Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Hutch on February 06, 2012, 08:21:48 AM
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If this belongs in a different forum, feel free etc.
I realize the analysis is from WND, but the primary site is in Farsi
http://www.wnd.com/2012/02/ayatollah-kill-all-jews-annihilate-israel/
Seems like the Persians, or at least the leadership, is ratcheting up the rhetoric. How long before Bebe takes them seriously enough to throw the first punch? I don't think the state of Israel could withstand a '73 Yom Kipper-style first strike with any WMDs. Just sayin'.
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They just are itching to start a revolution of their own people. Banning Barbie and Simpson dolls is just the start.
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Sorry, no outrage here. That's the response you get when you are constantly threatening to bomb another country and destroy their infrastructure.
It is not in vain that Meir Dagan is issuing stern warnings about what "Bibi" wants to do. Why on Earth should Israel expect there to be no reaction to its actions?
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Yes, but the Iranian reaction to what "Bibi" is saying is by far eclipsing what people will read about Israel's statements. The Iranians are getting the really bad press for being totally nuts. All in all not a bad PR move on Israel's part.
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Sorry, no outrage here. That's the response you get when you are constantly threatening to bomb another country and destroy their infrastructure.
It is not in vain that Meir Dagan is issuing stern warnings about what "Bibi" wants to do. Why on Earth should Israel expect there to be no reaction to its actions?
What is it that Bibi wants to do, Oh Wise One?
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Perhaps to pre-empt the attack that will render you mute in your own land...?
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What is it that Bibi wants to do, Oh Wise One?
Attack Iran, preemptive strike, destruction of nuclear facilities and military capabilities, etc. Same old, same old. ;)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/is-israel-preparing-to-attack-iran/2012/02/02/gIQANjfTkQ_story.html
..plans which were called stupid by the former Mossad cheif Meir Dagan, FWIW.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/04/world/middleeast/04mossad.html?_r=1
Just to clarify, when I said I am not outraged, I mean that it is not shocking or surprising that such statements were made. It was more than obvious that such rhetoric would eventually surface amid all the pre-war tension and threat issuing. I do not agree with or endorse it though, just saw it coming a mile away... and Israeli leadership probably did too.
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I doubt very much Israel will strike at Iran at all, and probably notthis year.
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And do you equally doubt that Iran will strike Israel pre-emptively when she has the opportunity?
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And do you equally doubt that Iran will strike Israel pre-emptively when she has the opportunity?
Quite.
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Let's refresh our memory as to how reliable these predictions are:
Israeli minister: A nuclear Iran by 2005
(http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2002/02/07/Israeli-minister-A-nuclear-Iran-by-2005/UPI-12091013093338/)
Iran Will Have Nuclear Weapons by 2008 (http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/12/11/204349.shtml)
Iran Nuclear Bomb Could Be possible by 2009 (http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2007/04/exclusive_iran_/)
Iran Could Have Ability to Build a Nuclear Bomb by 2010, Study Warns (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/4362989/Iran-could-have-a-nuclear-bomb-by-2010-study-warns.html)
Israel: Iran will have Nuclear weapons by 2011 (http://hotair.com/archives/2009/12/28/israel-iran-will-have-nuclear-weapons-by-2011/)
Just how many times do these people need to be wrong before we stop trusting them?
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Yeah, it's like the old proverb about "the boy who cried wolf." :mad:
Oh wait .... the last time the wolf was real. :police:
Iran does have a nuclear program, right? I mean one designed for building a BOMB, not a reactor. Because, nebulous "projections" aside, it seems to me that so long as they keep working on one then sooner or later they will eventually figure out how to do it.
And remember, the stuxnet virus has thrown a wrench into their program......
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Iranians have never behaved other than "badly" during my living memory . . .
