Post by: zahc on October 05, 2006, 11:06:56 AM
I don't like the text, I don't understand it, and I'm still trying to understand chapter 4 and we have a test for chapter 6 next week. The book does the traditional historical development of thermo, so I can follow the math, and when the book does things they make sense, but there's this overwhelming feeling 'how am I supposed to solve problems'. I'm presented with a problem and I no have idea where to even start, or I chase the math in circles. In my E&M text this didn't happen, this hasn't happened in any other class; I could always read the book and understand what I needed to do.
There's nobody to ask because I'm a senior physics major. I can't even practice the problems in the book because I can't do them. The answers are in the back but it doesn't help. What I need is a solution key so I can walk through the solutions, I just need a little kick; I'm not stupid, really I'm not. There isn't a student solutions manual for this book; I have considered buying another text with solutions and working through them but that will take too much time. I can't ask the faculty because they don't have time to spend on material that has already been covered, digging me out of this situation I'm in. I really don't know what to do. It's not like it's going to get easier through the semester. I have never dropped, failed, or gotten less than a B in a physics class before, and the way things are going right now I have no idea how I'll pass. And if I don't pass I don't graduate.
Post by: charby on October 05, 2006, 11:14:45 AM
I wish I had advice for you other than study, study and study.
-C
Post by: Perd Hapley on October 05, 2006, 11:15:47 AM
Could you pick just two or three things to ask a professor about, and see if those don't unlock the rest? Maybe you could explain this problem to a professor like you just explained it to us.
Post by: zahc on October 05, 2006, 11:41:31 AM
Post by: HankB on October 05, 2006, 11:42:09 AM
We didn't have an assigned text.
For some reason, they assigned a professor to teach the course who HATED teaching that subject matter . . . he decided to use class time as a forum to talk about phenomenology. He told us everyone in class had an automatic "C" . . . if we turned in the take-home midterm, we'd get a "B" and if we turned in the take-home final, we'd get an "A" . . . and the tests would not be graded, even though all the problems were taken straight from one of those softcover student guides. (I forget what the name was, but we called them "Physics Cliff's Notes")
We were half-afraid that the rest of the faculty would do something to us (like not credit us with the course) but that didn't happen, and our "A" grades stood.
But the following year they reassigned the class to a real lousy, arrogant, abusive professor, who passed out two C's, one D, and flunked everyone else.
Post by: charby on October 05, 2006, 11:42:49 AM
Quote from: fistful
The faculty doesn't have time? Then what are they for?
Oh boy this could open a can of worms. I work at a land grant university and it seems more emphasis is placed on research than teaching. Funny thing is that their advertisements sure don't say it. Most engineering programs are at research institutions. Some professors look at teaching as a necessary evil to keep a position at a University, you can tell when taking a class who those professors are. -C
Post by: Bogie on October 05, 2006, 12:36:03 PM
Post by: 280plus on October 05, 2006, 02:13:15 PM
That C DID screw up my GPA though.
Post by: Shalako on October 05, 2006, 02:45:06 PM
Round 1: D+
Round 2: Tried to drop but filed to late ---> F
Round 3: B+
Hooray!
Post by: SomeKid on October 05, 2006, 02:48:24 PM
zahc, buy the other textbook if you must. Since you already stated you cannot retake the class, you have no choice but to do whatever it takes to pass. I feel for you, I really do. I am a Nursing major, and anytime I go to my professors about something they make me feel like an idiot. My remedy is quite literally to rely on only my own abilities. I take what they teach me in class, and run from there with the book.
Post by: zahc on October 05, 2006, 02:56:49 PM
Quote
anytime I go to my professors about something they make me feel like an idiot. My remedy is quite literally to rely on only my own abilities. I take what they teach me in class, and run from there with the book.
That's the way I feel exactly. Professors just, in reality, make me feel like I am imposing on them, tell me I'm stupid, and pressure me out of the office. My only hope is that I will somehow be able to pass even though I really don't know what I'm doing. I'm actually pretty good at somehow getting better grades than I deserve but I've never dipped this low before.
Post by: SomeKid on October 05, 2006, 03:14:56 PM
All I can do is share it with you my friend. It really sucks, but some teahcers are like that. (For the record, not ALL of my Nursing instructors make me feel dumb, just most of them give me bad vibes.)
The reason this problem occurs, is because of the requirements to teach these classes. All of my instructors are at LEAST MSN level people. (Master of Science in Nursing.) Most have PhDs. A few are full fledged Nurse Practictioners. These people aren't teaching for money. You would THINK that they would be doing it to teach, and their love of teaching and Nursing. I don't know what motivates them to teach, but it sure isn't love of teaching, and they know they can get high paying jobs if they want to. They don't need the job and they know it, you would think that if teaching had such lousy pay and bad benefits they wouldn't do it...
Post by: brimic on October 05, 2006, 03:44:30 PM
I didn't fail it, but I did pass it with about a 45% average.
Chemists don't die early because of exposure to chemicals, they dies because 2 semesters of P-Chem takes 10 years off their lives.
