Author Topic: Trump proposes $10 federal minimum wage  (Read 3716 times)

Pb

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Trump proposes $10 federal minimum wage
« on: July 27, 2016, 09:38:06 AM »
"I would say $10," Trump told Fox News host Bill O'Reilly when asked about the specific figure he would recommend. "But with the understanding that somebody like me is going to bring back jobs. I don't want people to be in the $10 dollar category very long. I believe it should be raised."

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-proposes-10-federal-minimum-wage/article/2597805

This jackass has no understanding of the economics of price controls.  Thanks for saddling us with this person, Trump voters!

De Selby

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Re: Trump proposes $10 federal minimum wage
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2016, 09:42:15 AM »
You can't be serious.  The guy proposes a min wage under what most pay already, and he's screwing the economy?

I find that people who hyperventilate about minimum wage tend to understand economics far less than proponents of increasing it.  

I know many Clinton globalists would rather Americans compete with Chinese wages in a "free market" between the two countries with no interference.  For my part Id rather see policies that leave fewer Americans destitute.
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Trump proposes $10 federal minimum wage
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2016, 09:51:00 AM »
I'm not opposed to a minimum wage - so long as every politician makes exactly that amount, and no more.

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KD5NRH

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Re: Trump proposes $10 federal minimum wage
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2016, 09:54:07 AM »
I dunno; at current dollar value, if you can't make an hour of your time worth $10 to somebody, I'm thinking maybe natural selection should take its toll.

OTOH, it needs to be easier to fire someone who is truly useless without having to fight their unemployment application afterward.

As someone pointed out to me the other day, if Taco Bell only hired people who are actually worth $15/hour, the improvement in service might well be worth the increased cost of a burrito.

RoadKingLarry

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Re: Trump proposes $10 federal minimum wage
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2016, 09:57:25 AM »
The linked article is the equivalent of a heavily edited video.
I listened to the interview and while Trump threw out a number when repeatedly pressed by O'Reilly, it wasn't like he was making a commitment to it as part of his platform.
One reality, like it or not (and I don't) is that there IS going to be a Federal minimum wage, I suspect Trump is cognizant of that fact and is working with what is instead of what we wish for.
My main take away was him stating that setting a minimum wage should be left up to the individual states. He also stated that any minimum wage wasn't supposed to be a anything but a starting point for people entering the workplace.
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Re:
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2016, 10:15:50 AM »
I have seen many not worth 10 bucks

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MikeB

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Re: Trump proposes $10 federal minimum wage
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2016, 11:06:09 AM »
The linked article is the equivalent of a heavily edited video.
I listened to the interview and while Trump threw out a number when repeatedly pressed by O'Reilly, it wasn't like he was making a commitment to it as part of his platform.
One reality, like it or not (and I don't) is that there IS going to be a Federal minimum wage, I suspect Trump is cognizant of that fact and is working with what is instead of what we wish for.
My main take away was him stating that setting a minimum wage should be left up to the individual states. He also stated that any minimum wage wasn't supposed to be a anything but a starting point for people entering the workplace.


This. I happened to see it live by chance; I don't normally watch Oreilly. Trump said over and over it should be up to the States and only gave the $10 answer as an possibility when pressed over and over by Oreilly. He then immediately said it should be left to the States again. I think he even said there shouldn't be a Federal minimum if I recall correctly. It was in no way stated as a proposal.

This is just one more example of taking most things reported about Trump with a large grain of salt. Over and over when I take the time to look into it, what is reported on something he said rarely matches either the truth or context of what he actually said.

wmenorr67

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Re: Trump proposes $10 federal minimum wage
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2016, 11:47:28 AM »
Only O'Reilly will try to spin something when he is known for the "No Spin Zone."
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: Trump proposes $10 federal minimum wage
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2016, 11:58:25 AM »
Not even O'Reilly spinning it, the link in the OP is the Washington Post.  Some useless urinalist probably caught the interview and tried to make hay out of it.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.

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Re: Trump proposes $10 federal minimum wage
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2016, 12:00:12 PM »
You can't be serious.  The guy proposes a min wage under what most pay already, and he's screwing the economy?

I find that people who hyperventilate about minimum wage tend to understand economics far less than proponents of increasing it.  

I know many Clinton globalists would rather Americans compete with Chinese wages in a "free market" between the two countries with no interference.  For my part Id rather see policies that leave fewer Americans destitute.

Minimum wage is what pays part timers, especially in the food service industry. 
This will hike the cost of goods and services.
And a mandatory wage is an unnecessary interference in the free market.  But commies like you don't realize that.
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Re: Trump proposes $10 federal minimum wage
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2016, 12:19:03 PM »
This. I happened to see it live by chance; I don't normally watch Oreilly. Trump said over and over it should be up to the States and only gave the $10 answer as an possibility when pressed over and over by Oreilly. He then immediately said it should be left to the States again. I think he even said there shouldn't be a Federal minimum if I recall correctly. It was in no way stated as a proposal.

