Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: J.J. on October 14, 2009, 06:34:58 AM
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Maybe y'all can offer some advice.
One month ago I bought a newly constructed spec home. Brand new subdivision house completed in July.
Well in the one month that I have lived in this house I can't open one closet door now matter how hard I try. Two other door won't latch shut I am getting a few hairline cracks in the joints of the Sheetrock. The caulking between the kitchen counter and tile backsplash is seperating(cracking) The driveway has a crack 1/4 inch wide. The driveway and the house are now seperated by a 1 inch gap that is 5 inches deep. The grout inbetween the stone veener on ext. is cracking (again) and the caulking on the hardi board and stone veener is cracking (again)
And the road is seperated from the driveway by what us now a 2 inch wide 10 inch deep gap....
I am getting concerneed. Of course Lennar will
Fix these issues but I'm starting to wonder if it is just going to be a cosmetic fix and the underlying problem is gonna be ignored. Yes Texas just had a bad drought and in the last month we have actually recieved much needed rain. But is this excessive.
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Sorry, but no info on engineers in your area. Maybe contact the Big State University School of Engineering nearest to you?
Do you have a warrantee on the place? Read it very carefully to see if you are covered. Here in Central Virginia we had a spate of homes effected by shrink-swell soil. Sounds like what you are going through is similar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midlothian,_Virginia - see Soil Problems section
http://www.chesterfield.gov/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=4118
http://louisacounty.com/LCcommdev/Planning19c.htm - these folks might know of companies in your area. Never hurts to ask.
http://leg2.state.va.us/DLS/H&SDocs.NSF/4d54200d7e28716385256ec1004f3130/9332a4b96a10eec385255ffd0068a18f?OpenDocument
http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opnscvwp/1960352.pdf - cracks in foundation found to be related to violation of building code. Legal stuff can be your friend.
http://www.dmme.virginia.gov/DMR3/expansivesoils.shtml
http://www.smartmoney.com/comments/?EntryID=26297&EntryType=SMStory - some stuff on shrink-swell AND some stuff on Texas.
http://www.spotsylvania.va.us/emplibrary/Fall__05.pdf - Virginia activity on shrink-swell causes national building code changes.
http://www.foundationrepairnetwork.com/homeowners_sc.htm
http://www.clarkecounty.gov/docman/20_building_department/view_category.html - a County Code for the issue . See if your county has anything similar.
http://twri.tamu.edu/funding/mills/2009-10/dinka.pdf - maybe follow up on this study?
http://foundationsolution.com/North_Texas_Soil_Technical_.html
http://cedb.asce.org/cgi/WWWdisplay.cgi?0704333 - technical stuff that may provide background help if you need to go to court.
http://www.geog.unt.edu/~pdong/courses/4550/reports/Nepali_Anjeev_2007.pdf - Dallas/Ft. Worth specific.
http://www.homeownersoftexas.org/Soil_Issues.pdf - Texas homeowners association dealing with the issue.
http://www.texasinspector.com/nthome.html
http://www.depts.ttu.edu/ceweb/Graduate/Phd.php - these folks seem to grant Ph.D. in shrink-swell.
http://www.dawsonfoundationrepair.com/houston.php - these folks say they can fix you right up.
Having seen the damage from shrink-swell soil locally, I sympathize with you and hope you can get the bastidges in the pocketbook. They should have known about the problem and built to prevent damage.
Keep us posted.
stay safe.
skidmark
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Parts of TX are known for shifting soil - it may be that you're one of those affected.
Some builders have also been going to a relatively new foundation method whereby cables (rather than rebar) are used to "tension" the slabs. From what I've heard, sometimes these don't work too well; I've heard of cables breaking. See if you can find out whether they used cable tension or rebar for your home.
Some years back, there was a scandal here in the Austin area about some home builders putting down the proper amount of rebar for inspection, and then pulling half of it up before the concrete was poured. Hope this isn't your problem. :O
Since it's a brand new home in a new development, you ought to have a HOW, or Homeowner's Warranty. Read it and invoke it.
If that doesn't work, park your car in your driveway with a BIG placard on it that says "WARNING - THIS BUILDER SOLD US A HOME WITH A BAD FOUNDATION AND WON'T FIX IT!!!"
