Why do we work?

[jackdanson]

I work three jobs, four if you include volunteering at church for four hours every sunday... I havent had a day off in 7 days, and am not going to have another off for at least another 13 days.  Sometimes I wonder why?  I could just get paid by .gov to sit at home and do nothing, instead I go to work like a chump every day only so the government can take my money from me.  I don't really have much to look forward to either, as I get older if I start making more money, they will just take more.  My mother is in her late 50's and works 50+ hours a week as a consultant to medical offices.  She pays over 50% of her income to taxes (she is "self-employed"). 

I don't make a ton of money, I might as well take the minimal cut in expendable cash and just live off the government dole.  I work with a fellow who works 15-20 hours a week and lives with his girlfriend (who doesn't work) and child.  The amount of money he is getting from his income taxes is ridiculous.  He is getting back substantially more than he is paying in.  It is blatant communism.  The government is taking my money and giving it to him.  If I don't do it they will lock me away, if I attempt to protest that, they will kill me.  And the worst part is, I'm not really that much better off than him... we both live 1/2 mile from eachother in similar homes, drive cars of similar value, etc... I have a few more "toys" (my gun collection) than him, but other than that we are in almost identical situations, except I work 30 hours a week more than him and my wife works full time.  I feel like I'm being punished for working a lot and not having kids before I am financially able.

I was listening to the Adam Carolla radio show and he was making a funny/true point.  If you were paid cash by your job at the end of every week, then went outside and waiting by your car was a tax agent who insisted you give him 40% there would be riots in the street.  Because they take it out of your check and you never see it, you don't really feel the impact of what is coming out.  And to pay for what?  Paying for senators' pet projects under the guise of "stimulus" packages?  Paying to enforce pot and gun laws I don't give a crap about?  Paying for people who don't want to work to keep the same standard of living as I do?  So I can pay to have a government that has done nothing but grow and restrict people rights for decades?

Sorry for the negative post, usually I have a positive attitude about things, but I just looked at one of my checks and wanted to throw up when I saw how much they took.

[HankB]

I blame my parents.

If they'd been rich, I'd be a rich playboy, and wouldn't have to work.

If they'd been poor, I'd be used to the welfare-bum lifestyle, and again, not have to work.

BUT . . . they were middle class.

So here I am. 

[CNYCacher]

Pride.  Good role models. Independent spirit.

[El Tejon]

I owe, I owe, it's off to work I go.

[Standing Wolf]

It is blatant communism.

Shhhhh! That's supposed to be a secret.

[Nick1911]

Good question.

I work to make my life better.

If, at some point, there becomes little correlation between how hard I work and the quality of my life, then I'll probably stop doing so.

[T.O.M.]

I work because I have this hero complex.  I believe that I can actually make a difference.  That's why I went into the Army, then to law school, then became a prosecutor, and then the current gig.  Believing my work matters satisfies the hero complex...







Oh yeah, and it gives me enough money to buy certain things necessary for my hobbies.

[grampster]

   Some people work because their work is their life.  Bless them.  My life was more important than my work.  Work financed my life.  My motto regarding work was..."If it can't be done within 8 hours a day, five days a week, it's not worth doing."

See, I believe in balance.  The day is 24 hours long.  That means you can work for 8 hours, play for 8 hours and rest for 8 hours.  Balance.   

When you work, work hard and focused.  When you play, play hard and enjoy.  When you sleep, sleep well.

Now I'm retired.  My work that I no longer need to do, continues to finance my life.
Balance is good.

   

[Werewolf]

Don't know about the rest of y'all but I work so I get to eat when ever I want... 

[Gewehr98]

That about sums it up nicely, Werewolf. 

[lupinus]

because we have to much sense of self worth and morality to sit around on the government dole and let other people who actually work pay our feedbill?

[Grandpa Shooter]

Because my parents did.  They told us its what people do.  They grow up, get out of their parent's house and go to work.


Pretty simple really.