This is just one more example of taking most things reported about Trump with a large grain of salt. Over and over when I take the time to look into it, what is reported on something he said rarely matches either the truth or context of what he actually said.

I just heard Trump's press conference this morning where he basically said the above and also specifically said it should be up to states, giving the example of a wage that's fair for NYC being unfair to other states. He also specifically said it's a job killer.

As an aside, I have to take a step back and say I was impressed with Trump's press conference this morning. No teleprompter, and pretty much no crazy talk. he was cool and collected and actually made a lot of really good points. He also made Clinton look really bad about not holding a press conference for nearly 2/3 of a year. He also called out the press on bias quite well without resorting to the "poor me" schtick he was using early on.
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KD5NRH

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Re:
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2016, 01:16:50 PM »
I have seen many not worth 10 bucks

And in civilized societies, they had three choices; starve, leech off their own family, or be infantry until they either earned a pension from that or ended up fertilizing some battlefield somewhere.  Note that living cradle-to-grave better than I do off my tax money without ever contributing to society isn't on that list.

This also had the effect of families taking more of an interest in their kids being able to do something useful, as there wasn't an all-encompassing government welfare program to turn them over to.

MikeB

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Re: Trump proposes $10 federal minimum wage
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2016, 01:18:35 PM »
I just heard Trump's press conference this morning where he basically said the above and also specifically said it should be up to states, giving the example of a wage that's fair for NYC being unfair to other states. He also specifically said it's a job killer.

As an aside, I have to take a step back and say I was impressed with Trump's press conference this morning. No teleprompter, and pretty much no crazy talk.[/] he was cool and collected and actually made a lot of really good points. He also made Clinton look really bad about not holding a press conference for nearly 2/3 of a year. He also called out the press on bias quite well without resorting to the "poor me" schtick he was using early on.

No. I caught part of it at lunch and even with no crazy talk the media invent it. He made a statement that I found to be a joke and he probably intended that way about that Russia should release Hillary's missing emails if they have them and now everyone's site is claiming he is asking Russia to hack Hillary's email and committing treason. It's crazy.

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Re: Trump proposes $10 federal minimum wage
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2016, 02:08:37 PM »
Min wage is one of those things whose benefit or damage is highly dependent on circumstances.

Let us assume a $10 min wage:
1. If the prevailing entry-level wage is $10 or more, a $10 min wage will have zero effect.
2. If it is higher than prevailing entry level wage, fewer marginal workers will be employed and there may well be capital investment to squeeze out more productivity of those who are employed.
3. It may price illegal aliens with bogus documents out of the labor market.

Where the $15 min wage has been enacted, we can see some of these effects.
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Ben

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Re: Trump proposes $10 federal minimum wage
« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2016, 02:12:03 PM »
No. I caught part of it at lunch and even with no crazy talk the media invent it. He made a statement that I found to be a joke and he probably intended that way about that Russia should release Hillary's missing emails if they have them and now everyone's site is claiming he is asking Russia to hack Hillary's email and committing treason. It's crazy.

Well yeah, the media came up with it, but I heard no crazy talk from him listening to the whole thing myself.

I heard about the treason thing within five minutes of the conference ending. It was the NYT. No one who actually heard what he said, in context, could take that seriously and not as a joke. It was an obvious dig at Hillary.
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MechAg94

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Re: Trump proposes $10 federal minimum wage
« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2016, 02:40:56 PM »
Min wage is one of those things whose benefit or damage is highly dependent on circumstances.

Let us assume a $10 min wage:
1. If the prevailing entry-level wage is $10 or more, a $10 min wage will have zero effect.
2. If it is higher than prevailing entry level wage, fewer marginal workers will be employed and there may well be capital investment to squeeze out more productivity of those who are employed.
3. It may price illegal aliens with bogus documents out of the labor market.

Where the $15 min wage has been enacted, we can see some of these effects.
It can also price temporary workers out of the market such as students or teenagers though that may be simply due to fewer positions available.  

It is also guaranteed to increase costs of goods that depend on min wage employees.  A basic hamburger combo will get more expensive.  Basic restaurant meal prices will go up.  In other words, the costs will be passed on though not always 100%.
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Re: Trump proposes $10 federal minimum wage
« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2016, 03:28:11 PM »
As someone pointed out to me the other day, if Taco Bell only hired people who are actually worth $15/hour, the improvement in service might well be worth the increased cost of a burrito.

While there are some who won't be affected no matter how much you pay them, there are a fair number of people who will indeed "work harder" at an increased wage rate.  It could be a combination of reduced stress*, knowing they have a good thing going, feeling appreciated, whatever.

Worst case, if you're paying more than your peers, assuming your work environment isn't shittier than them, you can at least nab the premium employees in the field.

