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Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Jamisjockey on January 17, 2012, 08:12:27 AM

Title: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: Jamisjockey on January 17, 2012, 08:12:27 AM
At least here in Texas, I think we've decided enough bullshit.
http://www.ronpaul2012.com/2012/01/14/ron-paul-wins-texas-presidential-straw-poll/
 >:D
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: Fly320s on January 17, 2012, 08:20:04 AM
When is the Texas primary?
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: RevDisk on January 17, 2012, 08:42:10 AM
When is the Texas primary?


April 3rd

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2012_Republican_Party_presidential_primaries
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: Tallpine on January 17, 2012, 08:45:34 AM
Kick down the barn doors  =D
Title: Re: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: roo_ster on January 17, 2012, 10:21:41 AM
Maybe 03apr, maybe not.

The Holder doj, under the 196x voting wrongs act, disapproved of the tx redistricting plan, so tx went to federal court for relief.

Everything is still tbd.

Regards,
roo_ster
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: agricola on January 17, 2012, 11:32:25 AM
Fox (at least our version of it) seems to be virulently anti-Paul at the moment... does this mean he is winning?
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: Jamisjockey on January 17, 2012, 11:40:21 AM
Fox (at least our version of it) seems to be virulently anti-Paul at the moment... does this mean he is winning?

It means he is challenging the partisan status quo, which is what the media relies on (especially fox), for it's "nooz"
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: roo_ster on January 17, 2012, 01:43:26 PM
It means he is challenging the partisan status quo, which is what the media relies on (especially fox), for it's "nooz"

This.

I have seen and heard folk I always thought as reasonable, rational commentators go completely apeshiite over Ron Paul.

I then look into the reason for the primate poo-plosion and wonder what the big whoop is?  Every time one of the usual commentators goes emotionally incontinent over Ron Paul, it makes me want to support him just a little more.  If he is causing this level of scrotal torque among so many of the self-appinted elite/establishment, RP must be doing something right.
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: MechAg94 on January 17, 2012, 02:17:33 PM
I was never a big Ron Paul for President supporter, but I keep thinking he has to be better than Obama and likely Romney also.  At the very least, it would be 4 years of no new laws.  I could live with the few things I don't care for.

Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: makattak on January 17, 2012, 02:43:51 PM
I was never a big Ron Paul for President supporter, but I keep thinking he has to be better than Obama and likely Romney also.  At the very least, it would be 4 years of no new laws.  I could live with the few things I don't care for.

Ron Paul is dangerously naive in most of his policies. I believe he is one of the worst choices we could have for President.

However, since I think Obama and Romney are worse, I'm likely voting for Ron Paul in the VA primary. (All other choices having been kept off the ballot.)
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: MicroBalrog on January 17, 2012, 03:01:12 PM
Ron Paul is dangerously naive in most of his policies. I believe he is one of the worst choices we could have for President.

However, since I think Obama and Romney are worse, I'm likely voting for Ron Paul in the VA primary. (All other choices having been kept off the ballot.)


We have tried the common brand of 'realism'. It did not work.
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: RoadKingLarry on January 17, 2012, 06:21:37 PM
I was never a big Ron Paul for President supporter, but I keep thinking he has to be better than Obama and likely Romney also.  At the very least, it would be 4 years of no new laws.  I could live with the few things I don't care for.



Not to take away anything from RP but a rusted out, bent up trash can would be better than Obama.
Unless things change he will get my vote in the OK primary.
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: Jamisjockey on January 17, 2012, 06:51:11 PM
Ron Paul is dangerously naive in most of his policies. I believe he is one of the worst choices we could have for President.

However, since I think Obama and Romney are worse, I'm likely voting for Ron Paul in the VA primary. (All other choices having been kept off the ballot.)

What's dangerously naive about following the constitution and intent of the founding fathers?  Let me guess.... Thomas Jefferson would totally nuke Iran?
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: roo_ster on January 17, 2012, 09:27:12 PM
What's dangerously naive about following the constitution and intent of the founding fathers?  Let me guess.... Thomas Jefferson would totally nuke Iran?