[41magsnub]

Because I have too much of a sense of self worth to be on the government dole if I can hold any sort of job.

[bk425]

"And the worst part is, I'm not really that much better off than him... "

I don't know you, we've never met (at least that I know) but the blatant mistaken-ness of this is obvious to me. As a person of honor you receive value in being a productive part of society by engaging as a voluntary economic part of it. You are so far better off than him you might as well be living on different planets imho.

And, let say here for the record that federal income tax withholding is evil. It's not a "convenience" (as the most important woman in my life has been known to call it) the people who set this up knew precisely that it would make increased taxation rates achievable. People need to lower their withholding (new w4) and -save- every month for this so that at the end of the year they have a -realistic- feel for what their votes are costing them. Then they need to convince friends to do the same.

[RoadKingLarry]

I work to live. My life is my family and home and hobbies.
I have set things up so that in 4 years I will be completly debt free at the age of 50.
I do not work so that others (welfare leaches) can have a better life.
If this trend towards socialism (To each according to thier needs, From each according to their abilities) continues there will come a point where I will stop being a producer and tax payer.

[Monkeyleg]

I really wish that withholding taxes could be abolished, and that every worker would have to write a check to the IRS and to his state revenue department on the 15th of each month, just as employers have to do now. When you write a check for 15.3% FICA and co-FICA plus 15 to 35% of your pay, it really makes you angry. If everyone had to do that, we'd see tax cuts really soon.

[Gewehr98]

Well, yeah, that goes without saying.

I have one nagging question, though.

No taxes are fine.  I'm cool with that.  I don't like paying for Octomom, myself.

Let's forget that I'm retired military, and living on the dole, as it were. However, how good are you folks without roads and interstate highways, military protection of our nation, the guy who picks up your trash, the factory that takes our sewage and keeps it out of our lakes and streams, etc.  You know, all that silly stuff. Social Security probably won't be around by the time I get to that age, anyway.

Now, I'm sure there's some soul out there on APS who's so perfectly self-sufficient, that he neither desires nor needs any of those services. The late MercedesRules was an example of that mindset.

That's fine. Get Obama and crew to repeal the tax codes, and off you go. Just don't clamor for such "niceties" as the infrastructure you're so accustomed to starts to crumble around you.  It's what you wanted, right?

"Wolverines", indeed.     

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Good question.

I work to make my life better.

If, at some point, there becomes little correlation between how hard I work and the quality of my life, then I'll probably stop doing so.

This should be a basic economic axiom taught in every school in the nation.  We should make folks take a test on this before we let them graduate.

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

Don't know about the rest of y'all but I work so I get to eat when ever I want... 

But is work really necessary to do that?

[Balog]

G98: I don't think many here are calling for anarchy. But look at the federal budget, and see how much is roads etc and how much is welfare and the SS Ponzi scheme.

[MicroBalrog]

G98: I don't think many here are calling for anarchy. But look at the federal budget, and see how much is roads etc and how much is welfare and the SS Ponzi scheme.

Gewehr listed

1. Roads.
2. The military.
3. The environment.

(P.S. There is absolutely no reason for the government to own a single garbage truck. Even where  I live, it's done by private companies).


For fairness, I went to the latest Federal budget I could find and did the numbers:



As of 2007:

The Department of Defense constituted 548.8 billion dollars. Another 72.6 billion dollars is Veterans' Benefits, and the roads/infrastructure is 76.9 billion. A further  43.5 billion is the Department of Justice. For the sake of argument I will assume you need all of it, even the DEA/BATFE. 33.1 billion more is Natural Resources and Environment.

Here. These are the concerns you listed. The roads, environment, justice, and National Defense. Throw in Foreign Affairs, too. That's 32.5 billion.

The total number is 796.4 billion dollars.

The budget of the Federal Government, as of 2007, was 2.8 trillion dollars in spending and 2.4 trillion dollars in receipts. Of that, only 43.9% was individual income tax.

This is even assuming no DoJ or DoD programs can be shut down.

