Oregon pushes ahead with GPS-based taxing and tracking

[Regolith]

They've been talking about this for a while now, but it was so unpopular in Oregon they backed off.  Guess Kulongoski didn't get the memo.


I was going to look for a job in Oregon after I graduate because that is where my parents are going to retire and it's where the majority of my family lives (and has lived since, oh, around 1848'ish).  If this passes, though, I'm going to start looking in other states.   

[Fjolnirsson]

Kulongowski deserves tar and feathers. Around and around go the voters in Oregon. Time and again, we vote down sales tax and GPS tracking of our vehicular movements. Time and again, the legislature and governor try to get them in through the back door....

[RocketMan]

Kulongowski deserves tar and feathers. Around and around go the voters in Oregon. Time and again, we vote down sales tax and GPS tracking of our vehicular movements. Time and again, the legislature and governor try to get them in through the back door....

Governor Ted and his predecessor, ol' Doc Kitzhaber, both tried to convince the voters to allow a sales tax.  They always promised to do away with property taxes after the sales tax was enacted.  Heavy on the "after".  The sales tax, you see, was supposed to replace the property tax.
Sure, we believe them.  Really, we do.  Just as we believe they will eliminate the gas tax after their GPS mileage tax scheme is enacted.  Surely, they wouldn't lie to us.

[MillCreek]

I know so many people who live in Southern Washington and buy things in Oregon.  This way, they avoid the Oregon property taxes, which are higher than Washington, and avoid the Washington sales taxes.  Our state Department of Revenue has gotten really good at the Washington citizens who buy and register expensive vehicles in Oregon, such as sports cars and RVs to avoid Washington taxes.  Most of the time, it is a family member or neighbor that turns them in.

[AZRedhawk44]

Most of the time, it is a family member or neighbor that turns them in.

Classy neighbors.    

I used to live in Walla Walla, WA.  I worked a summer job in high school down in Milton-Freewater, OR.  Exempt from income tax because I lived in WA, bought most of my "stuff" I needed down in Milton Freewater to avoid sales tax.

So did everyone else.

A significant handful of Oregonians reversed the process... they worked in WA where the employer could care less about state withholding of taxes, leaving that to the Oregonian employee.  And... all the Oregonians would make life an absolute hell in retail by thinking their driver's license entitled them to buy a pack of bubble gum and avoid paying sales tax on it.  You'd take 5 minutes to log their purchase in a tax exempt notebook for a sub-$1 transaction.

There's some wonderful perks to living along that border there, though.

[41magsnub]

I know so many people who live in Southern Washington and buy things in Oregon.  This way, they avoid the Oregon property taxes, which are higher than Washington, and avoid the Washington sales taxes.  Our state Department of Revenue has gotten really good at the Washington citizens who buy and register expensive vehicles in Oregon, such as sports cars and RVs to avoid Washington taxes.  Most of the time, it is a family member or neighbor that turns them in.

A client of mine is a law firm in MT that facilitates just such a scam.  MT has comparatively low vehicle registration costs and no sales tax.

[BReilley]

Am I the only one who noticed...

“As Oregonians drive less and demand more fuel-efficient vehicles, it is increasingly important that the state find a new way, other than the gas tax, to finance our transportation system.”

...?

Wasn't the fuel tax, etc. cited as a deterrent to driving?  Now that it's had the desired effect, they're going to get rid of it and replace it with something that'll make sure *they* come out OK?

[Waitone]

Why the flap?  Cell phones are trackable and not a peep out of the peeps.

[ilbob]

I am not overjoyed with the GPS features of such a system. It is only a matter of time until it starts tracking you. Its just inevitable.

Its kind of like the IPASS toll collection system in Illinois. Its very convenient, and if you use it it is 1/2 the price of paying in the manual lanes. Your movements on the tollway are at least partly tracked this way, but the convenience and cost savings (mostly the convenience) won me over.

I know it is only a matter of time until they start issuing speeding tickets based on how long it takes to get from one toll station to the next. I guess that does not even really bother me much. Speeding is speeding. Maybe you can put the cops back to catching crooks instead of being primarily revenue generation.

[Manedwolf]

Why the flap?  Cell phones are trackable and not a peep out of the peeps.

Only through tower triangulation if it's turned on, which takes effort. If you choose to buy a phone that has GPS and leave it turned on, that's up to you, you're allowing the company to track you and use that for marketing.

You have the choice to buy a different phone, disable those functions completely, or turn off the phone.

[Nematocyst]

This has zero chance of going anywhere.

Even if it could pass the legislature (chance of a snowball in hell)
how long would it take to implement? (Rhetorical question.)

Budgets are drying up for even fixing potholes.
You think citizens would stand for this?

