Depression, not Recession

[Ned Hamford]

Now that its mentioned, unemployment and living with mom and dad is the norm for my graduating class.  

Lets not forget tho, sleeping under a bridge is illegal for the rich man and poor man alike.

[BridgeRunner]

Now that its mentioned, unemployment and living with mom and dad is the norm for my graduating class.

Hey, I just applied for a doc review job in South Carolina.  Guess I better start google-mapping some bridges to sleep under. 

Lets not forget tho, sleeping under a bridge is illegal for the rich man and poor man alike.

Seeking shelter in state park  or national forest campgrounds is not.  That's only illegal for people who need the shelter. 

Know why?  Of course you do, but I'll spell it out anyway:

Park campgrounds are the only such scenario where the rich man is as likely to seek the shelter.  Laws against sleeping under bridges are not illegal because it is injurious to any particular person to have someone sleep under a bridge.  It's illegal because homeless people sleep under bridges, homeless people are perceived as a criminal element, and people don' want a perceived criminal element to exist, especially not where they can see it. 

[makattak]

Now that its mentioned, unemployment and living with mom and dad is the norm for my graduating class.  

Higher Education Bubble

Glenn Reynolds has been posting a lot about it lately.

I've been in complete agreement. Having taught college students, more than half of them don't belong in college.

We should be encouraging skills based education as well as knowledge in schools.

We don't and we're going to suffer for that.

[BridgeRunner]

I've been in complete agreement. Having taught college students, more than half of them don't belong in college.

I'm always tempted to post my LSAT and IQ scores on my resume, along with the statement "This document and any documents accompanying it have been authored and edited solely by me".  

[makattak]

Incidentally, the college degree is fast losing value like the high school degree did. (Edit: as is evidenced by BW's post above.)

Employers started requiring college degrees when graduating from high school started meaning you are able to show up at a building at least some of the time until people finally pushed you out.

A college degree has been devalued as well: those graduating haven't become much more productive than when they entered, they just now have a signal that they are slightly brighter than those that couldn't make it through college.

It's a shame, too. When our society decided everyone should graduate high school we dumbed down school.

We should have examined our beliefs and realized maybe not everyone should graduate high school. Not everyone should go to college.

Everyone should have an option to increase their value, whether it be through education or skill development.

Why have we devalued skilled labor? In this matter, I love what Mike Rowe is doing.

[longeyes]

have heard the exact same thing said, but substituting 'conservative' for 'liberal' and inserting various Republican names in place of the Democratic ones.

I guess it all depends on whose ox is being gored, eh?  I have been around long enough to know that such sweeping generalizations, regardless of which end of the political spectrum you fall, are rarely valid.  But they make great sound bites.

That wasn't a "sweeping generalization," it was an inference based on specific people I know and colloquy with, that's all.

As for people like Geithner, Summers, and Reich, among others, they claim expertise, and they should be able to demonstrate it.  So far, nada.  I am still trying to figure out how Geithner managed to get the head job at the NY Fed with his resume, by the way.

[lee n. field]

Now that its mentioned, unemployment and living with mom and dad is the norm for my graduating class.  

Kid #3 just moved back in.  Out of school for 1.5 years, with a BS in math and physics.  Currently ecking out a living of sorts doing inventory.

[MicroBalrog]

Why have we devalued skilled labor? In this matter, I love what Mike Rowe is doing.

It's called progress. The value of a Westerner's labor increased to the point we're more valuable as barristas and translators then we are as miners. A century from now, the same will no doubt expand to more and more countries - unless someone touches off a world socialist revolution or something.

[RoadKingLarry]

Why have we devalued skilled labor?

In part because there are too many people that are incapable of "skilled labor" and think that brain work is all that really matters. Since they can't do it they think they must be better than those that can and do.
City dwellers like to look down there noses at the "sanitation engineers" but how long would their cities be habitable with out the trash collector?
Like you flush toilets and hot and cold running water? Thank a plumber.
Enjoy living in a cozy dry house? It wasn't built by a corporate lawyer.
Kind of nice to be in the comfort of air conditioning when the temps hit 100+. I'd bet you don't call an English lit professor when the AC breaks down in July.

[makattak]

It's called progress. The value of a Westerner's labor increased to the point we're more valuable as barristas and translators then we are as miners. A century from now, the same will no doubt expand to more and more countries - unless someone touches off a world socialist revolution or something.

