Author Topic: The difference between conservatives and liberals: the Moral Foundations Theory  (Read 3552 times)

Pb

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Jonathan Haidt has done research on moral beliefs, and how they effect people's political beliefs.  His book is fascinating, and explains a lot.

He has found people made decisions based on emotion (guided by "morals") first, and then justify them afterwards with their reason.  But there is considerable variation on what those morals are.

He also found that conservatives can understand and state the views of liberals much more easily than liberals can state views of conservatives.

He has decided there seem to be five basic foundations for morality.  From his website:

1) Care/harm: This foundation is related to our long evolution as mammals with attachment systems and an ability to feel (and dislike) the pain of others. It underlies virtues of kindness, gentleness, and nurturance.

2) Fairness/cheating: This foundation is related to the evolutionary process of reciprocal altruism. It generates ideas of justice, rights, and autonomy. [Note: In our original conception, Fairness included concerns about equality, which are more strongly endorsed by political liberals. However, as we reformulated the theory in 2011 based on new data, we emphasize proportionality, which is endorsed by everyone, but is more strongly endorsed by conservatives]

3) Loyalty/betrayal: This foundation is related to our long history as tribal creatures able to form shifting coalitions. It underlies virtues of patriotism and self-sacrifice for the group. It is active anytime people feel that it's "one for all, and all for one."

4) Authority/subversion: This foundation was shaped by our long primate history of hierarchical social interactions. It underlies virtues of leadership and followership, including deference to legitimate authority and respect for traditions.

5) Sanctity/degradation: This foundation was shaped by the psychology of disgust and contamination. It underlies religious notions of striving to live in an elevated, less carnal, more noble way. It underlies the widespread idea that the body is a temple which can be desecrated by immoral activities and contaminants (an idea not unique to religious traditions). 

He found conservatives value each of these five areas mostly equally.

However liberals only value care/harm and fairness cheating! 

Conservatives can state liberal views because they also value care/harm and fairness cheating.

Liberals are frequently baffled by conservative views, because they don't care anything about the other foundations of morality.

The theory explains a lot.  Why do democrats not mind voter fraud, breaking immigration laws and so on?  Because they literally don't value the authority of the law or Constitution- their other values supersede this.

The Loyalty/betrayal standard (or lack thereof) is especially relevant when you consider the left's love affair with Islam, and Obama giving Iran huge amounts of money.  The left doesn't value our people and culture above those of hostile cultures and nations.

The fairness/cheating moral is interesting too- both conservatives and liberals value this, but in very different ways.  Conservatives think this means giving people what the deserve or earn.  Liberals think this means giving everyone the "same."  This explains why conservatives usually don't mind social programs like SS, as the recipients supposedly pay into the system.  Unearned benefits, like food stamps, tend to be looked down on. 

Liberals on the other hand, will say things like "No one deserves to be hungry."  Conservatives would reply "If you refuse to work you do deserve to be hungry."  Our response varies because we value fairness differently.

Libertarians actually score just like liberals, except they don't care much about care/harm.

His website is here:

http://moralfoundations.org/

He has a great book too, "The Righteous Mind."

Sorry for the wall of text, I just find this theory very useful- once you think about it, examples of this will pop up everywhere.

Perd Hapley

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The pastor at my church read that a while ago, and was really intrigued by it. He didn't explain it as well as you did, though. I'll have to look into it. Thanks.
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Monkeyleg

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That's really interesting. I wonder how true it really holds for liberals only embracing two of the five.

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That's really interesting. I wonder how true it really holds for liberals only embracing two of the five.

I am certain that the creators of this theory are unbiased, and would never manipulate the theory and data to support a contention that conservatives are wonderful and liberals are scum.
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I am certain that the creators of this theory are unbiased, and would never manipulate the theory and data to support a contention that conservatives are wonderful and liberals are scum.

LOL. This.

Or that Libertarians are amoral hedonists.  =D
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lee n. field

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Interesting.   