No, Tunisia.
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: seeker_two on January 17, 2012, 09:31:49 PM
If Obama & company get their way, the Texas primary will be held on Nov. 3rd......
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: MicroBalrog on January 17, 2012, 09:32:10 PM
No, Tunisia.

That bastard would not even ask for Congressional authorization.

You'd wake up one day and Tunis is a smoking hole in the ground.
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: makattak on January 17, 2012, 09:34:49 PM
What's dangerously naive about following the constitution and intent of the founding fathers?  Let me guess.... Thomas Jefferson would totally nuke Iran?

What's naive is his lack of a plan to incrementally wean the United States off of the welfare state. What is naive is his thoughts that if only we weren't supporting our allies, our enemies would not hate us. What is naive is his thought that a gold standard is a cure-all.

And, yes, if Iran attacked us, TJ wouldn't hesitate to nuke Iran.
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: MicroBalrog on January 17, 2012, 09:37:27 PM
What's naive is his lack of a plan to incrementally wean the United States off of the welfare state.

John Brown didn't have a plan to incrementally abolish slavery either.

Quote
What is naive is his thought that a gold standard is a cure-all.

It's not possible to fix the welfare state without destroying state-issued fiat currency. Ron Paul knows this.

Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: makattak on January 17, 2012, 09:40:58 PM
John Brown didn't have a plan to incrementally abolish slavery either.

It's not possible to fix the welfare state without destroying state-issued fiat currency. Ron Paul knows this.


Forgive me if I'm not eager to replicate the results from not incrementally ending slavery. Care to scale up the casualties to current population?
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: makattak on January 17, 2012, 09:42:56 PM
John Brown didn't have a plan to incrementally abolish slavery either.

It's not possible to fix the welfare state without destroying state-issued fiat currency. Ron Paul knows this.



Also, I note John Brown was never elected president. I guess there's another similarity to Ron Paul.
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: MicroBalrog on January 17, 2012, 09:44:19 PM
Forgive me if I'm not eager to replicate the results from not incrementally ending slavery. Care to scale up the casualties to current.t population?

How many people died as a result of the end of slavery in England? Which was not incremental.

I don't remember there being many  casualties after 13th Amendment either (and we all know the war was not, to the North, mainly about slavery).

Besides, I doubt you'd have this view if you were a plantation slave.
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: MicroBalrog on January 17, 2012, 09:44:54 PM
Also, I note John Brown was never elected president. I guess there's another similarity to Ron Paul.

Slavery ended up being abolished outright, not gradually done away with.
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: De Selby on January 17, 2012, 10:14:15 PM
Ron Paul says things that are logical, and not corpo-politically approved. This drives everyone in the establishment nuts, because they've created an environment where any challenge to their power is an outrage to be condemned as ludicrous.

What's that?  You don't want wall street bankers controlling the currency through the fed!  How dare you suggest that monetary doesn't benefit the people!

And to suggest that Iran is less of a threat things Russia and china!  You can't be serious, Russians and Chinese wear suits and read books, them ranians is MUSLIMS!!!!!!

Haha, the most hilarious thing about Ron Paul is that his positions are basic common sense, being portrayed as radically new or out there ideas.
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: TommyGunn on January 17, 2012, 11:29:37 PM
Somehow I knew you'd like Ron Paul.   [tinfoil]
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: De Selby on January 18, 2012, 02:08:11 AM
Somehow I knew you'd like Ron Paul.   [tinfoil]

I take that as a compliment - the more I learn about his policies the more I like them.  Ron Paul wants to demolish state power and increase individual power.   That is a good thing. 
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: MicroBalrog on January 18, 2012, 04:38:28 AM
Somehow I knew you'd like Ron Paul.   [tinfoil]

Say what you will about De Selby's views, but he's always consistently supported individual liberty.
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: Ben on January 18, 2012, 07:11:11 AM
Say what you will about De Selby's views, but he's always consistently supported individual liberty.

This is the other thing that seems to be driving the establishment political structure nuts -- Paul is creating (or perhaps pointing out) common ground among people with otherwise disparate political views.
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: MicroBalrog on January 18, 2012, 07:49:36 AM
I meant De Selby, but it applies to Ron Paul too. =D
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: Jamisjockey on January 18, 2012, 08:05:39 AM
I take that as a compliment - the more I learn about his policies the more I like them.  Ron Paul wants to demolish state power and increase individual power.   That is a good thing. 