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on October 05, 2006, 03:55:09 PM
I know what it's like to have a professor who doesn't help. I know what it's like to not know where you're going to get the money you need to finish up. I know what kind of stress you're under right now. I've been there too. Lots of us have. It may be miserable right now, but it'll get better. In a few years you'll be just fine, and you'll probably even be glad that your schooling was as rigorous as it was.
I know this isn't what you want to hear. But a degree in a sybject like that isn't awarded to just anybody, and it isn't awarded based on BS platitudes like your hard work or having your heart in the right place. It's awarded for your achievement. The bottom line is that you haven't achieved their standards yet. Again there's no shame in that. Their standards are damned high, and that's a good thing.
Do your best this semester, and come back and try again next time. These degrees have to be earned, and earning them is very, very difficult.
Post by: Perd Hapley on October 05, 2006, 04:17:36 PM
Quote from: Headless Thompson Gunner
Their standards are damned high,
Bah. Their standards of teaching are low. Why is it that college students pay outrageous fees, and so often get terrible customer service from the profs?
Post by: Antibubba on October 05, 2006, 04:37:41 PM
Quote
After all these years I found a class that's getting best of me. Thermodynamics.
Just cool down, and I'm sure it will all come together.
Post by: CAnnoneer on October 05, 2006, 05:09:27 PM
If it is just thermodynamics, there are only a few concepts you need to get and then the rest is pretty easy. The math is not that challenging by comparison to many other things in physics, especially EM (well, it depends on the teaching level, but on average it is true).
Basic thermo is different ways to use the ideal gas law. A bunch of results come from it especially when combined with simple ideas about degrees of freedom and thermal capacity. Isothermal and adiabatic processes come next, and then you get Carnot's engine and calculation of efficiencies. Then entropy is introduced and you are pretty much through.
Stat mech is a bit more challenging, but if you understand the math and remember the definitions, it really is pretty linear.
Like I said, tell us what the particular issues are and we may be able to help out.
From the administrative perspective, if you feel you are running out of time, you can ask the prof for an incomplete and turn in the work later. Use the won time to absorb the material at your own pace. Another idea is to ask gradstudents at your institution for a few pointers. How come the prof has no T.A.'s for the course? Finally, don't you have classmates you know who take the same course? They may teach you some things too.
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on October 05, 2006, 05:17:29 PM
Quote from: fistful
Quote from: Headless Thompson Gunner
Their standards are damned high,
Bah. Their standards of teaching are low. Why is it that college students pay outrageous fees, and so often get terrible customer service from the profs?
I don't mean to cast aspersions at zahc, but it sounds like he let himself fall behind in a notoriously difficult class, then didn't bother to see the professor about it until it was too late. The professor is within his rights to provide only limited help.
"I'm sorry, but if you were falling behind you should have come to see me earlier. Now I'll have to spend this month teaching you what you should have learned last month. Next month I'll be teaching you what you're supposed to learn this month but didn't because you were too busy making up old work. It simply won't work. And I have too many other students who are trying to stay caught up, they need my help too."
I heard this speech twice, in classes where I'd let myself fall behind - thermo and dif eq. Each time I was pissed at the prof, and tried to blame him for my failings. But years later, now I realize that it was nobody's fault but mine, and the profs couldn't possibly have done anything differently. Whining about it, either at the time it happened or years later, doesn't solve anything.
Take responsibility, zahc. Bust your balls trying to catch up. Get as much help from your prof as he's willing to give. Maybe, just maybe, you'll still be able to pass. But if you don't pass, accept responsibility for it yourself, don't blame the textbook or the prof or whoever. Try again net semester, and resolve to do better.
Everyone fails sometime. Lord knows that I have plenty of times. You will too one of these days. It isn't the end of the world. Be glad you're still in school where they give you another chance in 4 months.
Post by: Perd Hapley on October 05, 2006, 05:46:58 PM
Quote from: Headless Thompson Gunner
The student is responsible for learning the material, period. Professor's are there to help. Sometimes life sucks and they don't help as much as someone would like. Too bad. It's still the student's responsibility to learn the material sufficiently to meet the standards. Whining about poor customer service is a BS excuse.
The students pay for instruction and the profs get paid to provide it. Office hours should be a part of that deal. Since when is it whining to complain that you're not getting what you paid for? But of course, it is up to the student to get all he can from the course. Having made A's in every class and the Dean's list my last three semesters, I certainly agree with that.
Of course, I don't know the particulars of zahc's situation.
Post by: DJJ on October 05, 2006, 05:50:59 PM
Post by: drewtam on October 05, 2006, 06:05:29 PM
Quote from: CAnnoneer
We may be able to help. Tell us a bit more what you find difficulty with. First, is it thermodynamics or statistical mechanics?
If it is just thermodynamics, there are only a few concepts you need to get and then the rest is pretty easy. The math is not that challenging by comparison to many other things in physics, especially EM (well, it depends on the teaching level, but on average it is true).
Basic thermo is different ways to use the ideal gas law. A bunch of results come from it especially when combined with simple ideas about degrees of freedom and thermal capacity. Isothermal and adiabatic processes come next, and then you get Carnot's engine and calculation of efficiencies. Then entropy is introduced and you are pretty much through.