Quote
He also found that conservatives can understand and state the views of liberals much more easily than liberals can state views of conservatives.

Liberals (modern sense) on the internet all seem to thing quite highly of themselves. 
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Pb

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I am certain that the creators of this theory are unbiased, and would never manipulate the theory and data to support a contention that conservatives are wonderful and liberals are scum.

Jonathan Haidt was a liberal.  He started doing research on morality, and had trouble understand his results.  He couldn't understand why many of his conservative respondents gave the answers that they did (as a typical liberal).  His research in to this led to the theory.  He now says he is "middle of the road."  (I expect he is still pretty liberal, but his book is not particularly biased).

The examples I gave- about Iran, voter fraud, etc- are my own applications of the theory, not Haidt's.  My applications are biased, of course.

Pb

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LOL. This.

Or that Libertarians are amoral hedonists.  =D

The theory doesn't say they are immoral hedonist.  It says the moral principle they are concerned about is fairness/cheating, and they aren't much concerned with the others.  For example, libertarians oppose gun control and high taxes because they are viewed as unfair. 

The theory is based on questionaires about the moral values.

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roo_ster

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Haidt's views have changed over time, but he has always been transparent regarding his social science work and very strong, methodologically.  I would be very surprised if his work was not repeatable in the way much of social science is unrepeatable and therefore unverifiable.  He is also very cognizant of bias and how it can queer science of any sort.  

I suspect, as does BTR, that he is still at heart a liberal of the old-school variety.
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Pb

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Oh, I should have mentioned that Haidt is considering another moral foundation, to make six total:

6) Liberty/oppression: This foundation is about the feelings of reactance and resentment people feel toward those who dominate them and restrict their liberty. Its intuitions are often in tension with those of the authority foundation. The hatred of bullies and dominators motivates people to come together, in solidarity, to oppose or take down the oppressor. We report some preliminary work on this potential foundation in this paper, on the psychology of libertarianism and liberty.

Libertarians rank very strongly on this one, in addition to the fairness/cheating foundation.

Haidt's book is fantastic.  It taught me a lot.

Pb

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Here's his Ted talk, with transcript.  He can say it better than me.

https://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind/transcript?language=en#t-179

makattak

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Oh, I should have mentioned that Haidt is considering another moral foundation, to make six total:

6) Liberty/oppression: This foundation is about the feelings of reactance and resentment people feel toward those who dominate them and restrict their liberty. Its intuitions are often in tension with those of the authority foundation. The hatred of bullies and dominators motivates people to come together, in solidarity, to oppose or take down the oppressor. We report some preliminary work on this potential foundation in this paper, on the psychology of libertarianism and liberty.

Libertarians rank very strongly on this one, in addition to the fairness/cheating foundation.

Haidt's book is fantastic.  It taught me a lot.

This is an important one, I think, though I don't know if it raises to the level of "morality."

I have a VERY strong contrarian streak. If I know you are trying to influence me or, heaven forbid, force me to do something, I will often pick the opposite out of spite.*

I rather suspect that most of the individuals on this forum have that same inclination and that added dimension may help square differences between "liberals" and libertarians.




*(Unless, of course, you've convinced me that you (1) are concerned with my best interest and (2) have enough knowledge to know what is in my best interest. Being forthright about your actions helps in both regards.)
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lee n. field

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Here's his Ted talk, with transcript.  He can say it better than me.

https://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind/transcript?language=en#t-179

He seems to buy into the left-to-right single continuum model, which is probably more deceptive than useful.

http://www.yourmorals.org/aboutus.php
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MechAg94

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I would question whether liberals (modern) value fairness at all.  The ends justify the means with a great number of that crowd (and not just them).  If it means their side will win, they have no issue at all with cheating (voter fraud) or at least justify it in some way.  Of course, justification of immoral actions is common to most everyone.

