say it ain't so joe

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

a twofer
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/sep/2/feds-sue-arizona-sheriff-civil-rights-probe/

Edited for violating copywrite copyright policy.

Edited for spelling.

[dm1333]

"The actions of the sheriff's office are unprecedented," said Thomas Perez, assistant attorney general for the department's civil rights division. "It is unfortunate that the department was forced to resort to litigation to gain access to public documents and facilities."

Yes, and the inaction of the federal government in stopping the problem (illegal immigration) is also unprecedented.  But let's not talk about that.  Nuthin' to see here, everybody keep moving. 

[kgbsquirrel]

*ponder* Can the Sheriff arrest any feds that come down there for "failing to enforce the immigration laws of the U.S."? Whatever fed court it goes too will probably toss it out, but it would be mighty inconvenient for a few days rather press worthy. That was a serious question btw, is that actually possible?

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

at some point even joes posse will back away slowly from him. i think unless he retires that will be sooner rather than later

[BMacklem]

I believe that the county sheriff is the top dog ...trumping even federal people.
They're supposed to coordinate with local sheriff, and get his permission to execute federal warrants first.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

in his county? maybe  some of the folks that opine that loudest are "interesting" and i've not seen a sheriff stand up and bark yet.  and joes about to go do battle in fed court, twice.  his track record in court is even worse than his recidivism rate and his overall crime rate stats .  and they suck. this will take him well over a 100 mill in payouts and that doesn't count legal fees and some of the secret out of court sttlements.  with the counties current liability deductible at 5 mill they are getting close to being self insured

[Perd Hapley]

So the openly racist DOJ is running this investigation? 

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

yes  well in one case the civil rights division is  then theres that pesky federal grand jury in part 2

n a separate investigation, a federal grand jury in Phoenix is examining allegations that Sheriff Arpaio has abused his powers with actions such as intimidating county workers by showing up at their homes at night and on weekends.


one thing after another  and another  and another.....

[roo_ster]

Looks like a FOIA nugget and a previous investigation of MCSO by the federales could doom DOJ's case latest case vs MCSO as well as the case vs MCCC and the Arizona law.

Linky-poo:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/New-evidence-undermines-feds_-case-against-Arizona-705578-102106209.html

Summary:
MCSO has already been investigated for racial profiling, how it deals with illegal immigrants, etc. by ICE.  ICE completed a report on the months-long investigation and a FOIA request just knocked it loose from the political appointees' hands.

The report gave MCSO a clean bill of health.  Bottom line:
"The OI and DRO supervisors consider the conduct and performance of the MCSO ... officers to be professional and meeting the requirement of the MOA."

IOW, MCSO was working in accordance with fed/ICE guidelines and a memorandum of agreement with feds/ICE.

The report is chock full of comments like how MCSO and ICE have an "excellent" working relationship and the fed prosecutor said the cases brought by MCSO were "high quality."

Also, there are a few federale emails later that hint at political motivations for the new investigation.

Something must also be clarified:
The same MCSO that had an "excellent" relationship with the feds six months prior to the current investigation is NOT being sued for racial profiling.  It is being sued for not cooperating with the newer federale investigation.

My Take:
Holder & Obama's DOJ looks like the keystone kops.  Remember the terrorists they wanted to try in NYC, but then realized that wasn't going to happen.  Now, they are suing MCSO for non-cooperation after reporting that MCSO did not profile, followed federale guidelines, and cooperated fully with an investigation that ended just six months after the latest one began.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

so whats your take on arapio refusing to release documents?  and how would you attempt to apply ice's evaluation of his "law enforcement" on the street to a case that focuses on his award winning jail?  award winning for those who file suit that it.  sadly generally that means they've killed crippled or otherwise abused someone.  like the case where they turned the paraplegic into a quadroplegic while smiling and grinning for the camera.  that video was a hit with the jury  of course the paraplegic was holding a whopping gram of marijuana so that made him a narco terrorist
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/1997-01-23/news/jailers-show-a-paraplegic-who-s-boss/1/

or the blind guy who died after his tuneup? after 6 days in his cell with a perforated bowel.....  god the duke would be proud


Broken promises

When Arpaio was first elected in 1992, he signed a notarized declaration that he would quit after one term. That promise was broken, as was a vow to eliminate the Valley's narcotics problem within four year
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/1103arpaio1104.html


but its good to see REAL freedom lovers have his back so well

[roo_ster]

I didn't address most those issues, as the OP does not address those issues. 

Sound like interesting issues.  Why don't you start threads about them?  Or resurrect old threads you started in the past and ask the questions again?

Do you have anything of use to add WRT your original post?

I don't know if the author of the article "has his back," but the additional information developed by the fed.gov itself sure does sound pertinent to the case and contradicts what the feds are alleging.

