The hell is Jobs thinking with this new design?

[Manedwolf]

This is supposed to be the workhorse professional laptop. The current one, you can bring it into a studio, drag over the big DVI cable from the overhead screens and plug it in, find a FW-400 cable from a digital video camera or music workstation and plug it in, have a flash drive and two more USB external controllers like a jog-shuttle or the like...and get to work.



Eliminated one of the three USB ports of the current Macbook Pro.

Eliminated the DVI port of the current Macbook Pro. What is "mini display port"?

Eliminated the FW-400 that MOST CAMERAS AND MUSICAL INSTRUMENT INTERFACES USE!...and left FW-800.

What the hell, Steve?

[BrokenPaw]

Bet you that the mini display port is just a smaller form-factor HDMI port.  With a proprietary plug.  That requires a special cable.  That you have to pay more for.  And only comes in gold-plated, for extra-crisp ones and zeroes in the digital signal.

Is FW800 not backward compatible with FW400?

About the only thing that I really geek out about on a mac is the magsafe power connection.  That's an idea that is unimaginably cool.

-BP

[charby]

Haven't you noticed that Apple runs popular, then they tank, then popular, then tank.

Its time for it to tank again.

[BridgeRunner]

Dunno, about that one, but you just seriously improved my day.  About time they ditched the white plasticy crap the low end laptops.  After drowning ours last week, I was seriously thinking about leaving Apple just because I'm tired of crappy white plastic, but can't spent $1800.

Still tempted by the Air though.  

[Manedwolf]

Is FW800 not backward compatible with FW400?

I don't know, but any video studio or music studio you go in, there will be shielded FW-400 cables from all sorts of equipment, from musical instrument XLR mike power/input/guitar input boxes like the PreSonus Inspire I have, or from any digital camcorder. The connector is NOT the same as FW-800 at all.

Dunno, about that one, but you just seriously improved my day.  About time they ditched the white plasticy crap the low end laptops.  After drowning ours last week, I was seriously thinking about leaving Apple just because I'm tired of crappy white plastic, but can't spent $1800.

No, this is the new Pro, which has always been aluminum-cased. That's why I'm puzzled, since the Pro is Apple's diesel pickup worktruck laptop. It's supposed to be raw horsepower and standard plugs, not cute.

Mine, the current-gen 17" Core 2 Duo 2.33gHz, is plugged into a big second flatpanel with a shielded, heavy screwdown 28-pin DVI-I connector. It usually has connectors out all sides when working, FW-800 is plugged into three chained drives with 2TB of swap space, FW-400 is for cameras with raw footage that come in and need to be dumped onto it. It's made to be a production machine. If they let style get in the way of substance here, people aren't going to buy it.

Also, I HATE THE GLOSSY SCREEN. One bright light overhead and it's useless. I ordered matte for a reason.

[AJ Dual]

Apple = HK

Company motto:

"Because you suck, and we hate you." 

[Manedwolf]

Apple = HK

Company motto:

"Because you suck, and we hate you." 

When they're good, they're good. This laptop gets pounded on every day producing content and never crashes or complains, even when both fans are going at 6000rpm on a six-hour HD video compression. It's a workhorse.

But design changes like this are just...stupid.

[AJ Dual]

But design changes like this are just...stupid.

I prefer the term... punative. 

[BridgeRunner]

No, this is the new Pro, which has always been aluminum-cased. That's why I'm puzzled, since the Pro is Apple's diesel pickup worktruck laptop. It's supposed to be raw horsepower and standard plugs, not cute.

Yep, but I only noticed the new line, including the new cheap stuff when you started this thread.  I was commenting generally on the new changes.

[Kwelz]

My Macbook pro only has 2 USB ports on it.  The 17 inch is the only one that has ever had 3.
The Mini Display port is still DVI, just smaller on one end.  I would have preferred HDMI to be honest though.
and Firewire 800 is completely backwards compatible with FW400 and there are many cables that go from FW800->FW400

I like the new machine but will stick with my 2.5Ghz machine. 

One thing I really like is the dual Video cards.  One for Battery life and one for Performance. 

[Harold Tuttle]

http://www.apple.com/macbook/#designvideo

[Marvin Dao]

Hate to spoil your rant, but it seems like the only difference for your use would be a few extra dongles and a glossy screen. You won't even lose any FireWire speed as the FW800 and FW400 ports are internally daisy chained on the previous MBP generation. If for some reason you really hate dongles or glossy screens (as it seems to the case), there's always the 17" which is staying exactly the same.

My bet is that Apple sells far more 15" MBPs to consumers than they do professionals and the changes they made to their product line reflects that.

[longeyes]

Jobs has always been a bit too taken with style and environmental purity at the expense of inelegant functionality.  Steve likes green, both environmentally and margin-wise.

I have similar needs, and I don't like the decisions on screens and ports either.  Dropping Firewire on the Macbook's a mistake, and we ought to have a matte display option at least.

And where is the Mac netbook for $700?

