Author Topic: Many in prison don't belong  (Read 4192 times)

Tallpine

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Many in prison don't belong
« on: December 02, 2006, 08:42:26 AM »
I don't want to muck up THR anymore so I'm posting this here instead.  But there has been lots of discussion about this very topic.

http://www.billingsgazette.net/articles/2006/12/02/news/state/42-panel.txt

Quote
Panel : Many in prison don't belong
By The Associated Press

HELENA - Montana could save millions of dollars a year by moving some convicted felons, including lower-level sex offenders, out of prisons and into treatment programs that have proved successful, a panel of experts told lawmakers.

The suggestion was among those offered during a meeting Thursday of the Corrections Advisory Council, which is looking to reduce prison overcrowding in the state.

Shawn Abbott, who runs a treatment program in Great Falls for sex offenders, said many people behind bars are young men who had sex with girlfriends who were underage at the time.

"We stigmatize them badly by labeling them sex offenders and forcing them to register with law enforcement for the rest of their lives," she told the council. "We need to be able to tailor our treatment of them," she said.

Many of those offenders are classified as Level 1 sex offenders, said Mike Scolatti, a psychologist from Missoula who works with the Montana State Prison in Deer Lodge.

"In general, I don't think Level 1 offenders deserve to be in prison," he said. "These guys aren't predators."

Of the 608 sex offenders in prison in Montana, 137 are Level 1, he said. Their treatment costs $49,000 a year each, or $6.7 million annually.

"If the courts sentenced half those 137 Level 1 men to outpatient treatment, the state would save $3,381,000 a year," Scolatti said.

About 100 other inmates have completed their sex-offender treatment and are just waiting to complete their sentences, he said.

"If we leave those guys sitting in prison for another year, it costs the state another $5 million," he said, adding that the additional prison time does the offender no good.

"The vast majority of these guys aren't sexual predators," he said, noting very low recidivism rates. "Less than 1 percent of them are. Contrary to popular belief, we're getting some very good results from treatment."

Daniel N. Abrahamson, director of legal affairs for the Drug Policy Alliance, said the state could also save millions by treating drug addicts instead of imprisoning them.

Under Proposition 36 in California, about 35,000 drug users chose voluntary treatment over prison, he told the council in a conference call from a vacation in Mexico.

"One study showed that for every $1 spent on treatment, taxpayers have saved $2.50," Abrahamson said.

He said outpatient treatment costs about $3,300 a year, compared with the $34,000 cost of a year in prison.

Gary Kempker also briefed the council Thursday on a study of Montana's jails done this year by the National Institute of Corrections.

"In some jails, we saw 70 percent of the inmates were pretrial. They were waiting for trials for six months to a year," Kempker said.

"And other jurisdictions had 30 percent of their jail populations serving sentences for municipal misdemeanors," he said. "Those struck us as meriting further study."

Cascade County Sheriff David Castle volunteered his facility for a pilot study, noting that the jail population in Great Falls was reduced over the past year by acting on some of Kempker's recommendations.


Copyright © 2006 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.



Published on Saturday, December 02, 2006.
Last modified on 12/2/2006 at 12:59 am


Copyright © The Billings Gazette, a division of Lee Enterprises.
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Parker Dean

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Re: Many in prison don't belong
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2006, 09:16:43 AM »
Yeah, but then how will politicians prove that they're tough on crime by figuring out how to put more people in prison?

As a aside, I have noticed here over the last few years that the  local press goes ga-ga whenever a new prison complex is proposed. Usually it's touted as being the best thing for the economy since the invention of money. This can't be a good thing.

Antibubba

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Re: Many in prison don't belong
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2006, 11:03:44 AM »
Does Montana have a Prison Guard union to fight on this-because if they do, it'll never happen.
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Brad Johnson

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Re: Many in prison don't belong
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2006, 11:07:37 AM »
Hey, how about letting out all the paperwork felons the ATF has locked up, or are they too much of a "societal menace"?

Brad
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Tallpine

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Re: Many in prison don't belong
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2006, 12:02:06 PM »
Quote
many people behind bars are young men who had sex with girlfriends who were underage at the time.

Quote
"The vast majority of these guys aren't sexual predators," he said, noting very low recidivism rates. "Less than 1 percent of them are. Contrary to popular belief, we're getting some very good results from treatment."

The real crime here is making felons of teenagers having sex with other teenagers.

And of course you would get "good results" from treatment if the individual was not a sexual predator to begin with  rolleyes
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

The Rabbi

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Re: Many in prison don't belong
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2006, 04:44:33 PM »
This is typical newspaper stuff.
Note the headline.  You expect that many people in prison were put there falsely, etc etc etc.  No, read the article.  The people there are all convicted felons.  Convicted felons belong in prison.  Whether they need to be there so long or not is another story.  But no, those people belong in prison.
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Felonious Monk/Fignozzle

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Re: Many in prison don't belong
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2006, 05:10:38 PM »
How 'bout letting the non-violent, otherwise peaceful, never-even-had-a-traffic-ticket, but-got-caught-with-65-pot-plants "Drug traffickers" who were simply trying to grow enough marijuana for their own use and who are now doing more time than the sex offenders?