He said moral decisions are made based on emotion, but I am not sure I agree with that.  We make decisions based on what we are taught and the lessons that are reinforced in our mind.  The decisions may not always involve rational thought, but often the thought was done at some point.  I have heard it said with regard to gun training that the body will not go where the mind has not already been. 

Maybe I am not seeing where he is coming from.
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MechAg94

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I also think the tendency for some to slave their thinking to a group should also be considered.  I think that is a huge factor when looking at the whole population.

http://www.amazon.com/True-Believer-Thoughts-Movements-Perennial/dp/0060505915/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1458777929&sr=1-1&keywords=the+true+believer+by+hoffer
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BlueStarLizzard

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I would question whether liberals (modern) value fairness at all.  The ends justify the means with a great number of that crowd.  If it means their side will win, they have no issue at all with cheating (voter fraud) or at least justify it in some way.  IMO, their "morals" and "values" float with whatever seems convenient. 

He said moral decisions are made based on emotion, but I am not sure I agree with that.  We make decisions based on what we are taught and the lessons that are reinforced in our mind.  The decisions may not always involve rational thought, but the thought was done at some point.  

Maybe I am not seeing where he is coming from.

He's coming from the source. Our feelings determine both our actions and our justification for those actions. The basis of those feelings is both nature and a nurture, although I would be the modern "liberal" is more nature than nurture. If you have a good feeling about doing something, you do it, later, you figure out why you felt it was "good" rather than "bad". The reason you felt good in the first place would be largely influenced by what you were taught.
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zahc

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He has found people made decisions based on emotion economics (guided by "morals") first, and then justify them afterwards with their reason

FIFH

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Perd Hapley

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I would question whether liberals (modern) value fairness at all.  The ends justify the means with a great number of that crowd (and not just them).  If it means their side will win, they have no issue at all with cheating (voter fraud) or at least justify it in some way.

I think it was mentioned in the OP that, to the leftist, fairness has more to do with equality of outcome, rather than making sure everyone is treated equally in the process.
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grampster

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"...how it can queer science of any sort."

Are you saying science is gay?  Homophobe you are.  :O :P
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"...how it can queer science of any sort."

Are you saying science is gay?  Homophobe you are.  :O :P

I refuse to let the perverts and deviants capture the language.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/queer
Quote
queer
 (kwîr)
adj. queer·er, queer·est
1.
a. Deviating from what is expected or normal; strange: "The light above his head made a queer reflection of himself in the glowing wineglass" (Carson McCullers).
b. Odd or unconventional, as in behavior; eccentric: "His mother is very queer, with witchy hair and mismatched shoes" (Caroline Preston).
c. Of a questionable nature or character; suspicious: thought there was something queer about his explanation.
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Perd Hapley

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MechAg94

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I think it was mentioned in the OP that, to the leftist, fairness has more to do with equality of outcome, rather than making sure everyone is treated equally in the process.
Maybe there is some blind stupidity in there as well.  Anyone who pays attention can see that modern liberal solutions don't have equality of outcome whether that was the actual intent or not. 
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MechAg94

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He's coming from the source. Our feelings determine both our actions and our justification for those actions. The basis of those feelings is both nature and a nurture, although I would be the modern "liberal" is more nature than nurture. If you have a good feeling about doing something, you do it, later, you figure out why you felt it was "good" rather than "bad". The reason you felt good in the first place would be largely influenced by what you were taught.
I guess that last is what I was thinking about.  
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Pb

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Conservatives tend to believe very strongly in "karma"- that people should get what they deserve based on their actions.  This is expressed in popular conservative support for things like the death penalty, and opposition to "welfare queens" and bailouts.

Veterans benefits are an example of a social welfare program that conservatives generally support because it is perceived to be earned.  This is regarded as fair.

Left wing people usually think everyone should get money, food, healthcare, housing weather or not they have done anything to earn it.  They regard this as "fair."  For example when babydidndu nothin steals something it is okay because he needed the money to buy school clothes or something.