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Further on this topic:
Israel may launch strike on Iran as soon as next month to prevent development of nuclear weapons (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2059462/UN-report-Iran-IS-trying-build-nuclear-bomb-warns-William-Hague.html) (November 2011)
CIA Veteran: Israel to Attack Iran In Fall (http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2011/07/201171775828434786.html) (July 2011)
Former Def. Minister: Israel Will Attack Iran by November (http://www.newsmax.com/KenTimmerman/Timmerman-Israel-Iran-nuclear/2010/04/02/id/354614) (July 2010)
Expect Israel to hit Iran without warning
(http://articles.latimes.com/2009/aug/30/opinion/oe-zenko30) (August 2009)_
Israel will Attack Iran Before New US President sworn in, John Bolton Predicts (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/2182070/Israel-will-attack-Iran-before-new-US-president-sworn-in-John-Bolton-predicts.html)
What Will Israel Do? A Unilateral Strike on Iran is more Likely... (http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2007/12/19/what-will-israel-do.html) [December 2007]
Is Israel Planning To Attack Iran? (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/21/opinion/21iht-edcreveld_ed3_.html) August 21, 2004
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Micro, that just shows you that making predictions is difficult.
Especially about the future.
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Micro, that just shows you that making predictions is difficult.
Especially about the future.
What is specifically shows you is that various 'Middle East security experts' and other such modern-day sooth-sayers are just a modern-day version of the professional soothsayers of old, as reliable - and probably as honest.
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Yeah, it's like the old proverb about "the boy who cried wolf." :mad:
Oh wait .... the last time the wolf was real. :police:
Iran does have a nuclear program, right? I mean one designed for building a BOMB, not a reactor. Because, nebulous "projections" aside, it seems to me that so long as they keep working on one then sooner or later they will eventually figure out how to do it.
And remember, the stuxnet virus has thrown a wrench into their program......
Uh, when did we confirm that Iran has a program for building a bomb?
They've repeatedly said that atomic bombs are satanic and banned under Islamic law, and inspectors have never found evidence that the program is developing materials that could be used in a bomb.
I agree that it's likely they would want a bomb, but is there any proof of this?
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What is specifically shows you is that various 'Middle East security experts' and other such modern-day sooth-sayers are just a modern-day version of the professional soothsayers of old, as reliable - and probably as honest.
Middle east security "experts" have a vested interest in stoking instability and claiming the skies falling.
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Uh, when did we confirm that Iran has a program for building a bomb?
They've repeatedly said that atomic bombs are satanic and banned under Islamic law, and inspectors have never found evidence that the program is developing materials that could be used in a bomb.
I agree that it's likely they would want a bomb, but is there any proof of this?
http://www.cnn.com/2011/11/15/opinion/cronin-iran-nuclear-threat/index.html
For the better part of a decade, the world has seen an episodic stream of predictions that Iran was on the cusp of building a nuclear weapon and that an Israeli or American pre-emptive military strike was imminent. Alarming forecasts are again gaining currency because of a new assessment issued by the United Nations nuclear watchdog: The International Atomic Energy Agency reported last week that Iran appears to be trying to develop a nuclear weapon.
The specter of a nuclear weapon in the hands of someone as erratic as Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad would weigh heavily on decision-makers in Israel, Saudi Arabia and Turkey and throughout the international community.
If and when Iran is seen as becoming the world's 10th known nuclear power, many experts see danger mounting, whether from the "Iranian bomb" or from having to "bomb Iran." The prospect alone has been enough to muscle national security to the forefront of the 2012 U.S. presidential election, a contest that heretofore has focused on economic issues. As Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham recently put it, if Iran gets "a nuclear weapon, the world is going to go into darkness."
Patrick Cronin
Patrick Cronin
Relying on satellite imagery and other information, the IAEA suggests that Iran has advanced nuclear weapons development at its Parchin military complex, about 20 miles southeast of Tehran. Experts estimate that Iran could make enough weapons-grade enriched uranium for a nuclear weapon within six months. Thus, even if Iran's claims of peaceful intent were true, Iran is shortening the timeline needed to achieve a nuclear-weapon breakout. Iran's checkered track record on nuclear transparency encourages worst-case analysis.
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http://news.yahoo.com/us-iran-not-yet-decided-build-nuclear-bomb-140132073.html
WASHINGTON (AP) — Defense Secretary Leon Panetta says Iran is laying the groundwork for making nuclear weapons someday, but is not yet building a bomb and called for continued diplomatic and economic pressure to persuade Tehran not to take that step.
