Raw meat - "Halal", "Kosher", "Other religious" objections

[Stand_watie]

Vegetarianism aside, the reasons for which are obvious...

I'm not a big fan of raw meat myself, but a comment by a radio show host disparaging sushi because of a possibility of catching parasites or other disease from it got me to thinking (my own concern is health, not religious), "I wonder if any religious systems require proper cooking of meat?"

[Cosmoline]

Most sushi is perfectly kosher.  There's no requirement that fish be cooked.  Part of people's revulsion to raw fish arises from the fact that they rarely get to eat really good fresh fish.  After living up here in AK for a decade, I can't tolerate the crud that gets foisted on people in the lower 48.  But I've caught fresh halibut that I'd be more than happy to eat raw or very lightly smoked.

[El Tejon]

I eat a lot of sushi and am concerned about parasites as well.  I do an internal flush twice a year and I know the cooks of the joints I go to (both native Japanese and know their fish).

As far as Kosherness, it is my understanding that the fish must have scales.  That would leave out a lot of my favorite sushi including octopus, squid and eel.  As well is there not a prohibition on the eating of bloody meat?

[drewtam]

I eat a lot of sushi and am concerned about parasites as well.  I do an internal flush twice a year and I know the cooks of the joints I go to (both native Japanese and know their fish).

 As well is there not a prohibition on the eating of bloody meat?

I have been lucky enough to experience various sushi in Japan, it is nothing like the fish I've grown up eating in Illinois. Not even North Carolina was as good.

If I understand Jewish and Christian prohibitions, it had alot to do with what kind of animal (for jewish), and how it was killed for Christians. That is, it should be killed in such a fashion as to not leave the blood in it, such as strangling. Which has a degree of sanitation to it.

Otherwise, I love my medium rare NY strip. Illinois and Chicago (and midwest) has the best steak in the world, period.
An inch and a half thick, 16oz, bloody red, tender with the right marinade. Maybe some mushrooms sauteed in butter and red wine on the side, and a fully loaded baked potato.
mmm..mmmm... good.

Drew

[Werewolf]

I do an internal flush twice a year

Huh? That sounds kinda nassty. Mind telling us just exactly what an internal flush is?

[Werewolf]

I cannot think of a single religious food related restriction that does not have it's roots in an observation by some smart guy that if you eat that you're probably gonna get sick.

Why is it a religious restriction?

Secular attempt at preventing buds from getting lethal parasites:

Smart guy to hungry tribe: Don't eat that pig. If you do there's a darn good chance you'll get sick and die.
Tribal member: bugger off - freakin' braniacs...

Religious attempt at preventing buds from getting lethal parasites:

Smart guy to hungry tribe: God came to me in a dream. He declared pork to be unclean and that he would smite all who partake of it.
Tribe: Oh wise one - we thank you for passing god's message to us. We will not partake of pork as we do not wish to be smitten by the lord's wrath.

Yes. It is that simple.

[El Tejon]

3 part system, first is a pill, then a powder mix in the morning and then you drink a tea at noon.  You give up heavy foods and starchy stuff (like sourdough pretzels, yum).  You have to drink a lot of water as well.  You keep this up for 4 weeks.  I can post the website where I get it.

[Nick1911]

3 part system, first is a pill, then a powder mix in the morning and then you drink a tea at noon.  You give up heavy foods and starchy stuff (like sourdough pretzels, yum).  You have to drink a lot of water as well.  You keep this up for 4 weeks.  I can post the website where I get it.

Please do.

[Brad Johnson]

3 part system, first is a pill, then a powder mix in the morning and then you drink a tea at noon.  You give up heavy foods and starchy stuff (like sourdough pretzels, yum).  You have to drink a lot of water as well.  You keep this up for 4 weeks

.

Why go to that much trouble? Beans and cabbage with a couple dozen deviled eggs, some bratwurst, and a side of horseradish. Wash it all down with a 6-pack of Milwaukee's Best and finish with a tube of Girl Scout Thin Mints. It will do the trick in just a few hours, guaranteed.

Brad

[The Rabbi]

I cannot think of a single religious food related restriction that does not have it's roots in an observation by some smart guy that if you eat that you're probably gonna get sick.

Why is it a religious restriction?

Secular attempt at preventing buds from getting lethal parasites:

Smart guy to hungry tribe: Don't eat that pig. If you do there's a darn good chance you'll get sick and die.
Tribal member: bugger off - freakin' braniacs...

Religious attempt at preventing buds from getting lethal parasites:

Smart guy to hungry tribe: God came to me in a dream. He declared pork to be unclean and that he would smite all who partake of it.
Tribe: Oh wise one - we thank you for passing god's message to us. We will not partake of pork as we do not wish to be smitten by the lord's wrath.

Yes. It is that simple.

Amusing but utter bosch.

