Author Topic: Sovereign Citizens Movement = Terrorism?  (Read 7741 times)

AZRedhawk44

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Sovereign Citizens Movement = Terrorism?
« on: June 10, 2011, 12:30:01 PM »
Rly?

http://www.ksat.com/news/28189270/detail.html


Quote
The law enforcement agency said followers of The Sovereign Citizens Movement have been known to carry out violent acts, including killing law enforcement officers and other public servants.

Redhawk says:  Statist jackboot cops that are followers of Federal DHS propaganda have been known to carry out violent acts, including killing combat veteran marines and terrorizing Stockton homeowners while neglecting their duties to perform quality investigative work. ;/

I've met many "Sovereign Citizens."

I wouldn't categorize any of them as being willing to get into gunfights over traffic stops.
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist."
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cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Sovereign Citizens Movement = Terrorism?
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2011, 12:35:37 PM »
where did that whack job and his son kill the cops?  was it missouri?  arkansas?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT1J11OYArg

arkansas
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

cassandra and sara's daddy

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

cassandra and sara's daddy

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It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

cassandra and sara's daddy

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Re: Sovereign Citizens Movement = Terrorism?
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2011, 12:43:20 PM »
scott roeder?  james von brunn?


and heres poppa kanes quote
erry Kane traveled the country with his son giving seminars on what he called "mortgage fraud" and offering advice on foreclosure strategies. A website promoting those seminars provided a trove of information -- audio files and YouTube videos and links to various documents -- detailing his world views.

One particularly chilling YouTube clip involves Kane fielding a question about a "rogue" Internal Revenue Service agent: "Violence doesn't solve anything, OK. It's not violence that we're after. The Bible even tells us that if you're going to go and make war against somebody, you have to kill their sheep and their goats and their chickens and their babies and their wives. OK?"

In the YouTube video he said, "You have to kill them all. So what we're after here is not fighting, it's conquering. I don't want to have to kill anybody, but if they keep messing with me, that's what it's going to have to come out. That's what it's going to come down to, is I'm going to have to kill. And if I have to kill one, then I'm not going to be able to stop, I just know it."
It is much more powerful to seek Truth for one's self.  Seeing and hearing that others seem to have found it can be a motivation.  With me, I was drawn because of much error and bad judgment on my part. Confronting one's own errors and bad judgment is a very life altering situation.  Confronting the errors and bad judgment of others is usually hypocrisy.


by someone older and wiser than I

kgbsquirrel

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Re: Sovereign Citizens Movement = Terrorism?
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2011, 12:49:53 PM »
AZR, I think the most amusing bit of government disinformation regarding "domestic extremists" was the DHS report that included the First Navy Jack as an extremist symbol. Homework fail.

Jamisjockey

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Re: Sovereign Citizens Movement = Terrorism?
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2011, 01:25:15 PM »
scott roeder?  james von brunn?


and heres poppa kanes quote
erry Kane traveled the country with his son giving seminars on what he called "mortgage fraud" and offering advice on foreclosure strategies. A website promoting those seminars provided a trove of information -- audio files and YouTube videos and links to various documents -- detailing his world views.

One particularly chilling YouTube clip involves Kane fielding a question about a "rogue" Internal Revenue Service agent: "Violence doesn't solve anything, OK. It's not violence that we're after. The Bible even tells us that if you're going to go and make war against somebody, you have to kill their sheep and their goats and their chickens and their babies and their wives. OK?"

In the YouTube video he said, "You have to kill them all. So what we're after here is not fighting, it's conquering. I don't want to have to kill anybody, but if they keep messing with me, that's what it's going to have to come out. That's what it's going to come down to, is I'm going to have to kill. And if I have to kill one, then I'm not going to be able to stop, I just know it."

Instead of replying to yourself a billion times, learn to use the freaking edit function.
JD

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MicroBalrog

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Re: Sovereign Citizens Movement = Terrorism?
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2011, 01:31:52 PM »
Well. There's also that SHIFT key. One thing at a time! :D
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RevDisk

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Re: Sovereign Citizens Movement = Terrorism?
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2011, 01:42:46 PM »
Well. There's also that SHIFT key. One thing at a time! :D

In fairness, lately I've noticed a trend of correct grammar and spelling, compared to a year ago.  That is progress.   Within say, five years, I honestly do expect him to use grammar, spelling, capitalization and possibly punctuation.  Fairly nominal paragraph structure and editing should be achievable within ten, at current trends. 

