Author Topic: "We will die for Allah"  (Read 10512 times)

Ron

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Re: "We will die for Allah"
« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2015, 10:15:29 AM »
Bingo!

Substitute 'liberals' for 'muslims' (might as well leave the 'orthodox in there too), and the statement is still true.

We have met the enemy and he is us.

rooster commented:
Quote
5. Referring to orthodox muslims in such a manner serves the same purpose as the terms jap, kraut, gook, etc.  It sharpens the contrast between the groups and facilitates action and/or attitudes to counter the hirsine-humper threat.  Sure, it is not language you would use toward your buddies over a game of rummy, but were one of the orthodox muslims seated at that table, like as not he'd be sawing off your head while you were hollering, "But 'Machete' is not a proper suit!  Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaak!"

We can agree that the contrasts need to be sharpened, the lines need to be clear. Not only between Islam and (nominally) Christian cultures but also among Americans who still think along traditional lines (enlightenment/reformation) and folks who have had their thought processes muddled (post modernism/Marxist dialectic).

Using the progressives method of dehumanizing the "enemy" and ad hominums is counterproductive IMHO.


« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 10:38:29 AM by Ron »
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Scout26

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Re: "We will die for Allah"
« Reply #51 on: December 02, 2015, 11:02:02 AM »
Like Ron, I know/worked with many Muslims.  (There are lots of them as truck drivers)  And I had more then one tell me I would either be killed or be their slave should America become a Islamic country.  And these were the moderate/"good ones".   Islam is a more of a revolutionary concept like Communism then a religion.  Where instead of doing evil in the name of Marx or Stalin or "Historic Destiny", the killing and converting (re-educating) is done in the name of Allah.  

Sorry, but I don't see a difference.  And we'll have to defeat it the same way we defeat Communism (although, we vote for it here.  :facepalm: :facepalm:)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3NzkAOo3s
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 04:35:32 PM by scout26 »
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

roo_ster

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Re: "We will die for Allah"
« Reply #52 on: December 02, 2015, 11:07:37 AM »
Ron:

We are not going to reason orthodox muslims into being solid citizens in a liberal republic or reasonable folk in the ME.  We are not going to triumph by playing Marquis of Queensbury or Westphalian rules. 

What drives recruitment for ISIS (or any other orthodox muslim organization) is success, not big meany westerners saying harsh things.  OBL called it more than a decade ago: folks in that part of the world will back the strong horse.  The more we exhibit strength and confidence, the less likely we are to have muslim problems. The more we show weakness or accommodation to their culture the more they will act out and seek a stronger horse.  Part of that is valuing our own culture and achievements above theirs and being bold in boosting our own while also denigrating theirs.

For muslims here in the USA they need to be presented a choice: Do they want to be goat-humping refugees from Dark Age cess pit or part of a country that builds the best war machines on earth?  Leave them zero space to maintain their old culture outside of a few restaurants.  Give them the same treatment those of German ethnicity got during WWI. 

Such a policy, vigorously pursued, might avoid the worst of the nastiness we in America and the West find rushing toward us.  A surefire way to ensure maximum blood and destruction is to continue on trying to convince with unctuous reason those who have discarded reason for tribe and religion.
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

Scout26

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Re: "We will die for Allah"
« Reply #53 on: December 02, 2015, 11:19:18 AM »
^^This.

Whether we want to admit it or not, we are in an existential war with Islam.  They are out to destroy our way of life.  And the only way we can win is to be better, as in quality of life, and ability to wage war.  If we show them (like we did communism) that our way of life provides a better future then what  they face along with the ability to go "To the Shores of Tripoli" to break all their toys and kill anyone who tries (or even thinks about trying) to hurt us.


Sadly, I think they only way they will get that message will result in the same way we got the last group of suicidal fanatics to farkin' knock it off.  We had to drop two nukes to make them stop.

ISIS wants that final Armageddon battle and I think we should give it to them, good and hard. 
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Perd Hapley

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Re: "We will die for Allah"
« Reply #54 on: December 02, 2015, 01:35:04 PM »
Bingo!

Substitute 'liberals' for 'muslims' (might as well leave the 'orthodox in there too), and the statement is still true.