RP has been consistent in this view, too.  Unlike the flim flam artists on the stage with him.
Nancy and Newt, sitting in a tree....
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: TommyGunn on January 18, 2012, 11:14:03 AM
I take that as a compliment - the more I learn about his policies the more I like them.  Ron Paul wants to demolish state power and increase individual power.   That is a good thing. 

Too bad his foreign policy is straight out of a  TWILIGHT ZONE episode...............[tinfoil]
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: agricola on January 18, 2012, 01:02:05 PM
Too bad his foreign policy is straight out of a  TWILIGHT ZONE episode...............[tinfoil]

First Lackey:  Boss!  We gots a war comin'
President:  Start up the Congress!

Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: TommyGunn on January 18, 2012, 01:56:46 PM
First Lackey:  Boss!  We gots a war comin'
President:  Start up the Congress!

I said TWILIGHT ZONE, not RAWHIDE.  [popcorn]
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: KD5NRH on January 18, 2012, 02:05:10 PM
Fox (at least our version of it) seems to be virulently anti-Paul at the moment... does this mean he is winning?

The more Fox hates him, the more Democrats will vote for him.
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: Jamisjockey on January 18, 2012, 04:02:58 PM
Too bad his foreign policy is straight out of a  TWILIGHT ZONE episode...............[tinfoil]

What, because he doesn't want to preemptively wipe every little despot off the map?  ;/
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: Tallpine on January 18, 2012, 06:04:24 PM
What, because he doesn't want to preemptively wipe every little despot off the map?  ;/

Obomba announced today the he is going to wipe out* the majority of States that refuse to submit to the mandatory health insurance edict.  :mad:

The Dictatorship is getting pretty firmly established  :police:


* well, take over those states and make them comply
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: TommyGunn on January 18, 2012, 07:31:25 PM
What, because he doesn't want to preemptively wipe every little despot off the map?  ;/

NO ONE wants to do THAT.   Bizarro strawman argument.   [tinfoil]


Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: Jamisjockey on January 18, 2012, 07:46:33 PM
NO ONE wants to do THAT.   Bizarro strawman argument.   [tinfoil]




Seems to be the accepted right wing response to Iran. :facepalm:
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: TommyGunn on January 18, 2012, 08:01:56 PM
 ???  How many candidates are seriously wanting us to go after every last tinpot dictator?

Seriously, you propose one extreme in response to an imagined extreme on the other side. 


Ron Paul seems to want to trust Iran with a nuke.  No one has any reason to believe Iran is trustworthy with a nuke.  We know Israel is because they have them and haven't used them.
Are we really rady to believe Ahmadinejab is nothing but bluff and bluster? 
He may be but I'm not putting any $$ on it.
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: Jamisjockey on January 18, 2012, 08:09:06 PM
???  How many candidates are seriously wanting us to go after every last tinpot dictator?

Seriously, you propose one extreme in response to an imagined extreme on the other side. 


Ron Paul seems to want to trust Iran with a nuke.  No one has any reason to believe Iran is trustworthy with a nuke.  We know Israel is because they have them and haven't used them.
Are we really rady to believe Ahmadinejab is nothing but bluff and bluster? 
He may be but I'm not putting any $$ on it.

Yes it was an over the top shot back to make a point.  There is always some bad guy for them to get us riled about.  The tail is wagging the dog. 
Not quite right.  Ron Paul has said we do not have the constitutional authority to stop Iran from acquiring a nuke.  That's not the same as trusting them. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDvaTqLlZlA&sns=em

Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: grampster on January 18, 2012, 08:39:36 PM
Iirc, the Constitution says "... reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."  Individual power is pure democracy at best and chaos at worst.  That is why the Founders put together a Federalist system and a representative republic.

Ron Paul's value is the message that he has kept to all these years.  Because of Ron Paul, the TEA party became alive again.  Because of that some truly libertarian/conservative representatives are beginning to get elected and are sticking to their guns.  My guy Justin Amash is one of them.  Ron Paul knows he can't be elected but he will go to sleep one day and know the tremendous positive impact he has had.