I honestly do think C&SD is fully capable of doing all of the above at the moment, but chooses not to for some reason.  Probably for the same reason that he's largely replaced SS as "that guy" that has to argue against every single topic.  I do feel this is a good function, that provides a cautionary measure against the APS groupthink.  I also would suggest that a touch of diplomacy goes a long way.
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vaskidmark

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Re: Sovereign Citizens Movement = Terrorism?
« Reply #9 on: June 11, 2011, 04:52:49 AM »
In fairness, lately I've noticed a trend of correct grammar and spelling, compared to a year ago.  That is progress.   Within say, five years, I honestly do expect him to use grammar, spelling, capitalization and possibly punctuation.  Fairly nominal paragraph structure and editing should be achievable within ten, at current trends. 

I honestly do think C&SD is fully capable of doing all of the above at the moment, but chooses not to for some reason.  Probably for the same reason that he's largely replaced SS as "that guy" that has to argue against every single topic.  I do feel this is a good function, that provides a cautionary measure against the APS groupthink.  I also would suggest that a touch of diplomacy goes a long way.

As the good Captain Hicks said
Quote
citizens are urged to report any suspicious activity to the Bandera County Sheriff's Office or your nearest local law enforcement agency.

I'd think that C&SD doing any of those things would constitute suspicious activity. =D [tinfoil] :police:

stay safe.
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seeker_two

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Re: Sovereign Citizens Movement = Terrorism?
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2011, 08:28:06 AM »
Hmmm....who was it that said, "If you're not with us, you're with the terrorists."......guess he was talking about the gov't, not the people....
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

Jamisjockey

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Re: Sovereign Citizens Movement = Terrorism?
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2011, 10:00:08 AM »
Hmmm....who was it that said, "If you're not with us, you're with the terrorists."......guess he was talking about the gov't, not the people....

Words have much meaning, and when Bush spewed that filth forward, I cringed. Such language is directly aimed at quelling dissent, and even so much as categorizing dissenters as dangerous.
JD

 The price of a lottery ticket seems to be the maximum most folks are willing to risk toward the dream of becoming a one-percenter. “Robert Hollis”

gunsmith

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Re: Sovereign Citizens Movement = Terrorism?
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2011, 01:58:34 PM »
So, Jamis. ... You're saying you're against us? >:D :P


Quote
The Bible even tells us that if you're going to go and make war against somebody, you have to kill their sheep and their goats and their chickens and their babies and their wives. OK?"

Sigh/swoon <3 <3 <3, I love The Bible.
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TommyGunn

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Re: Sovereign Citizens Movement = Terrorism?
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2011, 02:15:30 PM »
Words have much meaning, and when Bush spewed that filth forward, I cringed. Such language is directly aimed at quelling dissent, and even so much as categorizing dissenters as dangerous.
:facepalm:  It was intended as an act of persuasion.   In the after math of 9/11 it was perfectly understandable.
I was much more deeply offended by FDR's order to put Japanese Americans in concentration camps than Dubya's less than Shakespearian speechifying.
Anyone can make up new words that were never used in the English language.  Doing so and being understandable is a minor art form.   
Just ask V.P. Biden ....... >:D :facepalm: [popcorn]
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seeker_two

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Re: Sovereign Citizens Movement = Terrorism?
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2011, 03:09:33 PM »

I was much more deeply offended by FDR's order to put Japanese Americans in concentration camps than Dubya's less than Shakespearian speechifying.

Bush's speechifying wasn't the problem.....his Patriot-Actin' was and still is.....
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

TommyGunn

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Re: Sovereign Citizens Movement = Terrorism?
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2011, 07:55:18 PM »
Bush's speechifying wasn't the problem.....his Patriot-Actin' was and still is.....
The actions taken to eliminate "stove-piping" of info between agencies was much needed and necessary.  Many of the other provisions were not particularly well considered*, but, keep in mind that it wasn't just Shrubbie, it was practically the whole kongress.









*--in another thread I point out I dislike other provisions such as the "sneak & peak" one that really tramples the 4th amendment.
MOLON LABE   "Through ignorance of what is good and what is bad, the life of men is greatly perplexed." ~~ Cicero

Tallpine

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Re: Sovereign Citizens Movement = Terrorism?
« Reply #16 on: June 12, 2011, 09:09:15 PM »
I'm not sure why we need to take away freedom of citizens in order for two self-centered government agencies to talk to each other  ;/
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Regolith

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Re: Sovereign Citizens Movement = Terrorism?
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2011, 09:16:11 PM »
I'm not sure why we need to take away freedom of citizens in order for two self-centered government agencies to talk to each other  ;/

Yup. Shouldn't need an entirely new self-centered government agency to accomplish it, either, which was the impetus behind DHS.