I would guess raw meats are not more popular (the Ethiopians seem to like theirs dipped in beer and ber-beri, which is a really hot spice) because raw meat doesnt keep too well outside of refrigeration and tends to make people sick.

[Cosmoline]

I'm not sure what parasites you're worried about from raw fish.  There's a very small risk of picking up some worms, but these are NOTHING compared with the nasty things you can get from eating improperly prepared pork or beef.  The fish are only remotely realated to us, and even when exposed to their parasites our systems easily digest them.  A pig or cow is actually a close cousin, and we can get some of the same things they get.  The digestive bacteria of a cow, if moved to our digestive tract, can have such a happy time eating our food they end up killing us.  The problem comes from rancid fish after it's been exposed to airborn parasites and fungus.  But fresh fish, esp. if you catch it yourself and inspect its organs yourself for health, is one of the cleanest meats around.   The closest most Americans come to good fresh fish is some stocked trout in a warm lake, with mushy meat. 

[Gewehr98]

Having spent a good portion of my military career in Japan, I absolutely love good sushi and sashimi, and don't give a rat's a$$ what anybody tells me about eating uncooked fish.  Were I to catch another salmon from the Sacramento River, I'd cook the living bejeezus out of it, and then bury it in the back yard, but that's one fish that smells dead immediately upon being pulled from the water.

Folks are having $hit hemmorhages around these parts regarding Chronic Wasting Disease and the deer herd, but I'll still eat my venison with gusto.  The disease has been present in the elk and deer herd for quite some time, and the instances of the similar human Creutzfeldt-Jacobs Disease have yet to show up in elevated proportions anywhere where folks hunt and eat aforementioned critters.

Heck, if anybody knew what went into that can of Campbell's Chicken Noodle Soup, they'd swear off of it.  (I do, ever since I worked on an egg farm...)

Immune systems need stimulation to keep active.  My wife actually had her two toddlers go play at the house of a neighbor when their child came down with chicken pox, in order for the two boys to contract it sooner rather than later.

[MechAg94]

My mother was always careful to cook beef and other meats fully.  I guess that is one reason I don't like the taste of raw beef or pork.  We were mostly eating grass fed cows that grew up on my Grandpa's land though.  My mother was always concerned about worms.  It was a real concern as the dogs would get tape worm and such if they weren't given pills. 

That being said, I think most commercial beef is controlled and medicated to the point the risk of worms and such is pretty low. 

The point above about refrigeration is key.  Raw meat does not keep without refrigeration.  Even the US is less than 100 years with widespread refrigeration.  My mother told me the other day that her grandfather's family would store beef at an icehouse in town.  They would go pick up a roast every so often and a block of ice to keep the ice box cool.  They would eat roast once a week or less and leftovers afterward. 


As far as religion, the Jews were also prohibited from eating meat that was offered to gods as well. 
I am really not aware of any Christian dietary restrictions unless it is the offering to gods thing. 

[Stand_watie]

...
As far as religion, the Jews were also prohibited from eating meat that was offered to gods as well. 
I am really not aware of any Christian dietary restrictions unless it is the offering to gods thing. 

I think we've discussed that on this forum - to my understanding there are no restrictions on Christians except for a restriction on us "offending" others - that is to say to cause a moral hurdle, rather than to hurt someone's feelings - in other words don't break out the booze when you're dining with an alcoholic.

 The early Christian debate regarding eating food that was offered to gods, as addressed by Paul, was a cultural carry-over from the Jewish restriction I believe.

I eat a lot of sushi and am concerned about parasites as well.  ...I know the cooks of the joints I go to (both native Japanese and know their fish).

I would consider that far and away the best choice for eliminating danger from sushi. One of the major drawbacks of our mass-production society, I think, is that real masters of any trade are few and far between. A genuine butcher or knowledgeable fishmonger is a rarity these days, and one who is capable of telling good beef, pork,  or fish from bad by inspection of the liver and entrails is rarer still.

[Antibubba]

There's a huge difference between sushi-grade fish and the stuff frozen in the seafood section.  At the farmers market last weekend I bought a slab of sushi-grade ahi, sliced it in thirds longways, and did some delicious things to it: sashimi and pan-seared.  MMMM!

Plus, you get some great doubletakes at work when you pull sashimi out of your lunchbag. 

[El Tejon]

Stand, I concur.  My favorite chef is the former personal cook of SIA.  When he came from Japan to the States he brought he chef with him in the '80s.  He left after a few years after the giant Lafayette plant got on-line.  His chef loved America and stayed.  His first place was a hole in the wall near the river.  He now has one of the best and most popular joints in my city.

Nick, [*warning, very graphic, do not eat before clicking link*] I have used this system:  http://www.blessedherbs.com/?sp=internal-cleansing&gclid=CMv-kZfa9ogCFQGPWAodq32nsA.  I now use Nature's Medicine Laboratories "Internal Sweep".  You can call 1-800-408-1525 or write NMC, 7375 Davie Road Extension, Hollywood, Florida 33024.