I'm laughing over here.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I know it is only a matter of time until they start issuing speeding tickets based on how long it takes to get from one toll station to the next.

been done for years

[MicroBalrog]

We're clearly pretty far down the rabbit hole.

[castle key]

Only through tower triangulation if it's turned on, which takes effort.

Different systems have different capabilities. Most cell phones can have the location turned off with the exception of 911 calls where it defaults back to trackable. Most of these systems use tower tracking requiring the assessor to triangulate from various towers. Not real accurate.

Other systems, Nextel in particular, will track to within five feet. Not good if you are on the run!! If the fugitive squad is seeking you and you have a Nextel, put it on a bench and sit six feet away. They can't find you!!

Do you think changing the settings on your cell phone actually does turn the tracking feature off. Hmmmmm.

[Regolith]

Different systems have different capabilities. Most cell phones can have the location turned off with the exception of 911 calls where it defaults back to trackable. Most of these systems use tower tracking requiring the assessor to triangulate from various towers. Not real accurate.

Other systems, Nextel in particular, will track to within five feet. Not good if you are on the run!! If the fugitive squad is seeking you and you have a Nextel, put it on a bench and sit six feet away. They can't find you!!

Do you think changing the settings on your cell phone actually does turn the tracking feature off. Hmmmmm.

If you're really that worried, pull the battery.

Thing is with cellphones, you an legally pull the battery in order to avoid being tracked.  Under this plan, if you disable the tracking device it's likely you'll be prosecuted for tax fraud, which is a felony last I checked.  Big difference.

[RocketMan]

This has zero chance of going anywhere.

Even if it could pass the legislature (chance of a snowball in hell)...

What makes you so sure?  The Oregon legislature has never met a tax it didn't like.  Neither has our Governor.  Practicality and feasibility do not enter into their calculations.

[Manedwolf]

Do you think changing the settings on your cell phone actually does turn the tracking feature off. Hmmmmm.

It does if you use BitPim to edit the phone's firmware.

[Viking]

Kulongowski deserves tar and feathers. Around and around go the voters in Oregon. Time and again, we vote down sales tax and GPS tracking of our vehicular movements. Time and again, the legislature and governor try to get them in through the back door....

Tar & feathers would probably be illegal, what with tar being hot and such, but how about gorilla glueing & feathering someone?

[Manedwolf]

Tar & feathers would probably be illegal, what with tar being hot and such, but how about gorilla glueing & feathering someone?

That's not the sort of tar they used for that. People think tar = modern sort of roofing tar. What they used for that when they did in New England towns was the sticky pine pitch that came in barrels, used for ship repairs. They'd just dump it on someone, then dump feathers on them. Sailors also used it to slick back their hair, and to keep a better grip on things...which it's still used for surreptitiously by baseball pitchers. :)

[Viking]

That's not the sort of tar they used for that. People think tar = modern sort of roofing tar. What they used for that when they did in New England towns was the sticky pine pitch that came in barrels, used for ship repairs. They'd just dump it on someone, then dump feathers on them. Sailors also used it to slick back their hair, and to keep a better grip on things...which it's still used for surreptitiously by baseball pitchers. :)

I do remember reading about how people literally got their skin burnt off by the tar used, so maybe it varied between locations?
Anyhow, hot tar, cold tar, gorilla glue...if you think someone deserves the cold tar treatment, they probably deserve the hot tar as well .

[zahc]

Do you think changing the settings on your cell phone actually does turn the tracking feature off. Hmmmmm.

My motorola will turn itself on in order to sound the alarm clock. My previous phone had a 'wake on ring' feature as well. I remember a court case in which the FBI (I think) was able to listen in on a conversation using the speakerphone feature of one of the suspects' phones. Interesting that the FBI can have such capabilities.

[Paragon]

One would presume that the GPS is only active while the engine is running unless the state wants to start providing free jump start service.

The engine would be running on a vehicle off the road, and the only way to know if it was on a road or not is to track it.

[Firethorn]

I predict that the pilot program will end up dying out -

Because the only people who sign up for it will be the ones who use MORE gas than miles driven, off road types, etc...

In other words, they'll figure out that it costs $$$ to have the GPS system installed, and COSTS them tax revenue.

If I have a F350, sign me up!  50mpg civic hybrid?  Nope.  I'll pay my gas taxes like a good little boy.

Then again - The break even point is 20 mpg.  My TRUCK does better than that.  What refund of gas tax?

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Cripes, people.  If you're that worried about your phone tracking you, then yank the battery.  Or put it in a metal box.  Or wrap it in aluminum foil.

[ilbob]

Its only a matter of time until goverments have to figure out some way of charging that does not involve a pay at the pump model.

If alternative fuels like CNG or electricity ever take hold you are not going to be able to tax them at the pump, but you still have to pay for roads.

Personally, I would prefer to see some kind of toll based on who actually uses the roads.