Our national state of affairs presently has evolved over the last 70 plus years.  We cannot expect that damage to be healed in a short time.  Obama and his minions need to be ejected next year, in toto.  The key is that he must be beaten and a few more libertarian/conservative elected in the legislative branch and trustworthy respecters of the Constitution and B of R be appointed to the SCOTUS.  Incremental changes are the best if real patriots are elected.  I don't care if they are liberals or conservatives, only that they leave their personal opinions someplace else other than the courtroom.
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: MechAg94 on January 18, 2012, 09:17:11 PM
A local conservative talk guy said the other day that he agrees with probably 90 to 95% of what Ron Paul does, but that 5% or so is a doozy.  I tend to fit that also.  The biggest thing for me right now is I think I would rather deal with that 5% of Ron Paul for 4 years than Obama. 
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: Tallpine on January 18, 2012, 09:53:24 PM
Quote
Our national state of affairs presently has evolved over the last 70 plus years.

70 plus 80 years  =(
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: MicroBalrog on January 18, 2012, 10:35:46 PM
We cannot expect that damage to be healed in a short time. 

Why not?

Quote
Obama and his minions need to be ejected next year, in toto.  The key is that he must be beaten and a few more libertarian/conservative elected in the legislative branch and trustworthy respecters of the Constitution and B of R be appointed to the SCOTUS.  Incremental changes are the best if real patriots are elected. 

And a President Romney will weaken these patriots in the long-term.

Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: TommyGunn on January 19, 2012, 12:35:42 AM
Yes it was an over the top shot back to make a point.  There is always some bad guy for them to get us riled about.  The tail is wagging the dog.  
Not quite right.  Ron Paul has said we do not have the constitutional authority to stop Iran from acquiring a nuke.  That's not the same as trusting them.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDvaTqLlZlA&sns=em

No "tails are wagging" any dogs.
Should we have gotten riled up about Tojo and Hitler before Dec. 7, 1941?
Probably, but we managed to do a pretty good job of avoiding war until ther war found us.
We did a good job of treating Islamic terrorists as a law enforcement problem until Sept. 11, 2001.
And there are plenty of nutcakes in charge of some odd govt. who do kooky things and say or do nasty things about America, like, for example, Hugo Chavez in Venezuela.
Before we look for "Constitutional authority" to stop Iran from getting any kind of a weapon, from a squirtgun to a nuke, we have to have the cajones to actually go through with some plan to stop Iran's nuclear program ---and I don't think we do.


The world is full of bad guys and always has been.  There's no need to create phony bogeymen when there are real ones out there.
The big question is which ones are truly dangerous to us or to countries of strategic importance to us, or to allied countries.  Right now Ahmadinejab qualifies if only because of his antisemitic rantings and nuclear ambitions, as well as his belief in a final apocolypse.
We don't have to look for bogeymen for the politicians to use to get us "riled up,"  the world is full of them, and they're only "bogeymen" while they're pestering some other people.  When they send 19 terrorists to kill 2973 human beings inside our borders they become a national security threat.  Bin Laden was a great "bogeyman" before that; right out of central casting.

I am not trying to say we need to TKO Ahmadinejab or do anything so far as Iran is concerned.  I've already said I don't think we have the stones to do it.  But I am saying that if there is going to be another blow-up in this world .... another Pearl Harbor, another  North Korea invading South Korea, another invasion of Poland....I think it's a good bet Iran will be at the center of it.

Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: Jamisjockey on January 19, 2012, 07:55:06 AM
Nearly a trillion a year in defense spending.
15 trillion in debt.
42 million people on welfare.
Actual unemployment in double digits
20 million illegal immigrants
A welfare state run amok.
Patriot act.
Gitmo.
War on drugs.
I reallly don't care if Iran nukes Isreal.
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: makattak on January 19, 2012, 08:50:30 AM
I reallly don't care if Iran nukes Isreal.

Yes. It's a good thing the United States has no interests whatsoever in a peaceful Middle East.

On a TOTALLY unrelated note, I've heard predictions gas will be $5 per gallon this summer. That'll sure boost the economy, huh!?
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: Jamisjockey on January 19, 2012, 09:05:47 AM
Yes. It's a good thing the United States has no interests whatsoever in a peaceful Middle East.