As far as I can tell, all that did was create another level of bureaucratic crap.
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seeker_two

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Re: Sovereign Citizens Movement = Terrorism?
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2011, 07:10:31 AM »
Yup. Shouldn't need an entirely new self-centered government agency to accomplish it, either, which was the impetus behind DHS.

As far as I can tell, all that did was create another level of bureaucratic crap.

Exactly....Bush could have retasked NSC or DIA to handle this without creating a bureaucratic nightmare. And, let's face it, nothing that DHS has done to prevent terrorism lately could not have been done by the agencies in place pre-9/11....well, maybe not the TSA poke-&-gropes....but everything else.....  ;/

I'm not sure why we need to take away freedom of citizens in order for two self-centered government agencies to talk to each other  ;/

+1
Impressed yet befogged, they grasped at his vivid leading phrases, seeing only their surface meaning, and missing the deeper current of his thought.

TommyGunn

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Re: Sovereign Citizens Movement = Terrorism?
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2011, 11:55:34 AM »
Exactly....Bush could have retasked NSC or DIA to handle this without creating a bureaucratic nightmare. And, let's face it, nothing that DHS has done to prevent terrorism lately could not have been done by the agencies in place pre-9/11....well, maybe not the TSA poke-&-gropes....but everything else.....  ;/

+1

I will go along with that.
I don't recall FDR (who created many ABC agencies and other "depression-fighting" govt. spending programs during his first two terms) creating many other security agencies after Pearl Harbor.  The F.B.I. handled national security (and back then also did much of the work the CIA would later do) the military fought the enemy.
I think we won that one.
And, in less time than the **** we're in now as well.
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stevelyn

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Re: Sovereign Citizens Movement = Terrorism?
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2011, 06:02:33 PM »
I guess it's easier to make up a non-threatening, non-existent boogieman than it is to confront the real threats coming across the border.
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RevDisk

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Re: Sovereign Citizens Movement = Terrorism?
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2011, 12:39:10 PM »
Words have much meaning, and when Bush spewed that filth forward, I cringed. Such language is directly aimed at quelling dissent, and even so much as categorizing dissenters as dangerous.

That's kinda the entire point I see in most of these new agencies and laws.  Anti-terrorism is being handled the same way it always was.  Domestically, the FBI handles it.  Overseas, the CIA and the military.   I honestly doubt a single actual terrorist was caught with the new laws when he would not have been under the old. 

Dealing with terrorism is hard.  It's lots of routine boring stuff, with the majority of the intel coming from folks who call us unprompted to turn in their neighbor, friend or family member.  You have to chase a hundred crank calls for every one legit call.  Very boring, very routine, etc etc.

Dealing with citizens is easy.  They have limited resources, and significant compelling interest in knuckling under at the drop of a hat.  Plus you can easily make it look like you are DOING something, even if it is of no real effectiveness.  Plus, in the eyes of many in ah, internal security agencies, the citizenry is the real threat.  Terrorists can't exactly cut their budgets, or reduce staffing.  Citizens can. 


Don't try to read something overly organized into it.  It's not a conspiracy.  It's thousands of petty middle management and political appointees trying to get a bigger budget, more people and more petty authority while ducking any sense of accountability or responsibility.  They like the decent paycheck, lack of hard work, "respect" and the decent office with the impressive title.  They are perfectly willing to destroy as much of the country as needed to protect their jobs.  Especially when they can justify it to themselves as "making America safe again".

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Waitone

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Re: Sovereign Citizens Movement = Terrorism?
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2011, 06:34:19 PM »
Quote
Don't try to read something overly organized into it.  It's not a conspiracy.  It's thousands of petty middle management and political appointees trying to get a bigger budget, more people and more petty authority while ducking any sense of accountability or responsibility.  They like the decent paycheck, lack of hard work, "respect" and the decent office with the impressive title.  They are perfectly willing to destroy as much of the country as needed to protect their jobs.  Especially when they can justify it to themselves as "making America safe again".
And people such as you describe are the useful idiots to those who have a more predatory motivation.  And the way you deal with it is NOT give them power, a lesson forgotten.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 09:29:03 PM by Waitone »
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