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Texas Residential Construction Commission.
http://www.trcc.state.tx.us/default.asp
Brad
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It is a Post Tension Slab... I am less than 2 miles south of my old house... and on the other side of I-35 (3 miles tops from my first house) I didn't have a single problem like this in my last house and it was post tension also.
I am worried cause we have less than 10 people living in this subdivision and I talked to a person on the other "end" of the subdivision and he is having worse issues...
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As VA said, check on if you have a home warranty and read the fine print on what it covers. I'm not a lawyer and don't even play one on TV, but if multiple homes in a new subdivision are having the same problem, you should have legal recourse. You guys might even be able to get a city / county engineer to look at it for free if it's affecting the entire subdivision, since it could be considered a safety issue.
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It is a Post Tension Slab... I am less than 2 miles south of my old house... and on the other side of I-35 (3 miles tops from my first house) I didn't have a single problem like this in my last house and it was post tension also.
I am worried cause we have less than 10 people living in this subdivision and I talked to a person on the other "end" of the subdivision and he is having worse issues...
Based on all the links I gave you, shrink-swell is a known problem i Texas and there are a number of things that have happened that make it possible that you can get some sort of both structural and financial relief. Texas Homeowners Association seems to be the place to start. You probably also need to make a trip to the local planning/zoning office to see what they have on the books re: requirements for foundations and for soil tests to determine what type of fdoundation is needed. A quick read says post-tension slabs are not suited to shrink-swell, but I might have missed something so do not take this as gospel. OOPS! Re-read stuff & that is one of the recommended ways to go.
Contact the county engineer and the building inspector's offices. Verify that all he "i's" were dotted and the "t's" crossed by the builder, both for permits and for building code compliance. Verify that a building inspector actually was on-site and inspected everything.
Contact your homeowner's and title insurance companies and not only ask them for guidance but for steps in filing claims based on fraud by the builder. Make them see that they could be buying your house from you and financing you into a new one that is compliant with codes and laws.
I put in a link to a commercial outfit that says they deal with fixing these sorts of problems. Discuss with your homeowner's insurance about them hiring them, or a like firm more local to you, for an independent analysis and cost estimate for any repair/remediation work. Remind them that they can recover the expenses from the builder if basic construction errors, code/permit violations, or fraud are discovered, as opposed to merely getting your place fixed.
If nothing else, pay a commercial outfit to inspect/analayze on your own dime and then go after recovery from homeowner's insurance.
From what you are saying about the neighborhood in general, it sounds like you have a pretty good case on your hands. Again, go see what Texas Homeowners Association has been doing about the issue & see about following their steps.
Keep us posted.
stay safe.
skidmark
edited to correct my poor reading skills. =) And once again to correct my bad typing. =(
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Skidmark - Reading thru the links right now... I worked a 15 hour shift so not all of it is sinking in....the deeper intellect section of my brain is shutting down as the hours go by.
I have decided the best bet would be to hold off on the repair work and hire a structural engineer... As soon as I mentioned the issues to the lady who sold the house she offered to escalate the trouble ticket to corporate... (sounds like stuff I say when I know Home Office is doing something stupid but can't help it...) And When I got the number for the guy I needed he offered to send his own structural engineer out...so I don't have to pay...I don't trust that option.... If we have a problem they will repay me.
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Maybe y'all can offer some advice.
One month ago I bought a newly constructed spec home. Brand new subdivision house completed in July.
Well in the one month that I have lived in this house I can't open one closet door now matter how hard I try. Two other door won't latch shut I am getting a few hairline cracks in the joints of the Sheetrock. The caulking between the kitchen counter and tile backsplash is seperating(cracking) The driveway has a crack 1/4 inch wide. The driveway and the house are now seperated by a 1 inch gap that is 5 inches deep. The grout inbetween the stone veener on ext. is cracking (again) and the caulking on the hardi board and stone veener is cracking (again)
And the road is seperated from the driveway by what us now a 2 inch wide 10 inch deep gap....
I am getting concerneed. Of course Lennar will
Fix these issues but I'm starting to wonder if it is just going to be a cosmetic fix and the underlying problem is gonna be ignored. Yes Texas just had a bad drought and in the last month we have actually recieved much needed rain. But is this excessive.
