Toys for big boys (and girls); part 1 - tricked out SKS

[Stand_watie]

A couple of items I've got on my gun list, and been wanting for a while.

They've been pouring on the overtime at work lately and I'm finding a few extra shekels in the bank account, and well, "guns are a good investment" (shut up, I'm convincing myself).

Anyway a few years back, I bought a chinese SKS (right about the time the Brady bill went through, because even though I'd never wanted an "assault rifle" before, by golly I wanted one then, when I heard they were going to be "banned", and + I had a buddy who was a gun dealer who got me one at his price (he's a U.S. Marshal now, and the guy who first turned me on to the "gun control=bad" notion), and pretty much ever since I've moved to Texas (1994) I keep thinking to myself that I ought to put a folding stock on it, have the barrel cut down to minimum legal length and turn it into an 'under the seat' gun, because while I am not likely to ever need a "real" full length rifle in my vehicle, I've had quite a few sub-100 yard opportunities for hogs, coyotes, and bobcats from my vehicle (technically not from my vehicle, but close enough to do it legally), in fact even drawing down on two coyotes who stopped, looked back, and gave me a two second firing window and an over-the-shoulder-smile at about 45 to 50 yards (no, I'm not Wyatt Earp) over the sights of a .357 with a four inch barrel.

Anyway, the other day I one of those 'waking dreams' and got to thinking about reviving that idea, and thought as well as the folding stock and the shorty barrel, I ought to get a good, smoothly feeding 20 round magazine for it, "just in case Bruce Willis ever calls me to back him up in a firefight while I'm driving to work" (it could happen!). And if I'm backing up Mr. Willis in a firefight, with the news cameras rolling, "wouldn't it look nicer if I had a lovely satin steel or nickel finish on the barrel"?

Anyway...encapsulate...1. shortened barrel 2.folding stock 3. good extended magazine 4. refinish... Cheaper to just buy it already done up or have it done up to my 59 dollar cheapie myself ? If the latter, suggestions as to the best way to do.

[Manedwolf]

Yeah, but...it's an SKS.

I mean, that's cool and all, and there's all sorts of stuff out there, but...it's an SKS.

To me, it'd be kinda like buying a $200 1985 Civic, then giving it a showcar paintjob and alloy wheels and new upholstery. It begs the question of, well...why? It's an SKS. From my perspective, it's like putting a lightmount and tactical grip on a NEF single-shot shotgun. If you totally trick it out with tacticool stuff and chrome the barrel, you can take it to a range, and people will think "That's an SKS. Those only cost $89." ...no matter how much is added on.

And AFIAK, all the hi-caps for the SKS are iffy at best. That's why China went to the SKS-D that took AK mags, to feed reliably, and why everyone else advanced to the AK-47 and left the SKS behind.

It's an SKS. I personally wouldn't waste a cent on an SKS, because it's always going to be an SKS no matter how you trick it out. Especially when you can get a decent AK for not much more. YMMV.

[mtnbkr]

Paging Gewehr98 and his accurized custom SKS...

Chris

[Gewehr98]

I considered it, but I'm not gonna do it, Chris.  I don't want Manedwolf to dismissively tell me "It's just an SKS". He hasn't a clue (Where are you going to find an $89.00 SKS these days, btw?), and it's not my job to educate him. He can just plod along without - ladies and gentlemen, meet Zumbo, Pt. II. 

(It was "just" an SKS that protected the Korean store owners in LA when the cops couldn't, and it was "just" an SKS that put venison in my freezer a few years ago, too...) 

 

[mfree]

But...but...but... I like my Nork SKS-M.

Actually, if you look around there are places offering a knockoff red dot,mount, and replacement reciever cover for less than $50.... that's about as tricked as I want to go, really.

If I could only figure some way to mount a drum mag to mine though...

[Manedwolf]

I considered it, but I'm not gonna do it, Chris.  I don't want Manedwolf to dismissively tell me "It's just an SKS". He hasn't a clue (Where are you going to find an $89.00 SKS these days, btw?), and it's not my job to educate him. He can just plod along without - ladies and gentlemen, meet Zumbo, Pt. II. 

(It was "just" an SKS that protected the Korean store owners in LA when the cops couldn't, and it was "just" an SKS that put venison in my freezer a few years ago, too...) 

Gun show just now in April in Concord, guy had a rack of cosmoline-caked Yugo SKS's for $89 each to C&R buyers. (At least, I assume they were Yugos, since they had the grenade launcher)

And you misunderstand me...it's a FINE and near-indestructable "truck gun" or survival rifle left as-is. I never said it wasn't any good...it's a solid chunk of metal with a solid action. I just don't see the point of doing anything to it like tacticooling it, chroming the barrel, all that. That it's not going to add value to it as an investment, and AFAIK, apart from the SKS-D, a hi-cap mag is just asking for malfunctions.

That's all. That if you want a hi-cap indestructable rifle with a folding stock, in my opinion, you'd be better off with an AK. It's only going to appreciate in value, it's shorter, and they were designed for that purpose.

[Gewehr98]

Would you be more tolerant if it was an iSKS?

Chris was referring to my now-famous 1 MOA target SKS creation, seen over at THR and TFL.  But I also do silly things like making a 1000-yard precision rifle using a 1916 Gew98 Mauser action (As featured in the November '99 Tactical Shooter Magazine), and stuffing blown, big-block 580CID rat motors and 9-inch spooled Ford rear ends into S-10 Chevys, too.  (Or was that an iS-10?)