I dunno, but I don't think this is going to end up the way the DOJ/Holder/BHO hope it is going to end up.

I guess my take on the fed's accusation of non-cooperation is that it is severely undermined by the existence of a report, by the federales, that MCSO cooperated with a previous investigation six months prior and was found no to engage in racial profiling.  I suspect that if the DOJ Civil Rights division knew of its existence, they would have tried harder to quash the FOIA query and/or chosen different grounds to sue MCSO.

Also, we ought to recall that the DOJ civil Rights division is hte one that has management stating they'd never sue on behalf of white people who have been discriminated against and dropped the (already won) case vs the Black Panthers threatening folks at a polling place.  If MCSO is as dirty as you allege and DOJ CRD thinks, the DOJ CRD is the wrong tool for that job, having shown blatant bias against folks like Arpaio.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

the additional information developed by the fed.gov itself sure does sound pertinent to the case and contradicts what the feds are alleging.


the case hes been stonewalling on relates in part to his wonderful jail  the one that has a HIGHER recidivism rate than the rest of the state.not to mention being a cash cow for the lawyers.  the ice report on his sweeps and training are wonderful and make me wonder whats hes hiding about his jail?  its not like its a secret what goes on there  joes proud of it  almost 50 mill proud so far

[roo_ster]

I'm not sure why you get your panties in a wad over lawsuits against a county jail.  It is like getting outraged over water that happens to be wet(0). 

Dallas county has the anti-Arpaio running the jail & sheriff's dept.  Lupe Valdez of Mexican descent, a Democrat, blind lesbian dentist.

Instead of tent cities, she hires on Homosexual Reach-Around Outreach Coordinator deputies.  Instead of pink jumpsuits, she has a "no car chase" policy.

Despite all her politically correct goodness(1), the Dallas County Jail gets sued, too, for Really Bad Things that happen there.  For millions.

DCSD also gets investigated by the federales and even class action suits.

Google "dallas county jail lawsuit" and read a bit, keeping a tally of lawsuits, million-dollar awards, federal investigations, and out of court settlements.  Take off your shoes & socks, if need be.  Heck, take off your children's shoes & sock, you're gonna need them.

And, what about the Dallas County Jail recidivism rates relative to the TX average?  Well, Lupe's splendiferous "three-fer(2)" status does not differentiate her from that mean old Arpaio, in that BOTH jails have recidivism rates higher than the state average (as far as I can find).

I might begin to think that county jail recidivism may be less a function of kid glove vs bare knuckle treatment and more a function of big-city crime.  Or some other factor we have yet to take into account.

MCSO is by no means unique...except that leftists like target it and make a big fuss, while getting sympathetic coverage from the press. 







(0)  Maybe you just don't like Italian-Americans?  You sure have taken up with a bunch of folks who foam at the mouth at the mention of the name "Arpaio."  There aren't so many nowadays, but plenty of folks still don't like the idea of a man with such an ethnic background in a position of power.


(1)  Did I mention she has little use for men, outside of helping her move her furniture?  I sure got an earful last election.

(2) Woman, lesbian, non-Asian minority

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

i was an early fan of arapio.  but i kept getting wiffs of an aroma  stronger and stronger.  you mention the suits in dallas?  wanna compareb rates? dollar amounts? he gets sued more than new york city which has many more crooks/prisoners as well as a more voraicious land shark.  he sold folks that same old 4 year end to the drug war that nixon sold and the marks still buy it.  how many folks has  your problem sheriff croaked? locked up many reporters?  city officials?  if this was other than sheriff joe some of his fans would be screaming jbt but since some part of his plan strikes a harmonious note with their agenda his atrocities are "different"

[roo_ster]

My point is that his atrocities aren't much different than those found elsewhere.  Arpaio is just a bigger target for the lefties to shoot at.  Partly his own fault for blowing his own horn.

As for your bill of particulars, Dallas County's Finest can match you for inmate deaths and political intimidation.  Not sure about actual incarceration, but I can raise you corrupt county constables who use their subordinates to get re-elected and sell NICS data to gang members for money.

I don;t recall any reporters being harassed, but how about sitting quietly in a bar, nursing a drink for an hour and getting arrested for pubic intoxication? No need for breathalyzer or blood test, all the TABC or Dallas County Deputy needs is to see you drinking.  See, The LEOs around here are all hot-to-trot over Texas DUI stats and are skirting the law and distorting it any way they can to make showy arrests.  Sound familiar?  MADD and their supporters are to many Texas LEOs what illegal immigration foes are to Arpaio.

I'd guess the Dallas county sheriff's equivalent broken promise would be to pass a federal inspection and meet minimum standards.  Every year they'd fail, swear to pass next year and then fail again.