[/quoye]
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Uh, when did we confirm that Iran has a program for building a bomb?
They've repeatedly said that atomic bombs are satanic and banned under Islamic law, and inspectors have never found evidence that the program is developing materials that could be used in a bomb.
I agree that it's likely they would want a bomb, but is there any proof of this?
:facepalm:
They have a military program and a whole slew of centrifuges going ..... I think we know what's going on.....
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More on the glory of 'experts':
SECRETARY CLINTON: With respect to Egypt, which, as your question implied, like many countries in the region, has been experiencing demonstrations. We know that they’ve occurred not only in Cairo but around the country, and we’re monitoring that very closely. We support the fundamental right of expression and assembly for all people, and we urge that all parties exercise restraint and refrain from violence. But our assessment is that the Egyptian Government is stable and is looking for ways to respond to the legitimate needs and interests of the Egyptian people.
http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2011/01/155280.htm
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:facepalm:
They have a military program and a whole slew of centrifuges going ..... I think we know what's going on.....
Yeah, no - the centrifuges that were wrecked by stuxnet were under inspection and were not capable of bombmaking. They are not a military program, and there's no proof of an alternative program out there.
Hey CSD, have a look at what that report actually says - "They're getting better at nuke science, so someday they might be in a position to build a facility that can be used to develop materials that can be used for a reactor that makes parts for a bomb." Yeah, that's certain! And its imminence could not be in doubt!
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Yeah, no - the centrifuges that were wrecked by stuxnet were under inspection and were not capable of bombmaking. They are not a military program, and there's no proof of an alternative program out there.
Hey CSD, have a look at what that report actually says - "They're getting better at nuke science, so someday they might be in a position to build a facility that can be used to develop materials that can be used for a reactor that makes parts for a bomb." Yeah, that's certain! And its imminence could not be in doubt!
Have you read some of the other posts in between this last and mine? ;)
I don't think their nuke program is buried in underground bunkers because they're manufacturing tiddly winks games.
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Have you read some of the other posts in between this last and mine? ;)
I don't think their nuke program is buried in underground bunkers because they're manufacturing tiddly winks games.
So that's the proof? The fact that it's hardened against bombing means it's for a bomb???
Gee, I wonder why they'd put anything under ground after having been bombed repeatedly by Israel and the United States....it must be something they're hiding!
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:facepalm: Just :facepalm:
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Gee, I wonder why they'd put anything under ground after having been bombed repeatedly by Israel and the United States....it must be something they're hiding!
Repeated bombings by Israel and the United States? Show me proof as to when that has happened even once, much less repeatedly.
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Repeated bombings by Israel and the United States? Show me proof as to when that has happened even once, much less repeatedly.
Well, let's see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis)
Then there was diplomatic support to protect Saddam's use of chemical weapons, which were actually used on Iran: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/iraq47.pdf (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/iraq47.pdf) Not to mention the US's own role in helping Iran's enemy to have that wonderful chemical weapons technology.
On the Israel side, there was this (granted, they were impersonating Americans, but that's still Israel fomenting bombings in Iran): http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/01/13/false_flag (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/01/13/false_flag)
And of course there's no public proof that the US or Israel engaged in the terrorist attacks against Iranian scientists recently...but that's pretty suspect, don't you think?
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Well, let's see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis)
In response to the mining of the Persian Gulf which damaged a US warship. Justified.
Then there was diplomatic support to protect Saddam's use of chemical weapons, which were actually used on Iran: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/iraq47.pdf (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/iraq47.pdf) Not to mention the US's own role in helping Iran's enemy to have that wonderful chemical weapons technology.
What about Iran/Contra where we sold weapons to Iran?
On the Israel side, there was this (granted, they were impersonating Americans, but that's still Israel fomenting bombings in Iran): http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/01/13/false_flag (http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/01/13/false_flag)
And of course there's no public proof that the US or Israel engaged in the terrorist attacks against Iranian scientists recently...but that's pretty suspect, don't you think?