Stat mech is a bit more challenging, but if you understand the math and remember the definitions, it really is pretty linear.
Like I said, tell us what the particular issues are and we may be able to help out.
From the administrative perspective, if you feel you are running out of time, you can ask the prof for an incomplete and turn in the work later. Use the won time to absorb the material at your own pace. Another idea is to ask gradstudents at your institution for a few pointers. How come the prof has no T.A.'s for the course? Finally, don't you have classmates you know who take the same course? They may teach you some things too.
I barely got by thermo as well. The problem with thermo is that its one of the few classes taught as if this was the 17th century. Good luck.If it is just thermodynamics, there are only a few concepts you need to get and then the rest is pretty easy. The math is not that challenging by comparison to many other things in physics, especially EM (well, it depends on the teaching level, but on average it is true).
Basic thermo is different ways to use the ideal gas law. A bunch of results come from it especially when combined with simple ideas about degrees of freedom and thermal capacity. Isothermal and adiabatic processes come next, and then you get Carnot's engine and calculation of efficiencies. Then entropy is introduced and you are pretty much through.
Stat mech is a bit more challenging, but if you understand the math and remember the definitions, it really is pretty linear.
Like I said, tell us what the particular issues are and we may be able to help out.
From the administrative perspective, if you feel you are running out of time, you can ask the prof for an incomplete and turn in the work later. Use the won time to absorb the material at your own pace. Another idea is to ask gradstudents at your institution for a few pointers. How come the prof has no T.A.'s for the course? Finally, don't you have classmates you know who take the same course? They may teach you some things too.
Drew
Post by: Waitone on October 05, 2006, 06:12:32 PM
Took it again the next semester and ace'd it. Yeah, it hurt my pride more than my GPR, but it was good for me. Everyone has to face failure and experience it. Years later I was told the course of study (can't spell the word) was deliberately constructed to force you to make those kinds of decision. We were deliberately put into situations where all the options sucked. Kinda like life.
You'll survive and be much better for it.
Post by: CatsDieNow on October 06, 2006, 03:08:08 AM
When I took the pre-req for it, I got violently sick during the exam, but it all magically made sense at that point in time. I was puking every 20 minutes, but I got an A. Never has made sense since. I hate that stupid steam table book.
I have yet to see a decent textbook for it.
Post by: 280plus on October 06, 2006, 03:23:08 AM
Quote
280, what would have been a kicker, was if you begged for the C, he gave you the C, then asked why you didn't want the A.
LOL...I knew I was stretching it asking for the C. Same thing though, if I was a computer major he might not have let it go but when was I ever going to use that stuff in the music field? It was last semester ever, I was out of money too and I just needed a C in a 200 level math to graduate. I think I told him that the first day. And from the first day he was advising me to drop but I wouldn't and I made every class so now I have a lovely BA that sits in a drawer some where.
I took that course and then for electives (which was all I had left) I took 2 - 300 level Psychs and a 200 level Modern literature. I thought the Mod Lit would be a breeze and it was supposed to be the course I didn't have to put so much time into. I had to read 11 novels complete with reports. I think that was the toughest semester I had the whole time through.
Post by: 280plus on October 06, 2006, 03:24:14 AM
Post by: 280plus on October 06, 2006, 03:28:20 AM
Post by: roo_ster on October 06, 2006, 05:08:18 AM
I managed to get a Physics degree mostly from profs who did not teach...unless you call xeroxing the textbook on to slides and reading them to us during class time teaching. Their research, OTOH, got tender loving care and attention.
Oh, and the math beyond Calc required for some of the work...got to learn that on the fly, too.
Physics would be easier if you got your degree in Math, first.
Your situation sounds ugly & ominous. I would recommend buying that other textbook, giving your other classes only the attention needed to "B" them, shut off all social interaction, and spend your time hitting the thermo. If you contact your prof, have a couple of well thought-out questions that get to the point.
Post by: 280plus on October 06, 2006, 05:17:43 AM
Post by: jefnvk on October 06, 2006, 01:30:59 PM
Quote from: charby
Quote from: fistful
The faculty doesn't have time? Then what are they for?
Oh boy this could open a can of worms. I work at a land grant university and it seems more emphasis is placed on research than teaching. Funny thing is that their advertisements sure don't say it. Most engineering programs are at research institutions. Some professors look at teaching as a necessary evil to keep a position at a University, you can tell when taking a class who those professors are. -C
I got two 'W''s (withdrew) on my transcript right now. I just don't let it bother me. I'll try again later with another prof (which is why I got out of both of them).
Post by: client32 on October 07, 2006, 03:34:27 AM
Oh and to top it all of, this was going to be my last sememster for my undergrad.
Life went on. I took a class the next semster and graduated. I couldn't take the same class because it was only offered one semester a year.
Post by: garyk/nm on October 07, 2006, 03:46:15 AM
Chem was my downfall. Failed it the first time and got a C on the second try. Life goes on.