I mix in the powder with orange juice or one of those fruit smoothie things that you can buy at Payless or Target (the pound of fruit in a bottle).  Start at a low dose and build up the dose slowly.

Undergoing the first time is always the worst.  However, you will feel more energetic and it may impact your center of gravity--e.g. I can feel it impact my cg in yoga or in martial arts.
 

[Gewehr98]

Jeebus! If I wanted to *expletive deleted*it my guts out that way, I'd catch acute gastroenteritis again! So what does that snake oil do to one's beneficial bacteria after the nuclear purge? 

[Cosmoline]

What a waste of money.  If you want an inner cleansing, just eat four wheels of rye knäckebröd with King Oscar brisling as a topping.  I did that once when I had no other food.  It was the gastric equivalent of opening up with the chain gun in "Predator," or invading Russia with a phalanx of Panther tanks.  Several hundred times the RDA of fiber, plus the inherent shard-like nature of rye hardtack, sped along by the viscous oils of the sardines. It could certainly kill a weak person.

This business that the colon picks up tons of "impurities" that must be cleansed using expensive kits is a very old snake oil pitch.  It goes back to the 19th century.  What you see in those rather disgusting photos is in fact the results of the kit itself. 

[Guest]

I ate an entire "Sugar Free" chocolate bar once. You know, the ones that use coconut oil or somesuch for a sweetener...  well, needless to say I hadn't noticed the little warning that said "May have a laxative effect if too much is consumed."

I consumed much, much too much.

 

[charby]

So that "thing" that resembles an afterbirth really does come out your rectum?

[HankB]

3 part system, first is a pill, then a powder mix in the morning and then you drink a tea at noon.  You give up heavy foods and starchy stuff (like sourdough pretzels, yum).  You have to drink a lot of water as well.  You keep this up for 4 weeks.

And you do this twice a year? 

Well, at least the APS membership now knows what it takes to get the best out of one of our own . . .

[roo_ster]

El Tejon:

Have you have a Lovecraftian Horror similar to those in the ad emerge from your own pesonal Stygian Depths when using such a colon cleansing product? 

>>>TMI WARNING<<<

FWIW, I am somewhat inclined to call, "snakeoil" on the colonic cleansing deal. 

I had some, ah, "issues" down south a while back that necessitated a sigmoidoscopy and colonoscopy.  The pre-"oscopy" regimen included refraining from eating, lots of clear liquids, a powder that make me feel as if I were going to generate enough thrust to go into low earth orbit, and a doubled-up Fleet enema that also was on the "not" side of pleasureable.  I noted nothing "...the consistency of truck tire rubber. It's that hard and black." during my porcelain carnival ride.

Then, my doc was cool enough to ask (during a procedure), "Wanna look at your innards?  No extra charge."  I got to see my colon from the inside on video.  I was commended on the thoroughness of my pre-"oscopy" regimen.  No stuff "...the consistency of truck tire rubber. It's that hard and black." from whence the sun don't shine.  Nothing but a couple polyps that the doc excised.

Maybe the raw-meat-eaters need to go to the vet and get some puppy wormer, do the math, and apply it to themselves.  I'd think the liklihood of ingesting live parasites or thier eggs greater than any "truck-tire rubber" accumulation in their bowel.

Either way, good luck with all that colon-blowing.

[Werewolf]

Maybe the raw-meat-eaters need to go to the vet and get some puppy wormer, do the math, and apply it to themselves.  I'd think the liklihood of ingesting live parasites or thier eggs greater than any "truck-tire rubber" accumulation in their bowel.

Either way, good luck with all that colon-blowing.

Plus one to that...

Since there's a history of colon cancer in the males in my family I get a colonoscopy every three years. Major laxative time 24 hours before it - I don't even bother to go to work. Anyway they knock you out before inserting the camera thingy. I usually wake up about a third of the way into the procedure and lie there and watch what the doc is doing on the color TV. It's always nice and clean and pink. I'm a hardcore meat eater - probaly 3/4 of my calories come from meat and I've never seen any poop encrusted mucous on the inside of my colon.

I too believe the colon cleansing regimens are pretty much nonsense.

[Brad Johnson]

I ate an entire "Sugar Free" chocolate bar once. You know, the ones that use coconut oil or somesuch for a sweetener...  well, needless to say I hadn't noticed the little warning that said "May have a laxative effect if too much is consumed."

I consumed much, much too much.

It's called 'maltitol'. It is a corn derivative and, yes, it has laxitive qualities. My ex father-in-law was a diabetic and everyone was forever giving him chocolates made with the stuff. My first Christmas with them (before I had been warned) I hogged out on what I thought was just plain old fudge.

Christmas that year was ..... interesting.

Oh, also be careful of any sugar-free hard candies sweetened with Sorbitol. It has the same laxating effect, only stronger.

Brad