Much of the ground in Texas is comprised of expansive clay soils. These soils are a structural nightmare, because clay shrinks when dry, and expands "significantly" when wet. In fact, one of the traditional materials for waterproofing basements is sheets of clay in a degradable paper. Once the foundation has been backfilled, the paper can degrade and the layer of clay just stays there. If there's water in the ground, the clay swells up and seals it out from reaching the foundation walls.
My guess is that your house is on expansive clay soil and that you can expect to see similar behavior for as long as you live there, if there are major variations in the moisture content of the soil beneath the house. All the symptoms you describe ate typical of "differential settlement," which is the term used when one side or part of a foundation settles (or rises) more than the other side. When that happens, the superstructure (the wood frame) gets twisted out of shape.
Got any wood or tile floors? Drop a marble and see if it rolls by itself. I'd expect that your floors aren't level at this point.
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Don't even think about repairs until you've covered ALL legal and regulatory bases. I'd recommend lawyering up initially just to see what your rights are. Nothing worse than foundation problems.
BTW, keep a log of events and conversations.
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It is a Post Tension Slab... I am less than 2 miles south of my old house... and on the other side of I-35 (3 miles tops from my first house) I didn't have a single problem like this in my last house and it was post tension also.
Go down to the library and look at a soil type map: Texas is pretty entertaining from that standpoint, and I'd bet there are at least three or four different types of soil between your old house and new one. We have three different soil types on our 10 acres of land, which is something we'll have to account for when we get ready to build there. (Fortunately, bedrock is generally 3-8 ft deep around there, so running piers to it is an option...or if it's closer to 3, scraping off some dirt and pouring the footers right on it.)
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I think the main thing is to keep after the builder - "squeaky wheel gets the oil" and all that. If other people are having problems (and from your post it seems they are) you really, really want to be at the head of the line in getting things sorted out. Make sure there are records of all correspondence and other communications (I'd consider using registered mail) and you really ought to consult with a local attorney - a couple of hundred bucks for his time may be money well spent.
I've heard that "lawyer letters" can spark action that ordinary correspondence won't.
If the builder, his insurer, or whoever has a limited pool of money to deal with these problems, you want to get your piece of it before it runs out. (Think about this: the guys who "cashed out" with Bernie Madoff several years ago did OK. The guys who let things ride - didn't.)
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That's one good thing about my house (13 years old now) - no problem with soil shifting in the low hills just west of Austin, near Lake Travis.
In my yard, I have a couple of inches of the "sandy loam" that the builder put down, then several inches of caliche . . . and then limestone. (When I put in a sprinkler system, I'm glad I didn't decide to do it myself . . . chiseling trenches through solid rock wouldn't have been fun.) So there's not a lot of soil under my foundation to shift.
The disadvantage is that my lawn sucks, since even buffalo grass can only put roots down a few inches.
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Texas has some specif laws and procedures to follow. Getting an experienced lawyer seems to be step #1 - and possibly problematic. http://www.homeownersoftexas.org/Consumer-Advice.html
Go here http://ezinearticles.com/?Texas-Laws-Can-Be-Crazy-For-Builders-and-Homeowners&id=2410904 for some suggestions on how to proceed.
stay safe.
skidmark
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Structural Engineer is here now doing his thing. Just received a call from the Director of Construction for San Antonio - during the course of the conversation he admitted that we have issues. The model home has the same issues and other houses in the neighborhood. He says they will not run from the problem and do everything they can to fix it....The wife stated that she is afraid its unfixable and maybe expansive soil.... His response was - "I will tell you right now you are on expansive soil."
*#*% $*$@ GRRR!!!!!
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Did you at least get a kiss?
stay safe.
skidmark
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House has a 4 inch slope from one front corner to opposite rear corner....total foundation repair recommended...
The word of the day is "lemon". J.J. Owns a lemon....
Structural engineer says it usually takes 2 years to get out if the builder doesn't cooperate..
off to buy a bottle of wine and some takeout...
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total foundation repair recommended...
Call a repair company with the engineer's report in hand. Get a quote. Present it to the builder. Their insurance might just pay on the spot.
Brad
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sometimes its not nearly as bad as folks think
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sometimes its not nearly as bad as folks think
And sometimes it is.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi176.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw186%2Fvaskidmark%2Ffun%2520pictures%2Fschoolpictures.jpg&hash=a329cb760294299d7a69041f5f7de3ef5b37dd61)
stay safe.
skidmark
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I'm not at all expert on construction in/on expansive soils, because we don't have them in my part of the galaxy, but I'm rather dubious that it can be "fixed." Which makes promises that "We'll do all we can to fix it" less than reassuring, regardless of how sincere they are, because after you have done all you can to fix the unfixable ... in the end it remains unfixed.
