Author Topic: We have broken speed of light (Read 10217 times)

Michigander · « **on:** August 17, 2007, 01:11:42 AM »

'We have broken speed of light'

By Nic Fleming, Science Correspondent
Last Updated: 12:01am BST 16/08/2007

A pair of German physicists claim to have broken the speed of light - an achievement that would undermine our entire understanding of space and time.

According to Einstein's special theory of relativity, it would require an infinite amount of energy to propel an object at more than 186,000 miles per second.

However, Dr Gunter Nimtz and Dr Alfons Stahlhofen, of the University of Koblenz, say they may have breached a key tenet of that theory.

The pair say they have conducted an experiment in which microwave photons - energetic packets of light - travelled "instantaneously" between a pair of prisms that had been moved up to 3ft apart.

Being able to travel faster than the speed of light would lead to a wide variety of bizarre consequences.

For instance, an astronaut moving faster than it would theoretically arrive at a destination before leaving.

The scientists were investigating a phenomenon called quantum tunnelling, which allows sub-atomic particles to break apparently unbreakable laws.

Dr Nimtz told New Scientist magazine: "For the time being, this is the only violation of special relativity that I know of."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/08/16/scispeed116.xml

LadySmith · « **Reply #1 on:** August 17, 2007, 01:25:57 AM »

Well then beam me up, Scotty! grin

Although this part makes me a bit nervous:

Quote

For instance, an astronaut moving faster than it would theoretically arrive at a destination before leaving.

Manedwolf · « **Reply #2 on:** August 17, 2007, 03:46:43 AM »

Woah!!

BTW, Quantum Tunneling is incredibly cool, and one of those things that brings a grin once you understand it.

Quantum pair behavior is another one. Basically, if you separate a pair of quantum particles and move them any distance apart, if you reverse the spin on one, the spin on the other will flip as well...instantly, no matter how far away it is! This suggests that there's some thread below "our" perception of space that connects them. Which is incredibly cool.

I've also thought it could be used as a binary communicator across the solar system. If you assign one spin state as 1 and one as 0, every "flip" could be binary code in a sequence. Take a single pair or multiple pairs, separate them, put one half in a transceiver on earth, one half in one on a spaceship. Even out past the outer planets, you could have instant binary streams by rapid quantum flipping of one half of the pairs. Talk about never being out of reception range...anywhere in the universe! Wink

K Frame · « **Reply #3 on:** August 17, 2007, 03:50:16 AM »

Mtnbkr routinely breaks the speed of light at the office...

Anytime someone says there's donuts in the breakroom.

Fly320s · « **Reply #4 on:** August 17, 2007, 04:57:20 AM »

With our modern technology, has anyone measured the exact speed of light, or the speed or radio waves?

Sure, 186,000 miles per second sounds good, but that is an awful convenient number. Why not 186,211 miles per second? Are some energies faster while some are slower? Are x-rays faster than low-frequency radio waves? Has anyone measured light speed over an actual one mile course just to get a more accurate speed, like what is done for measuring vehicles?

wmenorr67 · « **Reply #5 on:** August 17, 2007, 05:05:00 AM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light

Try this for some light reading. PUN intended. cool

Thor · « **Reply #6 on:** August 17, 2007, 05:36:24 AM »

I've always maintained that the speed of light was perhaps a "constant" but not a limit. (Well, over the last 30 years, anyways) Kind of like our early interpretation of the sound "barrier".

Manedwolf · « **Reply #7 on:** August 17, 2007, 05:49:27 AM »

They haven't really broken Einstein's equations, either. Yes, accelerating an object in real space past the speed of light would require infinite energy. That curve stands.

Quantum tunneling is going outside normal space, though. Or, more like beneath it. It's a dimension outside our perception. It's sort of a shortcut.

Len Budney · « **Reply #8 on:** August 17, 2007, 05:52:50 AM »

I'm no physicist, but I suspect that tunneling doesn't count as a violation of relativity, because the light doesn't traverse the intervening space. It "teleports" part of the way, so it's actually traveling a shorter distance at the speed of light. Quantum entanglement also involves "information" passing faster-than-light, but it also doesn't violate relativity; that's what Bell's experiment was all about.

--Len.

Moondoggie · « **Reply #9 on:** August 17, 2007, 06:16:26 AM »

Soooo, from a layman's perspective this quantum tunneling is taking place in a dimension where the laws of physics as we understand them are different.

In other words, if we ever discover how to access this dimension of existence the possiblities are unimaginable. Time travel, instantaneous inter-galactic communication, extremely long range travel, possibly an entirely new form of existence.

Wow.

Manedwolf · « **Reply #10 on:** August 17, 2007, 06:18:36 AM »

Quantum physics is a good way to re-awaken one's sense of wonder, yes.

Because the science and all the data point to the very real possibility that yes, perhaps one day, moving from point to point in real space by doing so in a quantum jump outside of real space is possible. We just need to figure out how not to be squished to subatomic particles in the process.