So you have failed in answering my question. You have shown one case of where the United States bomb Iran. Where are the repeated bombing you speak of. Once again De Selby you are trying to be a troll and you are a miserable failure at it.
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so that would be a no to repeated bombings? by either the us or israel? not that repeated bombings isn't a good idea
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Wait a second here - I've shown an example of multiple ships being sunk, oil platforms being bombed, chemical weapons tech being supplied to a guy who actually used them against Iran...and then evidence of Israeli agents helping a terrorist group to bomb Iran (which they did, multiple times.)
How on earth does that fail to answer your question? You asked for proof of the US bombing Iran even once, much less repeatedly. Undoubtedly you can read about more than one bombing at the links above.
Are you alleging that those are fake, or that multiple bombings can only be counted as one?
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The multiple bombings you speak of were from one incident. I give you that but I don't count that as mulitple bombings.
When it comes to the Iran/Iraq War we played both sides to the middle on that.
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"Multiple ships" = one warship and one small gunboat. Not exactly Midway.
This was after Iran mined the Persian Gulf.
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Why would any reasonable nation that has been in multiple wars recently, losing almost all of them too, not fortify everything important?
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Why would any reasonable nation that has been in multiple wars recently, losing almost all of them too, not fortify everything important?
Why would such a nation repeatedly threaten another nation such as Israel, one that's been in multiple wars and has won nearly all of them?
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Why would such a nation repeatedly threaten another nation such as Israel, one that's been in multiple wars and has won nearly all of them?
Their threats seem to boil down to:
"Israel needs to be destroyed"
"If Israel attacks us, we'll kill them all."
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Their threats seem to boil down to:
"Israel needs to be destroyed"
"If Israel attacks us, we'll kill them all."
Well, you're closer to the action, obviously, but we'll see. I don't know that I'd dismiss their threats so easily.
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Well, let's see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis)
Operation Praying Mantis was an attack on April 18, 1988, by U.S. naval forces within Iranian territorial waters in retaliation for the Iranian mining of the Persian Gulf during the Iran–Iraq war and the subsequent damage to an American warship.
:police:
Yeah, God forbid we should RETALIATE against an Iranian action that damaged one of our vessels...... Poor wittle Iwan....... :'( :'(
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Iran isn't building a reactor for cheap electricity, that's for damn sure.
If you are capable of implementing nuclear technology, you're a fool for not building a nuclear bomb with it. It's the ultimate weapon and the ultimate deterrence. The people that run Iran are psychopaths, but they aren't stupid. They know they can poke and provoke others in today's world of nations run by pansies and get away with it, and so that's what they do. And they know that they can get away with becoming a nuclear power...
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More on the glory of 'experts':
http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2011/01/155280.htm
The problem is not with experts, it's with LIARS. "Smart diplomacy" means Machiavellian diplomacy. What do you think Clinton, Rice, and Power are up to? What does the "responsibility to protect" imply?
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Further on this topic:
Israel may launch strike on Iran as soon as next month to prevent development of nuclear weapons (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2059462/UN-report-Iran-IS-trying-build-nuclear-bomb-warns-William-Hague.html) (November 2011)
CIA Veteran: Israel to Attack Iran In Fall (http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2011/07/201171775828434786.html) (July 2011)
Former Def. Minister: Israel Will Attack Iran by November (http://www.newsmax.com/KenTimmerman/Timmerman-Israel-Iran-nuclear/2010/04/02/id/354614) (July 2010)
Expect Israel to hit Iran without warning
(http://articles.latimes.com/2009/aug/30/opinion/oe-zenko30) (August 2009)_
Israel will Attack Iran Before New US President sworn in, John Bolton Predicts (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/2182070/Israel-will-attack-Iran-before-new-US-president-sworn-in-John-Bolton-predicts.html)
What Will Israel Do? A Unilateral Strike on Iran is more Likely... (http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2007/12/19/what-will-israel-do.html) [December 2007]
Is Israel Planning To Attack Iran? (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/21/opinion/21iht-edcreveld_ed3_.html) August 21, 2004
Israel Will Strike Iran To Prevent a Second Holocaust (http://dailycaller.com/2012/02/11/krauthammer-israel-will-strike-iran-to-prevent-a-second-holocaust/), says Krauthammer.