How about just asking them for your money back?
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I'm not at all expert on construction in/on expansive soils, because we don't have them in my part of the galaxy, but I'm rather dubious that it can be "fixed." Which makes promises that "We'll do all we can to fix it" less than reassuring, regardless of how sincere they are, because after you have done all you can to fix the unfixable ... in the end it remains unfixed.
Can be done, just not the easy way. It usually involved driving piles through the slab and waaaay down into the ground, or injecting grout or cement into the soil underneat the slab.
Brad
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tghe grout injection can be quite interesting seen it raise a house up
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How about suing the local .gov the issued/approved the building permits. Aren't they supposed to be the smart people to prevent things like this happening ?? Isn't that the reason why we have to pay for permits and present plans and studies for them to approve ?? Looks like they screwed the pooch on this one buy allowing those houses to built there using those plans/materials/techniques.
Having gone through the run-around that petty bureaucrats specialize in when we were trying build trap and skeet houses, I think they ought to have their feet held to the fire when things go south.
If I ever get elected to anything public, first thing I'm going to do is fire all the Planning and Zoning people. Morons....
GRRRRRRRR !!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:
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Doesn't sound like a structure problem. More like a site prep / soil compaction problem.
Brad
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Resigned to a long haul... Starting to find the excuses amusing.
I did have a representative of the Builder walk through my house. All he said was It could be 3 sides of the house risen and not one side sinking.... (wow thats SO MUCH BETTER...) and they will fix any issues I have cosmetic or if I have a structural problem.. so I responded "I told you already my structural engineer said that the house has a 4 inch change in elevation from one corner of the house to the other.. that is a structural problem"
One of the other people who is having issues with his house used the Builders Structural engineer and recieved his report yesterday. I will post some of the funnier parts. His house is a few months older and he is experiencing more "cosmetic issues" than I am as of yet, and has been since before the drought ended. Now for the unbelievable report that my neighbor received.
Discussion
An upheaval of the foundation has occurred around the perimeter of the foundation... The home is located in an area of expansive clay soils that tend to experience volumetric changes with changes in soil moisture content. When the moisture content of the soil increases, the soil expands, which can result in foundation upheaval. When the oisutre content of the soil decreases, the soil shrinks, which results in foundation settlement.
The foundation upheaval that has occurred at the subject residence is common in homes located in expansive clay soils. Flowwing the clearing of the ot and construction of the foudation, seasonal moisure and moisture from irrigation of landscaping infilltrates the soild beneath the perimeter of the foundaion resulting in upheaval......BLAH BLAH BLAH
The soil beneath the foundation will generally stabilize after a period of two to four years depending upon climatic conditions...
Conclusion
No structural damage or failure of the foundation system was observed and no foundation repairs are recommended for structural purposes.
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So it says oh it will fix itself in 2-4 years. I guess thats because according to the Mayan calendar the world ends in 2012....(yeah I know thats been debunked but still..) Or if Central Texas stops having droughts and rainy seasons the problem will fix itself.
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BS. If the structure is located on known expansive soils, the lot should be prepared in a way that compensates. If they didn't, that's definitely a builder issue.
Call the TREC builder line. It's in the link I posted above. TREC (Texas Real Estate Commission) exists as a licensing authority and consumer advocate. They should be able to get you started down the right path.
Brad
Brad
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Can be done, just not the easy way. It usually involved driving piles through the slab and waaaay down into the ground, or injecting grout or cement into the soil underneat the slab.
Brad
I know all about grout injection. But that only works in/on stable soils. If you inject grout to level a structure that's resting on expansive clay soil -- you still have a structure that's resting on expansive clay soil and the next time it rains (or dries out, depending on the condition of the soil when they do the injection) ... the problem starts all over.
Driving piles through the expansive clay to a stable substratum is a possibility, but how do you drive piles through a completed house and, once the piles are in place, how do you anchor the foundation to the piles to isolate the structure from the expansive clay underpinnings?
Best approach, IMHO, remains to get your money back (if possible) and move on.