Some of you are tired of my line, but it's true:
Dad was a lifer J. Edgar Hoover era FBI agent, and still says the biggest miscarriage of justice in this country is locking up these non-violent druggies for longer sentences than  a large percentage of legit criminals.

MechAg94

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Re: Many in prison don't belong
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2006, 05:49:37 PM »
No argument there to a point. 
I would be curious of the actual facts on those level 1 sex offenders the article talks about.  That would need to be a case by case basis, not based on broad numbers.
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Ned Hamford

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Re: Many in prison don't belong
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2006, 10:07:56 AM »
I think the biggest problem with this article, indeed the mindset, is that it rejects the process driven reality of our legal system.  It relies on the pleading down incentive in order to function at all.  The 'case by case' basis is the opposite of sentencing guidelines and the mandatory sentencing move. 
note: SCOTUS made 'mandatory sentencing' illegal but the guidelines are pretty strickly adhered to, deviations often bringing ethics investigations.
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Re: Many in prison don't belong
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2006, 01:10:13 PM »
Those young men don't need forced "treatment", either.  angry

Ezekiel

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Re: Many in prison don't belong
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2006, 05:13:19 AM »
It is true, having spent years working in prisons and/or parole, that many in the system have no business being there.  (All malum prohobitum offenders, the mentally ill, victimless crime types, et al)

But it is not as widespread as most do-gooders would have you believe, and there is no way of knowing until they [offenders] are actually in prison.

It's a tough world.  Sad
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Chris

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Re: Many in prison don't belong
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2006, 05:24:47 AM »
I think the biggest problem with this article, indeed the mindset, is that it rejects the process driven reality of our legal system.  It relies on the pleading down incentive in order to function at all.  The 'case by case' basis is the opposite of sentencing guidelines and the mandatory sentencing move. 
note: SCOTUS made 'mandatory sentencing' illegal but the guidelines are pretty strickly adhered to, deviations often bringing ethics investigations.

There are still places where plea bargaining doesn't occur, though I will agree they are the exception rather than the norm.  The real problem with a plea bargaining system is that the prosecution ovecharges from the start, expecting to negotiate downward.  If a prosecutor charged correctly from eth start, and rejected plea offers for conveniences sake, we'd see batter and more accurate charging.

By the way, the mandatory sentences were not struck down as illegal per se.  SCOTUS struck down the manner in which the mandatory sentences were used.  In essence, judges were required to make factual findings and then impose the mandatory sentences.  SCOTUS said that judicial factfinding was unconstitutional, as it took fact-finding out of the jury's hands, violating the criminal defendant's right to have facts determined by a jury.  trust me on this one, as I wrote a brief to the Ohio Supreme Court on this issue, only to have them go a different way in Ohio.

As to the original topic, in my county we have a diversion system in place for offenders who commit sex offenses by having consentual sex with an underage partner, so long as they are close in age (same peer group), there are no aggravating circumstances (drugs, alcohol, force).  "Statuory rape" type offeders are given an opportunity to participate in treatment while on a probation-type status.  Successful completion of treatment means dismissal of the charge.  A good option.

Eleven Mike

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Re: Many in prison don't belong
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2006, 09:39:43 AM »
It is true, having spent years working in prisons and/or parole, that many in the system have no business being there.  (All malum prohobitum offenders, the mentally ill, victimless crime types, et al)
Are you saying that the mentally ill should never be imprisoned for any crime? 

The Rabbi

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Re: Many in prison don't belong
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2006, 09:51:05 AM »
It is true, having spent years working in prisons and/or parole, that many in the system have no business being there.  (All malum prohobitum offenders, the mentally ill, victimless crime types, et al)
Are you saying that the mentally ill should never be imprisoned for any crime? 

What he probably means is that incarcerating a person who committed a crime because he was mentally ill, rather than treating his mental illness, is wrong.
I would say that one of the elements of any criminal case is "mens rea"--the guilty mind.  Knowing that one is doing wrong is a necessary precondition to trial, conviction and sentencing.  Merely being "mentally ill" should not, imo, negate punishment.
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El Tejon

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Re: Many in prison don't belong
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2006, 10:41:38 AM »
See, I keep telling the judges this! police angel
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The Rabbi

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Re: Many in prison don't belong
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2006, 11:04:00 AM »
You could always make the argument that "someone would have to be crazy to kill his girlfriend" or whatever mischief he's gotten into.  And indeed, people who do that kind of stuff are a few daf short of a siyum.  But they knew what they were doing was wrong and that's all that counts.
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