Try looking up string theory. That's pretty awe-inspiring, too.

Michigander · « **Reply #11 on:** August 17, 2007, 07:37:27 AM »

What does it all mean!

http://phys.educ.ksu.edu/vqm/html/qtunneling.html

Einstein stated that time is an illusion, correct?

We know that time does not exist without space, right?

Hence we have space-time.

Therefore our "space-time" is an illusion, wouldn't it follow?

So this "tunneling" is operating outside our space-time illusion, yes?

I dunno!

Nitrogen · « **Reply #12 on:** August 17, 2007, 11:50:17 AM »

Tallpine · « **Reply #13 on:** August 17, 2007, 01:18:58 PM »

If they break it, they'll have to pay for it laugh

Imagine driving your new Toyota Quantum Leap to work ... you could sleep in till noon, and still get to work at 8am grin

I'd like to go back in time to some of my more foolish moments / missed opportunities Wink

drewtam · « **Reply #14 on:** August 17, 2007, 01:29:21 PM »

Quantum physics and relativity have never gotten along well. That is one of the "hot" areas in physics research, being able to combine the two in an intelligent way. Quantum physics works at the particle and energy level to the molecular level, relativity works best at the molecular level to cosmic level. Quantum is "wrong" compared to general relativity at the big levels, and relativity is "wrong" compared to quantum on small levels.

Gamma rays, X-rays to light to radio waves, are all photons, packets of light. The only difference is the frequency on the FM dial. They all have the same speed.

186,000mps is for light through a vacuum. That doesn't say anything about light through a medium. In 99.9% of the cases, light through a medium is slower. But this is the second case I know of, where light through a medium is faster than the vacuum (space).
Particles going through a medium can go faster than light through the medium. Thats why the nuclear plant's swimming pools glow that awesome blue.
http://www.physlink.com/Education/AskExperts/ae219.cfm?CFID=20169337&CFTOKEN=44224634

Drew

Mabs2 · « **Reply #15 on:** August 17, 2007, 04:24:08 PM »

I think the solution to light speed is obvious.
What moves at the speed of light? Light does.

So I'm going to go stuff a bunch of light bulbs and batteries in my car's gas tank and let you guys know what happens.

If that fails, I'm going to make a sail out of a bed sheet and put a spotlight behind it.

Manedwolf · « **Reply #16 on:** August 17, 2007, 05:04:37 PM »

Quote from: mbs357 on August 17, 2007, 03:24:08 PM

If that fails, I'm going to make a sail out of a bed sheet and put a spotlight behind it.

You can do that in space with a sail several hundred miles wide, to catch the solar wind...but it'll take you a few thousand years to get up to any speed approaching C. grin

Tallpine · « **Reply #17 on:** August 17, 2007, 06:14:18 PM »

But can you tack upwind Huh?

Perd Hapley · « **Reply #18 on:** August 17, 2007, 08:56:49 PM »

Quote from: mbs357 on August 17, 2007, 03:24:08 PM

So I'm going to go stuff a bunch of light bulbs and batteries in my car's gas tank and let you guys know what happens. If that fails, I'm going to make a sail out of a bed sheet and put a spotlight behind it.

OK, I'm just going to go ahead and say that that's not going to work. Probably. cool

Antibubba · « **Reply #19 on:** August 17, 2007, 10:44:43 PM »

I hope nobody tells Congress about this---they'll might try to impose penalties on the breaking of that law.

Being a Democratic Congress they'll believe that the mere passing of that law will prevent further violations.

Fly320s · « **Reply #20 on:** August 18, 2007, 03:22:36 AM »

Quote from: Tallpine on August 17, 2007, 05:14:18 PM

But can you tack upwind Huh?

Sorry, no tackiness allowed, but you may slingshot yourself around the nearest gravitational body if you choose.

Tallpine · « **Reply #21 on:** August 18, 2007, 04:54:11 AM »

The bedsheet and spotlight trick works okay until you run out of extension cord.

wmenorr67 · « **Reply #22 on:** August 18, 2007, 05:32:21 AM »

What if you used a solar powered light?

Sindawe · « **Reply #23 on:** August 18, 2007, 05:34:52 AM »

All this talk of quantum physics and the like is well and good. The real question I have is...

Where the heck is the freaking Jumpgate/Stargate/Warpdrive?

drewtam · « **Reply #24 on:** August 18, 2007, 06:52:49 AM »

Thats the point. If we can understand the extra dimensions (if they exist) perhaps we can travel the stars, and communicate across galaxies. Absolutely worth the investment. We could strip mine all the useless planets, terra-form the better ones.

In my worthless opinion, we need to dump the useless fusion research and mars travel and spend all that money on the physics of dimensions and faster than light travel.

Drew

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Author Topic: We have broken speed of light (Read 10217 times)