Orthodox leftists? I think you mean antidox.
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T.O.M.

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Re: "We will die for Allah"
« Reply #55 on: December 02, 2015, 03:16:51 PM »
So, how does one wage war against an ideology/religion/fanaticism?  With the fanatics Scout mentioned, they had a home nation, they were in one general area, and their soldiers/sailors wore uniforms.  Ain't that easy here...
No, I'm not mtnbkr.  ;)

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Pb

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Re: "We will die for Allah"
« Reply #56 on: December 02, 2015, 03:37:38 PM »
I agree with roo_ster 100%.  You can't say it better than that.

Scout26

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Re: "We will die for Allah"
« Reply #57 on: December 02, 2015, 04:42:14 PM »
So, how does one wage war against an ideology/religion/fanaticism?  With the fanatics Scout mentioned, they had a home nation, they were in one general area, and their soldiers/sailors wore uniforms.  Ain't that easy here...

Col. Ralph Peterson gets it right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6h5oTWIhFk

If you do that, then the moderate Muslims remain "moderate".  If they see the radicals "winning", people (be they Muslim or other) gravitate towards winners.


Again, I'll point to Thomas Jefferson as an example.  Radical Islam (like Communism) only respects strength.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 08:18:04 PM by scout26 »
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Ron

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Re: "We will die for Allah"
« Reply #58 on: December 02, 2015, 05:07:48 PM »
So what do you want the American Muslims, immigrants and natural born alike, to do?

We have, conservatively, 5 million actual Muslims from the ME or 2nd/3rd generation that are US citizens.

Should they just let us shut down their mosques? Maybe round 'em up like we did with the Japs? Make them wear the star and crescent on their chest and put it in their home windows?

Maybe every town should have a goat *expletive deleted*er registry.

Why should moderate Muslims even stand up against the screaming beards when the US government has rolled over and showed its belly here stateside? 

For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

Scout26

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Re: "We will die for Allah"
« Reply #59 on: December 02, 2015, 08:30:26 PM »
So what do you want the American Muslims, immigrants and natural born alike, to do?

We have, conservatively, 5 million actual Muslims from the ME or 2nd/3rd generation that are US citizens.

Should they just let us shut down their mosques? Maybe round 'em up like we did with the Japs? Make them wear the star and crescent on their chest and put it in their home windows?

Maybe every town should have a goat *expletive deleted*er registry.

Why should moderate Muslims even stand up against the screaming beards when the US government has rolled over and showed its belly here stateside? 



No, we still have to be "US", the first Amendment is sacrosanct.  However, if you use your religious forum to forment the illegal activities (murder, arson, killing, overthrowing the us.gov*, and the like), then like the Klan you should be shut down, and if not a US citizen, sent back to you country of origin.  If a US citizen, then prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.   

Probably most of the mosques in the US are no more centers of terrorism then anyone house of worship.  However, that doesn't mean that there are zero.  The Muslim community (ies) know which mosques and Imam's are preaching hate and destruction, so it shouldn't be to hard to figure out which ones to check into further.

Again, we've done it with the Klan and Neo-Nazi's and other groups.  We can do it here.



*- There's a big difference between "Our Doctrine doesn't support X, even though X is legal.  We ask that you not do X, and work to change X through peaceful means. " and "Go kill all the Y's and overthrow the .gov to install  our form of government."
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

zahc

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Re: "We will die for Allah"
« Reply #60 on: December 02, 2015, 09:27:59 PM »
Col. Ralph Peterson gets it right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6h5oTWIhFk


He does not address the problem of identification, and neither do you.
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txgho1911

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Re: "We will die for Allah"
« Reply #61 on: December 02, 2015, 09:36:08 PM »
Fistful,

Your skills in de-escalation are artful...
socialnewswatchDOTcom instead of Drudge

T.O.M.