On a TOTALLY unrelated note, I've heard predictions gas will be $5 per gallon this summer. That'll sure boost the economy, huh!?

News flash: Its already not a peaceful middle east.

Re: $5 gas
Obama killing the Keystone pipeline will probably ensure that happens.  
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: makattak on January 19, 2012, 09:11:20 AM
News flash: Its already not a peaceful middle east.

Re: $5 gas
Obama killing the Keystone pipeline will probably ensure that happens.  

News flash: it could be worse still.

And, you are quite right about Keystone. Purposely slowing up drilling permits in the gulf is another factor. (I'm not saying the Middle East is currently causing all our energy woes. But, as a fungible commodity, any problems in the Middle East will be reflected in the price of oil, even if we were able to provide the entirety of our oil needs domestically.)
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: Jamisjockey on January 19, 2012, 09:18:32 AM
Iran has also been a big issue with oil and gas speculators.  Threats to cut of the strait of Hormuz have contributed to a spike in speculative costs.
Which is the sort of blustering that plays well for their domestic audience in response to the wests big talk about them wanting a nuke. 
Its funny how everytime we start talking big on Iran, they start acting like a 2 year old.  Huh.
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: TommyGunn on January 19, 2012, 10:48:37 AM
Nearly a trillion a year in defense spending.
15 trillion in debt.
42 million people on welfare.
Actual unemployment in double digits
20 million illegal immigrants
A welfare state run amok.
Patriot act.
Gitmo.
War on drugs.
I reallly don't care if Iran nukes Isreal.



Oooooookaaaaaaayyyy..... I guess you're out of the argument, then................ [popcorn] ???
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on January 19, 2012, 11:17:05 AM
how'd paul do in his home district this time?  thats been a sore spot in the past
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: red headed stranger on January 19, 2012, 12:42:57 PM
We already have $5 a gallon gas.

We pay for our gas at more places than the pump. 
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on January 19, 2012, 12:47:50 PM
We already have $5 a gallon gas.

We pay for our gas at more places than the pump. 

a much ignored truth!
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: makattak on January 19, 2012, 01:07:51 PM
Iran has also been a big issue with oil and gas speculators.  Threats to cut of the strait of Hormuz have contributed to a spike in speculative costs.
Which is the sort of blustering that plays well for their domestic audience in response to the wests big talk about them wanting a nuke.  
Its funny how everytime we start talking big on Iran, they start acting like a 2 year old.  Huh.

This is quite true.

It's also why "invasion" has been our modus operandi for the past several decades. That or "targeted strikes".

It's because we can't make a credible nuclear threat. We have the capability, but the world knows we don't have the will for that.

If we WERE a credible nuclear threat, Iran wouldn't be acting like a two year old. As I've said many times, the United States is the most benevolent "empire" the world has ever known. (Please note I put empire in quotes because we don't actually have an empire. Just like with our nuclear response, we have the capability, but not the will. Also note, I'm not interested in an the US having an empire, just pointing this out.)
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: Tallpine on January 19, 2012, 03:31:40 PM
Quote
we don't actually have an empire

Somehow we keep forgetting to plunder after we conquer  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: De Selby on January 19, 2012, 05:37:21 PM
This is quite true.

It's also why "invasion" has been our modus operandi for the past several decades. That or "targeted strikes".

It's because we can't make a credible nuclear threat. We have the capability, but the world knows we don't have the will for that.

If we WERE a credible nuclear threat, Iran wouldn't be acting like a two year old. As I've said many times, the United States is the most benevolent "empire" the world has ever known. (Please note I put empire in quotes because we don't actually have an empire. Just like with our nuclear response, we have the capability, but not the will. Also note, I'm not interested in an the US having an empire, just pointing this out.)

If there were a credible nuclear threat, the Russians, Chinese, or us would have miscalculated in times of crisis and we'd all be carving sticks to catch dinner by now.   There's a reason we have a no first-use policy, and it isn't just benevolence.   Signaling to nuclear armed rivals that you'll use nukes to settle your military disputes is crazy.