*Wealth doesn't buy happiness, but research says that it at least pays off unhappiness.  Or, more accurately, you tend to be unhappy when you're worried about where your next meal is coming from and/or how you're going to pay the bills.


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Re: Trump proposes $10 federal minimum wage
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2016, 03:28:53 PM »

It is also guaranteed to increase costs of goods that depend on min wage employees.  A basic hamburger combo will get more expensive.  Basic restaurant meal prices will go up.  In other words, the costs will be passed on though not always 100%.

I still say costs won't go up because people will be replaced by kiosks. Words of wisdom for the $15/hour crowd: You might not want to go all militant about what you deserve when the job you say is so tough to do can be done by a robot. Or a chimpanzee.
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makattak

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Re: Trump proposes $10 federal minimum wage
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2016, 03:42:06 PM »
While there are some who won't be affected no matter how much you pay them, there are a fair number of people who will indeed "work harder" at an increased wage rate.  It could be a combination of reduced stress*, knowing they have a good thing going, feeling appreciated, whatever.

That's great, but as a theory it does absolutely nothing to support the idea of a minimum wage. If you're getting paid more, but can get paid just as much somewhere else, why would you "work harder"?
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Re: Trump proposes $10 federal minimum wage
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2016, 04:59:13 PM »
It also effects those closer to the proposed minimum.

If someone who was making five bucks an hour over minimum wage is suddenly making two bucks over minimum wage they will likewise want a raise. And it ain't going to be enough to make up the difference.


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Re: Trump proposes $10 federal minimum wage
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2016, 05:33:47 PM »
While there are some who won't be affected no matter how much you pay them, there are a fair number of people who will indeed "work harder" at an increased wage rate.  It could be a combination of reduced stress*, knowing they have a good thing going, feeling appreciated, whatever.

This has been my experience, and through proper use of probationary periods, employers that voluntarily pay significantly over industry standard can build an excellent workforce that performs well beyond the cost:output ratio of the ones staying at or below standard.

Quote
*Wealth doesn't buy happiness, but research says that it at least pays off unhappiness.  Or, more accurately, you tend to be unhappy when you're worried about where your next meal is coming from and/or how you're going to pay the bills.

More specifically, if you can afford better stuff and/or good maintenance for the stuff you have, you're not sitting at work worrying about whether your tires/dishwasher/backache can be put off another pay period or two without catastrophic results.

That's great, but as a theory it does absolutely nothing to support the idea of a minimum wage. If you're getting paid more, but can get paid just as much somewhere else, why would you "work harder"?

Which, again, only affects employers paying the minimum.  Generally, those jobs are interchangeable; whether someone who is only worth minimum is at Taco Bell or Taco Bueno doesn't really have any impact on anyone or anything. 

It also effects those closer to the proposed minimum.

If someone who was making five bucks an hour over minimum wage is suddenly making two bucks over minimum wage they will likewise want a raise. And it ain't going to be enough to make up the difference.

Also an accurate observation at many employers, though those who keep up percentagewise do tend to attract better people.

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Re: Trump proposes $10 federal minimum wage
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2016, 05:37:45 PM »
The people who work minimum wage jobs have no bargaining power and employers are all to happy to exploit them.  ("I owe my soul to the company store"  :sad clarinets: )

I think a minimum wage is a good thing, but a minimum wage job is not a living; never has been and never will be.  If pressed for a number, I think $10 is a good one -- but it needs to have lots of exceptions (severely handicapped or retarded workers, less than 5 employees, etc.)  Best if the feds just butt out and let the states take care of it.
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KD5NRH

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Re: Trump proposes $10 federal minimum wage
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2016, 06:03:34 PM »
The people who work minimum wage jobs have no bargaining power and employers are all to happy to exploit them.
They have one bargaining chip, that all too many don't use; they know where the door is, and education is available.  Doesn't have to be a degree; plenty of cert-only jobs out there if you're willing to get your hands dirty, and a lot of them pay better with a year or two of experience than you could expect to make within several years of getting certain degrees.

Quote
I think a minimum wage is a good thing, but a minimum wage job is not a living; never has been and never will be.
And that is the key.  People expecting to make a career out of a minimum wage job need to also accept that they're committing to a ramen and Budweiser lifestyle, and stop demanding that they be paid champagne and caviar wages for work that isn't worth it.

Perd Hapley

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Re: Trump proposes $10 federal minimum wage
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2016, 06:32:56 PM »
This is just one more example of taking most things reported about Trump with a large grain of salt. Over and over when I take the time to look into it, what is reported on something he said rarely matches either the truth or context of what he actually said.


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Trump proposes $10 federal minimum wage
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2016, 06:39:06 PM »
You see his contretemps with the reporter ? The latest one? "Be quiet"

http://www.politico.com/blogs/on-media/2016/07/donald-trump-to-katy-tur-be-quiet-226286

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