I haven't lived in your neck of the woods, but from your comments, the local LEOs don;t sound much different, power-abuse-wise, only you seem in favor of it.

When the left-tards go all frothy over Arpaio, it looks like a thinly-veiled excuse to go after a political enemy, becasue you don;t have to travel to Arizona to find elected LEOsabusing their authority.

WRT to Arpaio going after illegal aliens,it is nice to see police powers used against actual criminals instead of giving citizens a hard time.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

match this?

here simply isn't another jail system in America with this history of taxpayer-financed litigation.

New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Houston, for example, collectively housed more than 61,000 inmates per day last year. From 2004 through November of this year, these same county jails had a combined 43 prison-conditions lawsuits filed against them in federal courts.

In the very same three-year time frame, despite housing a mere 9,200 prisoners per day, Sheriff Arpaio was the target of a staggering 2,150 lawsuits in U.S. District Court and hundreds more in Maricopa County courts.

With a fraction of the inmate population, Arpaio has had 50 times as many lawsuits as the New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Houston jail systems combined.

[roo_ster]

Dallas County can not meet that sheer number of lawsuits(1), but it does meet/exceed (as far as I can determine) the number of serious, no-s**t, somebody got seriously abused lawsuits. 

Stuff like folks who die in jail through malevolence, neglect, etc.  Folks who suffered some terrible injury or maiming due to jail folks not getting them treatment in a timely manner.  "Oops, we lost you in the system for 60 days."  That sort of stuff. 

Anyways, this web site says 5000 lawsuits and $42million:
http://www.joesgottogo.com/lawsuits.html

I googled six or 7 and they all were prison condition related, either explicit complaints about the tents & chow or refer to federale standards for jail-running not being met.  (The latter of which could be any of the jailbirds through Dallas County's jail.)

The ACLU is representation on a potful that were combined into a class action.  I would not be surprised if the vast majority are sourced out of very few attorneys.  IOW, there is a lot of gold-digging and lawfare(2) going on.

Oh, I'm sure a bunch of them are more substantive than a prisoner who got his feelings hurt that he had to spend a week in tents, but the ACLU (who are supposed to be the pros) can hardly do more than complain about Arpaio's flashy measures:
http://www.aclu.org/prisoners-rights/graves-et-al-v-arpaio-et-al-pretrial-brief

That ^^^ is some pretty weak tea by the heavy-hitters in the league.  It amounts to jailbirds not happy about and complaining about being in jail.  Cry me a river.

After spending a few minutes on Joe's sins, the sin that sets him apart from Dallas County's sheriff (and almost ALL the other big-metro sheriffs) is his flamboyance and refusal to toe the politically-correct sanctuary-city line (Dallas being one...I'd bet dollars to donuts Houston and NYC are, too).

Maybe THAT is th real scandal: they are all a bunch of thugs.


I dunno, sounds like you have a double-standard for LEO thuggishness.  One for folks who use it almost exclusively on Americans and another for those who bring it on non-Americans who are criminals by their very presence on American soil.  You laud thuggishness in your state, while denouncing it elsewhere.

And this whole, "I used to be a supporter of Joe's..." sounds like either a spurned lover or a seminar caller.

After taking a little time to dig into your links & "how about those 2100 lawsuits?" sort of posts, I think I'll no longer grant you much credibility on this issue, especially as to how Arpaioi's supposed to be exceptionally bad/corrupt/whatever relative to other Sheriffs in big metro areas.  Once past the thin icing of accusation, where one expects a pound cake, one finds a spongecake.




(1)  How many lefty, ACLU-bound law students & law profs are going to help sue a lefty female lesbian Mexican American?  Yeah, not many takers.  But, dangle Arpaio in front of them...


(2) Use of legal system as a weapon.  We see the Saudis and other Islamists using lawfare and venue-shopping to silence critics.  We saw another kind in the multiple groundless lawsuits vs Palin after the election.  It looks like the tactic is being used vs Arpaio, trying to destroy him and make him look exceptional when he is more garden-varoety.

[sumpnz]

match this?

here simply isn't another jail system in America with this history of taxpayer-financed litigation.

New York City, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Houston, for example, collectively housed more than 61,000 inmates per day last year. From 2004 through November of this year, these same county jails had a combined 43 prison-conditions lawsuits filed against them in federal courts.

In the very same three-year time frame, despite housing a mere 9,200 prisoners per day, Sheriff Arpaio was the target of a staggering 2,150 lawsuits in U.S. District Court and hundreds more in Maricopa County courts.

With a fraction of the inmate population, Arpaio has had 50 times as many lawsuits as the New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Houston jail systems combined.