[Harold Tuttle]

The new MacBook, 15-inch MacBook Pro and MacBook Air include a next generation, industry-standard Mini DisplayPort to connect with the new Apple LED Cinema Display featuring a 24-inch LED-backlit widescreen display with a built-in iSight(R) video camera, mic and speakers in an elegant, thin aluminum and glass enclosure. Part of the next-generation DisplayPort industry standard, the new Mini DisplayPort delivers a pure digital signal that can drive up to a 30-inch widescreen display. The Mini DisplayPort is ultra- compact at just 10 percent the size of a full DVI connector, perfect for the sleek design of the new MacBook family. Adapters are available for using the MacBook's Mini DisplayPort with older generation VGA, DVI/HDMI and Dual-Link DVI displays.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/new-macbook-family-redefines-notebook/story.aspx?guid=%7BB0E3B902-E909-44D5-989C-2A453B8B9750%7D&dist=hppr


On October 14, 2008, Apple introduced several products featuring a Mini DisplayPort as their sole video connector. Apple indicated that this was a first step in transitioning their line of products to DisplayPort technology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DisplayPort

Advantages over DVI

Based on micro-packet protocol.
Allows easy expansion of the standard
Allows multiple video streams over single physical connection (in a future version)
Designed to support internal chip-to-chip communication
Can drive display panels directly, eliminating control circuits and allowing for cheaper and slimmer displays
Aimed to replace internal LVDS links in notebook panels with a unified link interface
Dual-mode DisplayPort is capable of backward compatibility with single link DVI/HDMI (active converter adapters or dongles are required for dual link DVI and analog VGA).
Supports both RGB and YCbCr color spaces (ITU-R BT.601 and BT.709 format).
Auxiliary channel can be used for touch-panel data, USB links, camera, microphone, etc.
Fewer lanes with embedded clock reduce RFI.
Slimmer cables and a much smaller connector that doesn't require thumbscrews. Connector pins don't run the risk of bending if improperly handled.
The DisplayPort connector is easier to connect when guided only by touch.

[Gewehr98]

Just another glamorous iProduct, long on style, short on substance.

I see in my latest All Services Exchange Small Wonders flyer/catalog that they're pushing the 160Gb Apple TV, as well as the 8Gb iPod.

Woo-hoo.   

[Kwelz]

How is it short on substance?  An equivalent Dell or HP is going to be more and not have all the features. 

[Manedwolf]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the current generation Pro, which is a serious piece of professional hardware with all the features needed for use in recording studios and on movie sets. The current one makes any Dell or other laptop look like a plastic toy that should be limited to use by sales reps to do Powerpoint on, because they'd all choke on things like HD video editing and realtime multitrack studio recording.

It's the design changes that make it less able, IMO, that I'm puzzled at.

[ctdonath]

Apple has always designed toward where Jobs wants the industry to be, not to the aging equipment customers have.

PCs were long cursed by excessive backwards compatability, dragging along legacy Centronics printer ports and (even now) little-used serial ports long after nearly all users abandoned such support. Likewise DOS (still supported!), certain memory models, etc. All this held technology back in terms of "here's a slick new design, crippled by legacy support".

Part of Apple's success (imperfect as it may be) is an aggressively updated list of what's current, supported, and obsolete. FireWire may still be in use, but mostly just by hardcore users sticking with aging equipment; as a FW user myself, I'm a bit miffed the Air (and now others) won't support it inherently, but that persuades me to re-examine the camera I'm using and realize maybe an upgrade is in order. That massive DVI connector takes up a full cubic inch of precious laptop volume, and really does need replacement. Ditto for other aging connectors used by relatively few.

Apple has long tweaked users by abandoning certain capabilities early. Considering that SOMEONE will be peeved off no matter what is done, the choice made is usually wise in the long run.

[Harold Tuttle]

the "new" 17 inch macbook pro is your production grade huckleberry

[Manedwolf]

Actually, FW-800 is superior to USB 2.0 for external hard drive use. It's faster, and the connector design can be more heavily shielded. USB's connector is rather weak.

[mtnbkr]

little-used serial ports long after nearly all users abandoned such support.

Serial ports are still used quite a bit when dealing with network devices.  USB-Serial adaptors don't always work.

Chris

[Silver Bullet]

Dropping Firewire on the Macbook's a mistake, and we ought to have a matte display option at least.

I agree.  Dropping the FireWire port on the new MacBooks is a serious bummer; I was thinking about getting one.  I love the new milled-out aluminum case.  Now I have to figure out if I really want to save up $2000 for the MacBook Pro, or wait for the next MacBook and hope Apple sees the error of its ways.

Actually, FW-800 is superior to USB 2.0 for external hard drive use. It's faster

Much faster.  Even FW-400, although nominally 400 MB/sec, is in practice faster than USB 2.0 (nominally 480 MB/sec).  Plus, FireWire has many more features, such as peer-to-peer connectivity.  The only downside to FireWire is that it is more expensive to implement.

[Gewehr98]

How is it short on substance?  An equivalent Dell or HP is going to be more and not have all the features.

Dell and HP/Compaq aren't the only folks who make notebooks, last I heard. There are many professional-grade notebook manufacturers out there, rivaling or just plain embarassing the iProduct shown at the top of this thread.  Hell, I am considering an AlienWare Area-51® m17x as my next notebook purchase. 

In the skinny notebook realm, just off the top of my head, I know of a few notebooks that are just as svelte as the MacBook Air, yet pack considerably more punch.

1. Lenovo (formerly IBM) ThinkPad X300

2.  Lenovo ThinkPad X61

3. Samsung X360

It's ok, I understand Jobs has already raised the ante' with the next iProduct:

http://help.lockergnome.com/general/iNvisible-iBook-Beats-MacBook-Air-ftopict54368.html

[libertynews]

Remember that Apple (or Steve) is usually ahead of the curve. There are adapters to allow you to use your older equipment with the new ports, and usually they are in the $20 range.

[Nitrogen]

He's thinking about all the money he's going to make.