I keep hearing about how peaceful the "empire" is - what's the evidence for this?  How did that get measured?
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: MicroBalrog on January 19, 2012, 05:39:46 PM
If there were a credible nuclear threat, the Russians, Chinese, or us would have miscalculated in times of crisis and we'd all be carving sticks to catch dinner by now. 

You underestimate how reasonable everybody involve was.

And frankly I doubt this whole 'carving sticks to catch dinner' meme.
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: TommyGunn on January 19, 2012, 07:15:37 PM
If there were a credible nuclear threat, the Russians, Chinese, or us would have miscalculated in times of crisis and we'd all be carving sticks to catch dinner by now.   There's a reason we have a no first-use policy, and it isn't just benevolence.   Signaling to nuclear armed rivals that you'll use nukes to settle your military disputes is crazy.

I keep hearing about how peaceful the "empire" is - what's the evidence for this?  How did that get measured?
What "empire" are you talking about?
We used to have a "launch on warning" policy which worked.  Beyond that we pretty much didn't advertize how we'd play the game.  Signaling to nuclear armed rivals that you will use nukes to settle ..."disputes" is only "crazy" when the statement is made outside of any meaningful context.
If the  ..."dispute" had been a confirmed first launch of Soviet ICBMs against us, retaliating with our own nukes would be very justified.   Thank God it was never necessary.  
I suppose I should be used to "lack of context" in DeSelby's posts by now .... though. [popcorn] [tinfoil]
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: seeker_two on January 19, 2012, 09:16:14 PM
Somehow we keep forgetting to plunder after we conquer  :facepalm:

....and looting....don't forget the looting.....

....in fact, we should add rape to the list, too....if our SOP was to capture and rape the leaders of hostile nations, they might just settle down a bit....
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: De Selby on January 19, 2012, 11:24:24 PM
You underestimate how reasonable everybody involve was.

And frankly I doubt this whole 'carving sticks to catch dinner' meme.

Had the US used or threatened nuclear weapons for anything other than a nuclear attack, it wouldnt matter how reasonable we thought were - the other powers would have correctly interpreted that as a sign that we were not reasonable.  They wouldve adjusted their policies accordingly, in a way that dramatically increased the odds of a first-strike by them.

How far society falls from a nuke strike depends on how many of the relevant brains get taken out - it isn't just the damage to infrastructure, which would be severe. 
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: MicroBalrog on January 20, 2012, 04:00:39 AM
Had the US used or threatened nuclear weapons for anything other than a nuclear attack, it wouldnt matter how reasonable we thought were - the other powers would have correctly interpreted that as a sign that we were not reasonable.  They wouldve adjusted their policies accordingly, in a way that dramatically increased the odds of a first-strike by them.

The USSR had no such no-first-strike policy.

Quote
How far society falls from a nuke strike depends on how many of the relevant brains get taken out - it isn't just the damage to infrastructure, which would be severe. 

With the proper civil defense measures - which at the time were taken by everybody - there would be no new stone age. There would be widespread horrors of many kinds, of course (think of the starvation seen in Soviet Russia during and after WW2), but civilization would continue.
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: KD5NRH on January 20, 2012, 05:06:18 AM
With the proper civil defense measures - which at the time were taken by everybody - there would be no new stone age. There would be widespread horrors of many kinds, of course (think of the starvation seen in Soviet Russia during and after WW2), but civilization would continue.

All we need is a nuke to get civilization back?
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: roo_ster on January 20, 2012, 08:27:37 AM
The USSR had no such no-first-strike policy.

With the proper civil defense measures - which at the time were taken by everybody - there would be no new stone age. There would be widespread horrors of many kinds, of course (think of the starvation seen in Soviet Russia during and after WW2), but civilization would continue.

They did in W Europe, at the beginning of any conflict, to soften up NATO forces.
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: MicroBalrog on January 20, 2012, 08:29:02 AM
Soviet plans for Western Europe explicitly involved a series of tactical nuclear strikes.
Title: Re: Saddle up, Texas!
Post by: zahc on January 23, 2012, 07:44:00 AM
Quote
A local conservative talk guy said the other day that he agrees with probably 90 to 95% of what Ron Paul does, but that 5% or so is a doozy.

I feel the same about every other candidate, only with the percentages flipped. So the 5% 'doozy' isn't a deal breaker for me.