post by: uvakat on March 16, 2005, 06:11:51 AM
Quote from: TarpleyG
Micro,
If you can afford an IBM (server, laptop, or desktop), get it. You won't be disappointed.
Greg
I don't know about that Greg... My mom works for IBM so I got one when I went off to college. Apparently the series I have has plently of problems with motherboard and memory failures (some of her co-workers have had problems too). Since I've had this laptop, I've had to have the harddrive replaced once, the mother board once, the connections with the memory fixed twice, the screen replaced once, and then the keyboard replaced a few times. Now this is extrememly rare for this much to go wrong and the majority of the people I know love the computers and wouldn't trade them in for the world... so maybe it's just my system... I"m hoping this next waranty call will be a "we'll replace your entire system"... since I think I need it...
If you can afford an IBM (server, laptop, or desktop), get it. You won't be disappointed.
Greg
Post by: BryanP on March 16, 2005, 06:57:24 AM
As for IBM laptops, I used many of them in my previous job. Again the business-grade models are much higher in quality. Overall I thought IBM was higher quality than Dell, but also significantly more expensive.
Post by: jamz on March 16, 2005, 07:00:04 AM
Love, James
Post by: Unisaw on March 16, 2005, 07:03:04 AM
Post by: TarpleyG on March 16, 2005, 07:03:05 AM
My experience is with the business grade of both manufacturers. All of the consumer grade stuff is suspect, from ANY company just simply because of the cost factor. I hear it every day from managers in the field--"Well, I can go down to CompUSA and get a computer for $xxx, why do I have to pay $xxxx for the one you are giving me?" Standardization, that's why.
Greg
Post by: aguyindallas on March 16, 2005, 07:06:36 AM
I think dude, I should have something better than this! I think that although Dell is not what it used to be, its still a good buy. Sure, if you can afford the IBM, go for it. If not a Dell, or a Sony will do you well. From what I have seen about Sony is that they have a lot of proprietary stuff, which makes me mad.
Post by: Guest on March 16, 2005, 07:21:14 AM
Go for something else. I type this on an acer, and sagers and prostars' quality really impress me.
Post by: uvakat on March 16, 2005, 07:34:50 AM
I have the business grade version of my computer. It is the same one that is issued to some of their employees... Somehow they screwed up on the inital T-30 line for the first half of the production... so they have a problem with the memory slots. That being said, both of my parents got issued IBM Thinkpads and both of theirs works better then mine *confused*. Then again the rants limit to computer use is email and word documents.
Post by: StopTheGrays on March 16, 2005, 11:35:54 AM
I would shy away from Compaq/HP, Gateway or any low end laptop. They aint worth the pain.
Post by: jefmad on March 16, 2005, 01:54:07 PM
Post by: Moondoggie on March 16, 2005, 03:29:03 PM
Post by: telewinz on March 16, 2005, 04:05:56 PM
Post by: Sean Smith on March 16, 2005, 04:25:12 PM
Quote from: telewinz
I picked-up a factory refurb Dell 1150 laptop based on my son's experience with his. Neither has had a problem and I can't argue with the $650 price tag DELIVERED! Includes a 90 day warranty. That being said...their customer service just doesn't seem to exist. Called to place my order and ended-up talking to someone in India! They talked so fast I thought they were on drugs! Maybe they were because they screwed up my order but after surfing the web, there was nothing with the same features for under $1100. Old, inferior laptops on ebay go for more than the Dell 1150 (I checked)! It gets the job done with a 2.8 mhz P4 and 500 mb of ram.
What Dell does is very simple.1. The major components that have to show up in the ad copy are good (e.g. Intel processors, ATI and nVidia video cards).
2. They get huge volume discounts from Intel, ATI, et. al. because they move so many units, so even their fairly cheap systems can have fairly high-performance parts.
3. Everything else going into the system is cheap, off-brand junk.
4. They job out their customer service to the 3rd world, so it costs them next to nothing.
5. They lard up the system with 30-day free trials for other people's software, presumably in return for some kind of kickback.
The result is systems that look good on paper but under-perform for their specs, are often unreliable, and when they do fail the customer service makes you want to go on a murder spree.
Post by: telewinz on March 16, 2005, 04:27:29 PM
Post by: garrettwc on March 16, 2005, 05:15:38 PM
Post by: Sindawe on March 16, 2005, 08:57:01 PM
Nope, No dice. I had to get a bit nasty and twist their arm to get them to replace the guts of the machine in one swoop to fix the beast.
As a result of that, and the limitation on a laptop, the next box is gonna be another tower, or mabye one of the small form factor cases ment for gaming at LAN parties.
Post by: Guest on March 17, 2005, 12:07:35 AM
Having learned a bit more , and now taking IT stuff at College - I better understand why I have been happy.
We use for desktops mostly Dell, we still have some Gateways. New G5s in Mac lab are sure cool. The laptops are all Gateway...I am really shocked and surprised how these things have held up.
Serious Folks I'm around use the IBM, like students, Professors, business.
A few have a "disposable" one - a Gateway bought locally.
Quite a few folks are going to Powerbooks.
Post by: Sean Smith on March 17, 2005, 04:47:41 AM
Quote from: telewinz
Sounds like the Walmart sucess story...I shop there too. No problems. I guess the PC reviews (I did my research) were ALL wrong. Please cite ANY poor review of the DELL computer, I must have missed it. No "lard" came with mine but in fairness every computer I've purchased is LOADED with "LARD".
Well, first of all, when reading PC reviews, think gun magazine reviews. The really critical reviewers of PC hardware tend to be the enthusaist sites, where Dells tend to looked at in the same way auto enthusiasts look at pre-recall Ford Pintos.Second, most mass-producers of PCs use similar methods, just not to the same degree. So Dells don't stand out as particulary bad in comparison.
Third, most of what I talked about hardware-wise relates to long-term reliability, which a quickie review isn't going to uncover. You want to see evidence of those long-term problems? Visit the Dell.com forums, they are packed with them to overflowing.
As for performance, I'd suggest you look at the reviews again and do some critical thinking. How are they testing performance? Are they really giving you objective information, like actual scores in modern benchmarks? Or are they just throwing around generalities? Do they even discuss things like SuperPi times, Aquamark 3 or 3DMark05 scores, or Prime95 torture testing for stability? Or do they just say it is "fast" and "stable," without objective evidence to back it up? Do they even measure the operating temperature of the components?
Post by: BillBlank on March 17, 2005, 11:20:50 PM
Dell on the other hand, didn't survive normal use. Cases would fragment, screens died, hard drives failed, you name it. Universally hated.
YMMV
Post by: jamz on March 18, 2005, 04:00:52 AM
I hear Thinkpads will take multiple rounds of .308 while you assemble your NEF handi-Rifle too.
-Love, James
Post by: telewinz on March 18, 2005, 02:31:01 PM