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Iran isn't building a reactor for cheap electricity, that's for damn sure.
If you are capable of implementing nuclear technology, you're a fool for not building a nuclear bomb with it. It's the ultimate weapon and the ultimate deterrence. The people that run Iran are psychopaths, but they aren't stupid. They know they can poke and provoke others in today's world of nations run by pansies and get away with it, and so that's what they do. And they know that they can get away with becoming a nuclear power...
They need nukes because they have no petroleum resources to burn and produce electricity. I am sure that it the reason.
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They need nukes because they have no petroleum resources to burn and produce electricity. I am sure that it the reason.
Makes more sense than you think.
Sell the expensive oil to foreigners. Use nuclear power for yourself. Get nuclear weapons too.
Same thing Russia is doing.
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They need nukes because they have no petroleum resources to burn and produce electricity. I am sure that it the reason.
Despite the sarcasm that actually isn't very far off. Their crude oil production is high, but their domestic refining capacity is miniscule, they actually have to import gasoline and other distillates to meet the local demands (and were forced to begin rationing with those imports were interrupted).
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Despite the sarcasm that actually isn't very far off. Their crude oil production is high, but their domestic refining capacity is miniscule, they actually have to import gasoline and other distillates to meet the local demands (and were forced to begin rationing with those imports were interrupted).
I was about to add that as well. They don't refine enough there. I think part of that is the continued sanctions.
Of course, if I were leading one of those middle eastern oil baron governments, I think I'd be looking at the post-oil situation closely. What happens when you run out?
That said, other than bombing them or invading them, I am not quite sure how we would prevent them from developing nuclear power/weapons in time. We might slow them, but I doubt we would stop them if they didn't want to stop.
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Buy time, and keep buying it until they get the idea.
They need nukes for electrical power? Okay. But why hardened nukes and no inspections? Just askin'.
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I was about to add that as well. They don't refine enough there. I think part of that is the continued sanctions.
Of course, if I were leading one of those middle eastern oil baron governments, I think I'd be looking at the post-oil situation closely. What happens when you run out?
That said, other than bombing them or invading them, I am not quite sure how we would prevent them from developing nuclear power/weapons in time. We might slow them, but I doubt we would stop them if they didn't want to stop.
They will ride camels again when the oil runs out.
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They will ride camels again when the oil runs out.
Now that's hard to say - there's no telling how much development they'll achieve once the US stops funding the ideological parents of Al Qaeda solely for the purpose of controlling the oil.
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Who exactly are the ideological parents of Al Queda, and how much development were they achieving before we needed their oil?
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Who exactly are the ideological parents of Al Queda, and how much development were they achieving before we needed their oil?
The Saudis.
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Who exactly are the ideological parents of Al Queda, and how much development were they achieving before we needed their oil?
Yep - we help them fund radical islamic terrorism and chop off their citizens heads for sorcery and other "crimes" to the tune of billions.
Before that, they were ruled by the same administration that developed Turkey - not a perfect place by any means, but leaps and bounds ahead of the medieval barbarism of Saudi Arabia.
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There have been another couple of Iran-linked attacks in Thailand:
The Thai-Asean News network said police had confirmed the man as Sayed Murabi, an Iranian thought to have bombed his own house before hailing a taxi.
When the driver refused to pick him up, Murabi is reported to have thrown a grenade at the car. Police then pursued him before he tried to throw another grenade at them, but missed and blew off his own legs.
Pretty bad form to miss like that, no?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/14/bangkok-neighbourhood-twin-blasts
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17026007
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Israel Will Strike Iran To Prevent a Second Holocaust (http://dailycaller.com/2012/02/11/krauthammer-israel-will-strike-iran-to-prevent-a-second-holocaust/), says Krauthammer.
It's now September 29th.
Strike on Iran had failed to materialize.
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I maintain that if the Iranians were close to having the bomb, the Israelis would've bombed their *expletive deleted*it by now, US support be damned.