[Gewehr98]

Oh, Balog, I don't disagree.

However, I'd love to see somebody come up with something better to trim the pork from the cost of government.

Ala' carte?

Pay-as-you-go?

dickering and bartering for government services like an open-air fish market in downtown Songtan?

How much fun would such a system of appropriation be to manage, do you think, let alone the overhead costs?

"I'm not paying more than 10 cents/month to pipe the poop out of my family's house, do you hear me?!"

 

BTW, MicroBalrog, when you get over here, you'll learn there's government on several levels.

We call it city, state, and federal, and we sometimes get clobbered with taxes to run all three.

The city government in my neck of the woods still hauls trash, and plows the roads of snow, etc.

But you knew that, didn't you?

[MicroBalrog]

BTW, MicroBalrog, when you get over here, you'll learn there's government on several levels.

We call it city, state, and federal, and we sometimes get clobbered with taxes to run all three.

The city government in my neck of the woods still hauls trash, and plows the roads of snow, etc.

But you knew that, didn't you?

Yes. I also know that some cities in the US have demunicipalized trash-hauling. Not that this is relevant to the current discussion.

My argument is very simple on this:

I think that modern government in the West in general is too bloody huge. So huge that I view it downright immoral and oppressive. It arrests too many people, it takes too much money, and it uses it to regulate and ban and license way too much stuff. I think that we need to completely review the position of the State in our lives and in our respective societies. To have a revolution, if you will - just not a literal one, not with actual torches and pitchforks.

I understand that most people don't see it that way. The oppressive the majority of people don't see it that way. But I am not responsible, morally, for what other people do. I am only responsible for what I do and say.

[Gewehr98]

Yes. I also know that some cities in the US have demunicipalized trash-hauling. Not that this is relevant to the current discussion.

It's entirely relevant, you're just being obtuse (again).  You want your trash taken away, you pay the city or county government, and they send either a city or contractor-owned truck to your residence to get rid of it.  You flush your toilet, and the crap heads through the pipes and out to the sewage treatment plant.  None of those amenities are free, and my taxes fund that, amongst a bazillion other things. I find it ironic that my income taxes pay my own military pension, albeit a teensy fraction thereof.

There are so many aspects of daily life here in these United States that are intertwined with the different tiers of government, and we take those services for granted with hardly a second thought - probably because we're frogs in a pot of water that's ever-so-slowly warming up.  That, or we don't feel like doing some of those icky jobs ourselves.  Take your pick.

Your short list of expenditures above is just that - a short list.  I don't disagree that the City/County/State/Federal budgets can be trimmed, but there are a metric buttload of programs like Medicare, Social Security, road infrastructure, New Orleans levees, FEMA, NASA, DoD, good Gawd, you name it!

Until we can achieve an entirely self-sufficient and utopian society, we squawk, flap our arms about, and generally make it known to our elected representatives that we're not happy about their stewardship of taxpayer monies.  Sometimes they hear us, sometimes they don't. 

 

[MicroBalrog]

It's entirely relevant, you're just being obtuse (again).  You want your trash taken away, you pay the city or county government, and they send either a city or contractor-owned truck to your residence to get rid of it. 

Or I contract the garbage company directly. As I believe some people already do. Garbage is disposal is a bad example of a Government Service Without Which Civilization Would Collapse.

Until we can achieve an entirely self-sufficient and utopian society, we squawk, flap our arms about, and generally make it known to our elected representatives that we're not happy about their stewardship of taxpayer monies.  Sometimes they hear us, sometimes they don't. 

I'm not sure what your point is, here. Who here is advocating a utopian and self-sufficient society?

The essential truth is that taxation is a moral wrong. We acquiesce to that moral wrong because it is generally accepted that not having a government at all would be a far greater evil. Because we do in fact need an Army and Air Force and so force. But that doesn't mean that we're forever resigned to the notion of a government that plays the particular role that it plays in modern society. We can in fact reconsider the role that the government plays.