As an economist, I must disagree.

Wage for skilled electrician: $13.73 to $20.93

Wage for barista: $7.24 to $9.04

Wage for plumber: $14.43 to $21.92

Wage for translator: $13.24 - $26.23

We're obviously not more valuable as baristas and only sometimes more valuable as translators.

Yet, we generally don't encourage people into trade skills. It's curious.

[Nick1911]

This is why, at least in part, I want a cert in a skilled trade that won't go away.

Anyone, anywhere can hack out python code.  But, can a guy in India fix your air conditioner over the phone? 

[MechAg94]

I know that in the chemical industry down here, good instrument and electrical technicians are valuable.  The problem for young people is that they normally have to pay their dues and work hard for contractors in order to get the experience needed to get the better paying jobs as company employees at plants.  The pay can eventually be very good if they can develop expertise at PLC controllers, analyzers, or high voltage gear.  I have also heard the same said about good welders being hard to find.  

I know one instrumentation supervisor I used to work with always said there weren't very many good technicians younger than him.  Most of the younger guys who were smart went into computers, or control programming, or just college in general.

That said, degrees in the primary engineering fields (electrical, chemical, mechanical) from good schools are still in decent demand as far as I know.  I know my company is one that has required degrees for certain jobs over the last 15 or 20 years, but mostly it is engineering degrees.

I have wonder if an associates degree in a technician job plus 2 years experience will get you a job faster and maybe at better pay than a C average in a general studies type degree from an average university.  The biggest difference with college degrees is usually in what you are doing 30 years later.

[TommyGunn]

I don't think its a depression until we see more Hoovervilles.  Obamavilles.

Fixed it for you!!   

[Tallpine]

City dwellers like to look down there noses at the "sanitation engineers" but how long would their cities be habitable with out the trash collector?
Like you flush toilets and hot and cold running water? Thank a plumber.
Enjoy living in a cozy dry house? It wasn't built by a corporate lawyer.
Kind of nice to be in the comfort of air conditioning when the temps hit 100+. I'd bet you don't call an English lit professor when the AC breaks down in July.

Very true!

[longeyes]

The education system is geared against training skilled laborers.  It's about empire-building and bureaucracy.  School systems are top-heavy with administrators who, experientially and philosophically, are not comfortable with "blue collar" career tech education.  Parents also have been sold on the idea that their kids need white-collar educations and degrees to advance financially, even if many of those kids would be far better off learning a "trade."  Then there's the "third rail" of race and ethnicity: the ed powers that be do not wish to be accused of creating a caste of minority blue-collar workers.  And did I mention the unions that want to strictly control the amount of people on their rosters?  As has been well noted, skilled labor, right now, isn't considered "cool" in a society that wants 15 minutes of fame on YouTube, and, yeah, it's often hard work that takes a toll.

[MechAg94]

It also isn't just a financial matter.  A lot of people are genuinely happier if they can work with their hands and build something they can see, touch, and feel.  Not everyone is happy being a desk jockey.  


I guess the other side of things is that with more people earning college degrees, the competition is that much harder.  You better try to get in the better school, try for the more difficult degree, and get better grades.  Otherwise, you find yourself at the bottom of the resume pile.  

[sanglant]

I am still trying to figure out how Geithner managed to get the head job at the NY Fed with his resume, by the way.

going by his facial expressions i'm starting to think THE obama likes his "monicas"

[Perd Hapley]

City dwellers like to look down there noses at the "sanitation engineers" but how long would their cities be habitable with out the trash collector?
Like you flush toilets and hot and cold running water? Thank a plumber.
Enjoy living in a cozy dry house? It wasn't built by a corporate lawyer.
Kind of nice to be in the comfort of air conditioning when the temps hit 100+. I'd bet you don't call an English lit professor when the AC breaks down in July.

I like razzing the city slickers as much as the next hayseed, but there are a whole lot more plumbers and AC repair guys in cities than in the countryside.  Because that's where most of the work is. And of course, there are lawyers and other desk jockeys in the country, too.

Now, maybe country folk are nicer or more respectful to the handyman, but country folk tend to be more polite, of course. :)

[Monkeyleg]

Now, maybe country folk are nicer or more respectful to the handyman, but country folk tend to be more polite, of course.

You say somethin', city boy?

[makattak]

You say somethin', city boy?

DUDE, he's got a serious problem with his thyroid.