Washington States new anti-gun law has a huge loophole

[Pb]

Washington state recently passed a loathesome inititive tacking on lots of requirements to buy any semi-automatic rifle... even a Marlin tube fed .22.

It has a pretty funny loophole though... it applies to purchase only... not to making your own... and sticking an upper on an AR-15 lower is fine... the lowers are not considered "rifles!"

So you can buy AR-15s without additional BS, you just have to slap the halves together yourself.

Only fly in the ointment is 18-21 year olds can't buy lowers, and will still be screwed.

https://preciseshooter.com/

[Fly320s]

Can the 18-21 year olds buy "used" lowers?

[Pb]

Can the 18-21 year olds buy "used" lowers?

Think the lower thing is federal law, not sure.  Could make their own though!!!!

[Fly320s]

Think the lower thing is federal law, not sure.  Could make their own though!!!!

Federal law only differentiates between handgun and long gun from a dealer.  Most states allow 18 year olds to possess handguns at 18.

[Scout26]

Could an 18yo, go to say, Idaho and buy a lower there??

[MikeB]

Could an 18yo, go to say, Idaho and buy a lower there??

Probably not if I’m reading this correctly. It seems they are saying that the lower would be purchased as a pistol to get around the assault rifle part. Then you can of course convert it to a rifle. An 18 yo can’t buy a handgun from a FFL. Also handguns can’t be purchased out of state from a FFL unless that has changed and FFLs are supposed to follow the laws of the state the purchaser lives in. Of course I may be misunderstanding what the FFL in the link is saying about the “loophole”.

[dogmush]

Stripped lowers are marked on the 4473, and sold as, Other Firearms.  Not pistols.

You can't purchase a stripped lower as a "pistol" on a 4473 because it's not one.  Go here and look at question 16.

It's a misconception that 18-21 year olds can't buy receivers because they might be, or are pistols.  The actual law is that people under 21 can't buy a Firearm from an FFL.  There is an exception to that for Rifles and Shotguns.  If a firearm isn't expressly a Rifle or Shotgun, you must be 21 to buy it. (from an FFL, under federal law) 18 USC 922 (b)(1)

That's purchasing from an FFL, private sales vary by state.

Could an 18yo, go to say, Idaho and buy a lower there??

No, that's illegal under federal law.  You can't buy a firearm in a state that you don't reside in, and he/she can't ship it to an FFL in WA and transfer it there because it's not a rifle/shotgun.

An 18 year old CAN (most places) buy an 80% receiver, mill it out and manufacture a firearm for personal use.  It seems that would fall outside WA's new law.

[Hawkmoon]

Federal law only differentiates between handgun and long gun from a dealer.  Most states allow 18 year olds to possess handguns at 18.

Nope. I've bought a couple of 1911 receivers from Caspian Arms. They were transferred through my FFL as "Other."

You can't purchase a stripped lower as a "pistol" on a 4473 because it's not one.  Go here and look at question 16.

A stripped lower also isn't a rifle. It's an incomplete receiver, and is transferred as "Other." However, if it has ever been built out into either a pistol or a rifle, it can't thereafter be transferred as "Other."

No, that's illegal under federal law.  You can't buy a firearm in a state that you don't reside in, and he/she can't ship it to an FFL in WA and transfer it there because it's not a rifle/shotgun.

You can buy long guns in states other than your state of residence, as long as the sale isn't prohibited by either state. We can't buy handguns in states other than our state of residence.

[dogmush]

A stripped lower also isn't a rifle. It's an incomplete receiver, and is transferred as "Other." However, if it has ever been built out into either a pistol or a rifle, it can't thereafter be transferred as "Other."

True, but as I was responding to MikeB saying  "It seems they are saying that the lower would be purchased as a pistol to get around the assault rifle part." I didn't spell the rifle part out. I did provide the form and question number though.  I could have been clearer.

You can buy long guns in states other than your state of residence, as long as the sale isn't prohibited by either state. We can't buy handguns in states other than our state of residence.

Again, the wording makes a difference, even if it's pedantic.  You can't buy "firearms" in states you don't reside in.  There is an exception for rifles and shotguns.  A stripped lower is not such, and so the theoretical 18YO can't buy it in ID.  It's not that you can't buy a handgun in another state, it's that you can't buy ANY firearm that is not a rifle or shotgun.

[Scout26]

I'm not talking about a stripped lower, but a complete lower with a shoulder stock.   Wouldn't that be considered a rifle or "long gun" if sold by an FFL.  I know I bought an AR in Indiana.

[Hawkmoon]

I'm not talking about a stripped lower, but a complete lower with a shoulder stock.   Wouldn't that be considered a rifle or "long gun" if sold by an FFL.  I know I bought an AR in Indiana.

Good question. Used, or new? My understanding of an ATF ruling from several years ago is that a lower that has never been built into a complete firearm is neither a pistol nor a rifle, and therefore it can (and should) be transferred as "other." The addition of a shoulder stock would probably make it a rifle, since with a shoulder stock it can't be a pistol. It would have to be either a rifle, or an NFA short-barreled rifle.

[Brad Johnson]

Good question. Used, or new? My understanding of an ATF ruling from several years ago is that a lower that has never been built into a complete firearm is neither a pistol nor a rifle, and therefore it can (and should) be transferred as "other." The addition of a shoulder stock would probably make it a rifle, since with a shoulder stock it can't be a pistol. It would have to be either a rifle, or an NFA short-barreled rifle.

It was my impression that un-uppered lowers were all considered rifles, mostly due to the AR pistols having distinct dimensional differences to satisfy the BATFEIEIO that us gun nuts wouldn't go around swapping things all willy nilly.

Brad

[Hawkmoon]

I'll be popping in on a Class 3 FFL some time today. I'll try to remember to ask him.

[dogmush]

It was my impression that un-uppered lowers were all considered rifles, mostly due to the AR pistols having distinct dimensional differences to satisfy the BATFEIEIO that us gun nuts wouldn't go around swapping things all willy nilly.

Brad

What?

There are no differences in the reciever between an AR pistol and rifle.  We do, in fact, swap them around willy nilly.