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Re: "We will die for Allah"
« Reply #62 on: December 02, 2015, 09:50:15 PM »
Scout and roo_ster, I'll add one thing.  Looks like this deal in California might be tied to ISIS or which ever group of terrorist slime it is.  Wanna shoot those guys?  Find them, and I'll load mags for you until your trigger fingers wear out.
No, I'm not mtnbkr.  ;)

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brimic

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Re: "We will die for Allah"
« Reply #63 on: December 02, 2015, 10:01:03 PM »
No, we still have to be "US", the first Amendment is sacrosanct.  However, if you use your religious forum to forment the illegal activities (murder, arson, killing, overthrowing the us.gov*, and the like), then like the Klan you should be shut down, and if not a US citizen, sent back to you country of origin.  If a US citizen, then prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.   

Probably most of the mosques in the US are no more centers of terrorism then anyone house of worship.  However, that doesn't mean that there are zero.  The Muslim community (ies) know which mosques and Imam's are preaching hate and destruction, so it shouldn't be to hard to figure out which ones to check into further.

Again, we've done it with the Klan and Neo-Nazi's and other groups.  We can do it here.



*- There's a big difference between "Our Doctrine doesn't support X, even though X is legal.  We ask that you not do X, and work to change X through peaceful means. " and "Go kill all the Y's and overthrow the .gov to install  our form of government."

Mosques are as much symbols if conquezt as they are 'religeous centers.' Theur entire religeon = conquest and subjugation of infidels.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

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Barack Obama

Scout26

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Re: "We will die for Allah"
« Reply #64 on: December 02, 2015, 10:07:35 PM »
He does not address the problem of identification, and neither do you.

Last I checked they have setup their own "state" (even if we don't recognize it as such) with their "capital" of Raqqa.  Notify Allies and Russians what we intend to do, then only thing needed is to "Dial-a-Yield".

They want an apocalyptic battle, we'll give it to them, good and hard.

Again, the last time we fought a "nation-state" (and that's what ISIS has become) of suicidal fanatics, we had to nuke them twice to get them to stop.  I don't see any other way here to do the same and send a message to the next group of Batshit crazies that are thinking to give it a go.  "We will farkin' atomize your ass if you come after us, capiche'?"   
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Ron

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Re: "We will die for Allah"
« Reply #65 on: December 03, 2015, 09:22:36 AM »
Just out of curiosity.

How much immigration was allowed during the Cold War from Soviet bloc countries?

 
For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity, that they may be without excuse. Because knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, and didn’t give thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.

roo_ster

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Re: "We will die for Allah"
« Reply #66 on: December 03, 2015, 10:51:47 AM »
So what do you want the American Muslims, immigrants and natural born alike, to do?

We have, conservatively, 5 million actual Muslims from the ME or 2nd/3rd generation that are US citizens.

Go back to one of the scores of countries where Islam is the dominant religion.  And take their more-likely-than daddy-to-be-jihadi chilluns with them.  Or be forced to assimilate and give up most of their culture, save harmless trappings, as the Germans were forced to do during WWI.  And as ought to have happened in a more vigorous manner to the Irish, Italians, Jews, and others who came after WWI.  American of Irish dropping cash in the NORAID can or Americans of Jewish descent giving to AZM is analogous to Americans of German descent giving to the German-American Bund.  All three are expressing the same sentiment.  Ditto for Mexicans sending cash south.

Should they just let us shut down their mosques? Maybe round 'em up like we did with the Japs? Make them wear the star and crescent on their chest and put it in their home windows?

Maybe every town should have a goat *expletive deleted*er registry.

Islam is similar to communism in that it is a total soup-to-nuts philosophy that is antithetical to western values and civilization in general and to the COTUS in particular.  IOW, adherence to orthodox islam is treason.  We should no more tolerate ostentatious display of islam than we did of communism when we were in an existential struggle with it.

Why should moderate Muslims even stand up against the screaming beards when the US government has rolled over and showed its belly here stateside? 

Again, the train is fine.

Gov't may bloat day by day, but it is less relevant day by day.   Unless gov't comes to terms with the new realities(1) in the world, it will collapse of a massive coronary and will crush a multitude as it goes down. 

Orthodox Islam and orthodox muslims have little to fear from us.gov, but much to fear from Americans if Americans get their ire up.  In their hearts, many in the establishment understand this, which is why we continually have a massive "frontlash" whenever some "urban youth" commits a heinous crime that the MSM is unable to smother and the same whenever some orthodox muslim decides to follow the dictates of orthodox islam and murder a baker's dozen or more of solid citizens in the name of aloha snackbar.





