We have no interest in hurting anybody, or destroying anything... so let it go Rich, please.
The few Wiccans I've met have shown no desire to hurt anyone on a personal level, nor do I believe most of them whish to do so - the vast majority of the ones I have met actually niavely beleive they are practicing an "olde religion", and are ignorant of the modern origins of Wicca. That having been said, it is a matter of historical record that both Crowley AND his mother proclaimed him to be "the beast (666) who has come to destroy Christianity".
Oh... "persecution". The ONLY faith (currently practiced) I can think of that has a right to the title of "persecuted" would be Judaism: they've been stamped on by pretty much everybody throughout the ages. Individual members of a faith can claim persecution by individual members of other faiths (my case), or even government (thinking A-Stan here). But no other relgion has the rights to the title more than the Jews. So until I hear Rabbi ranting about how he's persecuted, I think everyone else needs to drop that whole "my faith is persecuted!" line...
You DO know that TODAY, right now, Christains are being killed, sold into slavery, imprisoned, exiled, tortured, and in at least one recent case, crucified, ...merely for being Christians, right? Not to mention churches burned, property confiscated, Bibles prohibited, etc. Just when will this rise to the level of "persecution" in YOUR eyes?
And my last direct reply to Rich: ...
Odd... quite the conspiracy you've got there. Not THE most far-out I've ever seen, but it has it's points. But let's see if I can ascribe slightly different motives:
>That's why he supported Communism,< hmm... last time I checked, he would've been supporting it right near it's begining: at that point, the difference between how it looked on paper and reality hadn't reared up. He might have genuinely thought it was the best bet for mankind...
We don't have to speculate about his motive - "Famous Satanist Aleister Crowley... once offered himself to the Russian authorities to help destroy Christianity (Steve Turner, Hungry for Heaven, p. 92)."
>That's why he performed all kind of sexual perverions as "sex magic"< Or maybe he was just kinda horny?
No doubt that as well. BTW, you DO know the etemology of the word "horny" used in this context, right?
Remember, many of the occult movements at the turn of the century had lots of sexuality involved. And the general view seemed to be "the kinkier, the better"...
From my perspective, based on what I've read, the more unnatural and perverse the act, the greater potential "magic" that can be done. Crowley himself admitted participating in acts of sado-masochism, serial adultery, coprophagy, bestiality, sodomy (of all kinds), was known to have killed small animals, (one of his followers died from drinking cat's blood), and was rumored to have participated in ritual suicide, infanticide, and canabalism.
>That's why he took addictive and hallucinogenic drugs< Actually, there's been a LOT of online discussion about this topic. Some feel that certain hallucinogenes can expand your mind, and enable you to reach higher plains. Most (at least, of the pagans *I* know) feel that such a "shortcut" will cheapen whatever enlightenment you attain (assuming you reach anything at all). However, IIRC that was what Crowley was supposedly going for (and I say that fully realizing that may have just been a justification)...
May have been just a justification - he was a heroin addict (as well as cocaine - supposedly started on them to treat his asthma...), and known to take hallucinogens. Supposedly, he also included them into his sexual magic rites, in an attempt to increase their magical pottency.
>and possibly why he corresponded with L. Ron Hubbard.<
That had NOTHING to do with Christianity, everything to do with poor taste in literature!
That is a true bon mot....
Ok, I'll play... let's say that he did, in fact, do this exactly as you claim. What IS your point? I won't argue your hypothesis anymore Rich: as I said, none of us were present. But, saying that it IS the case, then what IS your point of bringing it up and harping on it?
Point is that the motivation for creating Gardnerian Wicca was at least partialy to supplant/diminish/or destroy Christianity - and that this, while not JUSTIFYING or EXCUSING the behavior of some calling themselves "Christian" toward you and other Wiccans, just might go a long way toward EXPLAINING such wrong-headed behavior.