It ain't always about the investment or down-the-road resale value.  Trust me.  (That's Jewish for @*#%-You, btw)

This guy on THR seems to be doing a pretty good business with his very clean SKS conversions, selling each one before they're even finished. If I didn't already have a sidefolder AK and 870Mk1 as my bedside guns, I'd give them serious consideration:

[Stand_watie]

And you misunderstand me...it's a FINE and near-indestructable "truck gun" or survival rifle left as-is. I never said it wasn't any good...it's a solid chunk of metal with a solid action...

Let's say I ONLY put a folding stock on it and have the barrel shortened, remembering that realistically it's a sub-100 yard "truck gun" intended to be done inexpensively, do you still think it's cheaper/better investment in the long run to get an AK? Genuine question, not a curveball. Give me figures.

I can afford an AK. It's a realistic option - I'm not trying to set you up, I just want a genuine opinion based on your knowledge.

In return to you for giving me a genuine opinion, I'm going to give you one. When you you emphasize "it's just an SKS",  you are, to me, stating a diametrically opposite thing to your statement of

it's a FINE and near-indestructable "truck gun" or survival rifle left as-is..

One of those statements sounds pragmatic to the pragmatic reader..the other sounds gun-snobbish.
 

[Antibubba]

The reason you modify a "truck" gun is to make it easier to use when you need it.  I can see adding Tech-Sights and a good sling, and maybe a synthetic stock, but that's it.

[Manedwolf]

And you misunderstand me...it's a FINE and near-indestructable "truck gun" or survival rifle left as-is. I never said it wasn't any good...it's a solid chunk of metal with a solid action...

Let's say I ONLY put a folding stock on it and have the barrel shortened, remembering that realistically it's a sub-100 yard "truck gun" intended to be done inexpensively, do you still think it's cheaper/better investment in the long run to get an AK? Genuine question, not a curveball. Give me figures.

I can afford an AK. It's a realistic option - I'm not trying to set you up, I just want a genuine opinion based on your knowledge.

As far as figures, I can say that for $259-$289, you can get a composite-stocked Saiga in either 5.56 or 7.62, and , truly being a Russian Kalashnikov with a chromelined barrel, making it not work would likely require running over it with a train. For $160 more, you can stick an ACE package with a SAW grip and folding stock on it, the ACE stock being really well-made. And if you want to tinker, you can make it into a "real AK" that takes standard mags and has the trigger moved forward. If you want to spend more, you can get a Romanian WASR that was well-converted (no wobbly mag from enthusiastic dremeling) or SAR, but the finish kind of sucks, a Yugo underfolder, or get really spendy and get a new folding-stock Bulgarian Arsenal AK for over $700.

And I don't mean to sound elitist, I was just wondering on the return on investment for putting that much money into an SKS as you first mentioned. It is a decent rifle, yes, with a solid action, but IMO, by the time you're done upgrading the sights, stock, mag, etc...you may have spent more than a solid AK, and in my opinion, the AK is more suited to be an indestructable "truck gun"...and if you want to have return on investment on a future sale, a pimped-out AK seems to always bring a good dollar amount on auctions. I've personally seen someone's frustration with trying to sell their sporterized SKS at a gunshop, (and it was a nicely done one) and the store owner telling them, regardless of what they'd done to it, and perhaps incorrectly as such...that SKS's were just "too common". You mentioned, in your OP, the idea of "guns are a good investment". My point was that not all will appreciate in value, at least not right now. That applies to the choice of all sorts. Look at cheap (or were) milsurp. Mosin-Nagants have been at the same cheap price for years, around $90, though they're excellent shooters...there's just so many of them available. Swiss K-31s, though, also excellent, have jumped from $90 to $190 or more just in the past couple of years because the supply is drying up..especially for walnut-stocked ones. For investment, I wouldn't consider an SKS. For a toss-around or a "don't care if you wreck it" project, sure!

That's all.

[Mannlicher]

I have to say, a tricked out SKS has no more functionality, and less cost justification than a stock one.................

[Gewehr98]

Again...

It ain't always about the return on the investment.   

(Ask the folks who bought Pontiac Aztecs)

[mtnbkr]

ask the folks who sporterized their O3A3 back when they were cheap surplus guns.

Chris

[Gewehr98]

Chris, touche'.  Folks with an intent to retire on their milsurps investments should indeed leave things alone. I've got some seriously nice original military longarms dating back to the 1870s, but they're going to the NRA museum when I take my dirt nap.  My wife gets the VGLI life insurance policy as her reward. 

Although, looking through some gun auctions, the folks who buy examples of sporterized 1903 rifles from R.F. Sedgley and Griffin & Howe would beg to differ.   

[mtnbkr]

Umm, I completely mixed two trains of thought with my post.  That'll happen when you're trying to type as a coworker is talking to you.

Two points: For the folks that think an SKS is just a cheap gun, the O3A3 was just a cheap gun back in the day.  For the folks that say you shouldn't waste money customizing a cheap gun, Gewehr's Sedgley and Griffin & Howe examples illustrate what a QUALITY rebuild can do for a gun's value.   Problem is, you'll never know what's going to be collectable and valuable in the future. 

Chris