And how many of those lawsuits were found to have any merit?  Could it be, perhaps, that the inmates in Maricopa County are simply being encouraged by foes of Arpaio to take advantage of a system that might be easier to do so in to file tons of frivolous lawsuits?  I could file 1000 lawsuits against you alleging [insert imagined harm here] but that doesn't make you any more guilty of [imagined harm] than roo_ster, against whom I've not filed any lawsuits.

Oh, and you might want to edit the text from whatever screed you got that from before you just copy and paste.  It ain't November yet.

[Perd Hapley]

He could at least cite his sources.

[longeyes]

Think of Sheriff Joe as the impresario of a rather wretched circus sideshow, but he's not the one who invited the circus to town.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

And how many of those lawsuits were found to have any merit?

counting outa court settlements? we'll never know but hes over 50 mill in payments in cases hes lost and the current deductible for their liability insurance has gone from 1 mill to  5 mill .  and they pay 1.2 mill a year in premiums  up from 325 k a year pre king joe
what are the tax payers paying for?  improvement in recidivism?  well no.  lower crime rate? no again even as crime falls elsewhere in state in joes hood it goes up?  how could that happen with americas toughest sheriff in the viewfinder...er i mean at the helm.


oh and the 41 mill?  doesn't count the prison condition law suits thats just for those maimed and killed.
it also doesn't count suits caused by his correctional health services unit

the 2150 conditions suits are just the federal ones there are hundreds more in state court
superiorcourt.maricopa.gov/docket/civilcourtcases/.


you fellows do know that when the jail lost accreditdation back in 08 and tried to reapply the tried to keep joe outa it and he sued  so we now have the taxpayers paying for both sides of a suit pitting the county gov against joe's gov.   joe lost in april when the case was tossed. even is arizona his fanbois dwindle

2000 66 percent
2004 56 percent
2008 55 percent 
while his opposition goes from 26 to 45 percent


and heres a hoot
http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/the_maricopa_courthouse_war/

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

I dunno, sounds like you have a double-standard for LEO thuggishness.  One for folks who use it almost exclusively on Americans and another for those who bring it on non-Americans who are criminals by their very presence on American soil

theres an irony to that that you might miss at first blush

was the paraplegic whose neck his boys broke while grinning at the camera that they knew  was filming an illegal?  no wait  he was being booked for 1 gram of pot, a citizen and he was being "chaired" because the fine young men joe is in charge of didn't wanna hear about him needing a catheter.  no thugs there. 

then theres the judge ruling in feb of this year that king joe abused his power to target elected officials who dared to disagree with him
joe did get one conviction in that circus  one woman indicted on 25 felonies pled guilty to giving her daughter a misdemeanor  and shes got a variety of abuse of power mailicious prosecution etc cases pending against joe  there is 56 mill pending in claims from the 3 judges and the county supervisors joe tried to get indicted by the grand jury using his pet former county attorney .   the grand jury not only refused but they took the rare course of saying the investigation should end


whats your view on the deputy who snatched the papers off the defense attorneys table behind her back in open court?  then handed it off to another deputy to have a copy made? how did you ala carte the constitution for that one?  then when the fine young man got gigged they stage a walkout of court security?  whose outa control here?

[TommyGunn]

   I can't believe this thread has devolved into a "who's LEO department is the most evilest" contest. 

[roo_ster]

CSD:

Do you even read others' responses? 

I showed you a source that has 5000 suits, most of which deal with jailbird complaints about conditions (given a random sampling of 6 or seven of the first ones presented), that is inclusive of your 2100.  I included a link to the heaviest-hitting of them all, which is pretty pathetic.  And you prattle on about "2100," as if it is a symbol to ward off the evil eye.

Arpaio may be the nastiest, most brutish sheriff in these 50 states, but you have shown little curiosity about the merit/depth of of any of those suits or in how Arpaio performs relative to other sheriffs in big metro areas.

When pressed, you flop around and dredge up other accusations rather than respond to the questions raised.  There may be more merit to the thousands of suits, relative to the weak tea i saw and relative to other major metro sheriffs depts, but you, the Arpaoi Avenger, have shown bupkis.  My queries took all of 5-10 minutes.  Someone as passionate as yourself ought to show a little more work ethic and willingness to examine the record relative to other metro ares.

Meh, your credibility on this issue is shot, work less than a used kleenex.

[cassandra and sara's daddy]

so if i understand you right the fact that joes got 50 times more suits filed against him than the 4 largest jail systems combined is ok?  its cause "folk are picking at him!"?

you got me i hadn't looked at your links but when i did i found out about the blind guy serving time for shop lifting who died after being found with a broken neck, ruptured intestines, broken toes, and severe internal injuries

and joes reply was he fell outa bed?
i expected more reaction from the folk who go ballistic when a drug dealers pitbull gets shot