(1) Economic, political, religious, ethnic, etc.

Scout and roo_ster, I'll add one thing.  Looks like this deal in California might be tied to ISIS or which ever group of terrorist slime it is.  Wanna shoot those guys?  Find them, and I'll load mags for you until your trigger fingers wear out.

When all is said and done, I don't particularly care about orthodox muslims.  I am perfectly content to let them live in whatever state of depravity they desire, as long as they do it in their own country.  The problems arise when orthodox muslims and folk from the West(2) mix. 




(2) Or OMs and Hindus, or OM and Phillipinos, or OM and non-OM Africans, or...
Regards,

roo_ster

“Fallacies do not cease to be fallacies because they become fashions.”
----G.K. Chesterton

brimic

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Re: "We will die for Allah"
« Reply #67 on: December 03, 2015, 10:55:29 AM »
Quote
Orthodox Islam and orthodox muslims have little to fear from us.gov, but much to fear from Americans if Americans get their ire up.  In their hearts, many in the establishment understand this, which is why we continually have a massive "frontlash" whenever some "urban youth" commits a heinous crime that the MSM is unable to smother and the same whenever some orthodox muslim decides to follow the dictates of orthodox islam and murder a baker's dozen or more of solid citizens in the name of aloha snackbar.


To this day, I think the world would look a lot different today if the 9/11 attackers crashed planes into the UN building instead of the WTC.
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama

AJ Dual

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Re: "We will die for Allah"
« Reply #68 on: December 03, 2015, 11:47:47 AM »
Islam is similar to communism in that it is a total soup-to-nuts philosophy that is antithetical to western values and civilization in general and to the COTUS in particular.  IOW, adherence to orthodox islam is treason.  We should no more tolerate ostentatious display of islam than we did of communism when we were in an existential struggle with it.

And that's what's got me pulling my hair out.  The both the hyper-PC SJW Left, and the more mainstream Left, which is constantly on watch for the regressive ultra-conservative patriarchy to harm them, chain them, rape them, repress them, kill them etc...

WELL THERE IT IS.

Yet they see downplaying radical Islam as tactic or weapon in the culture war with America's nominal Libertarian/Right/Traditional axis.
I promise not to duck.

KD5NRH

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Re: "We will die for Allah"
« Reply #69 on: December 03, 2015, 01:57:17 PM »
To this day, I think the world would look a lot different today if the 9/11 attackers crashed planes into the UN building instead of the WTC.

Talk about mixed emotions; hundreds of innocents killed in the planes, but the UN reduced to a smoking crater.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: "We will die for Allah"
« Reply #70 on: December 03, 2015, 04:08:12 PM »
Talk about mixed emotions; hundreds of innocents killed in the planes, but the UN reduced to a smoking crater.

The thought of the second half of that equation gives me a bit of a chub...
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

Samuel Adams

Scout26

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Re: "We will die for Allah"
« Reply #71 on: December 03, 2015, 06:01:15 PM »
Given the damage the UN has done around the world, I'd quibble about the whole "innocents" part of the above...
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

Hawkmoon

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Re: "We will die for Allah"
« Reply #72 on: December 03, 2015, 07:27:56 PM »
Given the damage the UN has done around the world, I'd quibble about the whole "innocents" part of the above...

The "innocents" referred to the passengers in the hijacked aircraft.
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Scout26

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Re: "We will die for Allah"
« Reply #73 on: December 03, 2015, 11:10:35 PM »
I stand corrected...
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


Bring me my Broadsword and a clear understanding.
Get up to the roundhouse on the cliff-top standing.
Take women and children and bed them down.
Bless with a hard heart those that stand with me.
Bless the women and children who firm our hands.
Put our backs to the north wind.
Hold fast by the river.
Sweet memories to drive us on,
for the motherland.

brimic

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Re: "We will die for Allah"
« Reply #74 on: December 04, 2015, 12:56:23 AM »
The "innocents" referred to the passengers in the hijacked aircraft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem
"now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb" -Dark Helmet

"AK47's belong in the hands of soldiers mexican drug cartels"-
Barack Obama