Author Topic: Air raid!  (Read 52167 times)

Nitrogen

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Re: Air raid!
« Reply #75 on: December 30, 2008, 03:35:58 PM »
Where the heck is ShootinStudent?  I have been waiting to hear how this is all Israel's fault, for daring to be in the path of these missiles that these peace loving people are shooting into what should be open desert for fun!
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erictank

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Re: Air raid!
« Reply #76 on: December 30, 2008, 10:22:09 PM »
Yes, they were asking for truce while still firing Grads, now.

Did Israel finally realize that their "truce" is offered with one hand out and a knife hidden in the other, and is just an excuse to reload?

What do you mean, "hidden"?

Hawkmoon

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Re: Air raid!
« Reply #77 on: December 30, 2008, 11:58:53 PM »
On the one hand, I should probably do my family a favor and get on the next flight to Germany, but on the other hand, it would feel deeply wrong to leave him alone in this danger.

I know that the chance of something really happening to us is slim, but I am only human and thus commit the statistic fallacy of misjudging the importance of seldom events.

So take him with you. Except he won't want to leave his parents in harm's way.

"... the statistic fallacy of misjudging the importance of seldom events."? Listen up ... it doesn't make the slightest difference what the statistical probability is (or "was"), if a rocket or mortar lands in your bunker/bedroom, it is rather difficult to misjudge the importance of the event.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Air raid!
« Reply #78 on: December 31, 2008, 12:48:21 AM »
So take him with you. Except he won't want to leave his parents in harm's way.

"... the statistic fallacy of misjudging the importance of seldom events."? Listen up ... it doesn't make the slightest difference what the statistical probability is (or "was"), if a rocket or mortar lands in your bunker/bedroom, it is rather difficult to misjudge the importance of the event.

So get the relatives to go on a vacation.

Look. If that crap was going on where I live, my country trusts me enough to let me have firearms, the ability to defend home and homeland, so I'd feel obligated to repay that trust by standing by to defend and put down attackers if the authorities were overwhelmed. I have stuff that could put holes through light armor, and it's legal.

But they don't trust you to have any firearms. So you have no obligation. Take a vacation.

MicroBalrog

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Re: Air raid!
« Reply #79 on: December 31, 2008, 12:52:52 AM »


"... the statistic fallacy of misjudging the importance of seldom events."? Listen up ... it doesn't make the slightest difference what the statistical probability is (or "was"), if a rocket or mortar lands in your bunker/bedroom, it is rather difficult to misjudge the importance of the event.

2swap is next to me and asks what do you do to prepare against an alligator assault.
Just one alligator gnawing on your leg is certainly enough.

As of my view, if 2swap feels she should leave, I will not take it personally in any way ,shape, or form, and I will understand it. However, it is my view that though the rockets are obviously quite a disturbing event, they're probably less dangerous than the local traffic.
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Azrael256

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Re: Air raid!
« Reply #80 on: December 31, 2008, 12:53:47 AM »
Quote
In other words, if you see a rocket launch, paint the launch point with a laser, and a Hellfire from an orbiting drone nails it in seconds. Something on the order of that.

I think that's too expensive, and somebody might get hurt watching for rockets and painting targets.  And I'd be worried that somebody would figure out how to shoot down a drone.

My solution: Get Raytheon and General Dynamics in a conference call.  Order up an automated Firefinder/MLRS combo.  A rocket launches, the radar backtracks it, a siren sounds to get any bystanders out of the backblast area, and the terrorist launch site eats a truckload of HE.  I would be surprised if such a system wasn't already in inventory, so they'd just have to re-paint it and fedex it to Ashod.

Next, link multiple launchers.  After the fifth or so terrorist shot, two launchers unload simultaneously.  The tenth terrorist?  Four launchers.

Link up Paladins.  Link up all the missile boats that aren't having to scrape idiot activist guts off the paint.  Hook the SLBM systems up if you want.  Generally make it clear that counter battery fire will be incoming before the iranian-made, syrian-smuggled bottle rocket disappears from view, and the IDF will neither know nor care that it happened until some unlucky private has to lug reloads to the launcher.

Manedwolf

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Re: Air raid!
« Reply #81 on: December 31, 2008, 12:56:00 AM »
I think that's too expensive, and somebody might get hurt watching for rockets and painting targets.  And I'd be worried that somebody would figure out how to shoot down a drone.

My solution: Get Raytheon and General Dynamics in a conference call.  Order up an automated Firefinder/MLRS combo.  A rocket launches, the radar backtracks it, a siren sounds to get any bystanders out of the backblast area, and the terrorist launch site eats a truckload of HE.  I would be surprised if such a system wasn't already in inventory, so they'd just have to re-paint it and fedex it to Ashod.

Next, link multiple launchers.  After the fifth or so terrorist shot, two launchers unload simultaneously.  The tenth terrorist?  Four launchers.

Link up Paladins.  Link up all the missile boats that aren't having to scrape idiot activist guts off the paint.  Hook the SLBM systems up if you want.  Generally make it clear that counter battery fire will be incoming before the iranian-made, syrian-smuggled bottle rocket disappears from view, and the IDF will neither know nor care that it happened until some unlucky private has to lug reloads to the launcher.

If it was an enemy with any respect for life, that would work, but they want to get a clear view of the launch site before hitting it.

Hamas likes to put them on top of occupied schools full of children as human shields.

Azrael256

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Re: Air raid!
« Reply #82 on: December 31, 2008, 01:06:33 AM »
Quote
Hamas likes to put them on top of occupied schools full of children as human shields.
  And we firebombed Dresden and vaporized two Japanese cities because our enemies had no respect for human lives.  Sometimes the good guys have to resort to horrible things to stop the carnage right now.

If I could think of a quick and easy way to euthanize hamas, I'd be all for it.  It sucks all around, but they have to get the point across somehow.

MicroBalrog

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Re: Air raid!
« Reply #83 on: December 31, 2008, 01:06:45 AM »
Ladies and gents:

http://www.youtube.com/user/idfnadesk

The IDF Youtube channel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTBAr7tq4rc

A Hamas government office going up.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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MicroBalrog

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Re: Air raid!
« Reply #84 on: December 31, 2008, 03:50:16 AM »
Just heard another one drop. No idea yet of casualties, and certainly not where. I have heard detailed rumors about the location of the previous rocket's drop, but for obvious reasons I will not publish that in an open forum.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

"...tradition and custom becomes intertwined and are a strong coercion which directs the society upon fixed lines, and strangles liberty. " ~ William Graham Sumner

MicroBalrog

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Re: Air raid!
« Reply #85 on: January 01, 2009, 11:47:35 AM »
People are being weird. Some very silly, some very kind. There are some people who refuse to come out of bomb shelters, others who left the city entirely.

Families in the North are hosting Southerners for free. Multiple companies are offering discounts and benefits for Southerners.At least  one bodybuilding chain has offered all Southerners free access to its facilities all across the country, and another one - to the one in Ashdod  that's also a bomb shelter.

This is a replay of Lebanon II, where people offered shelter and discounts of various sorts for people fleeing the North. Many of them were hosted by charitable people in Ashdod, and now we're seeing the reverse.

Some private parties (political and otherwise) are funding billboards voicing their support of the armed forces and the people in the South.

[I mean the terms 'South' and 'North' as they are meant in Israel, of course]
« Last Edit: January 01, 2009, 11:57:29 AM by MicroBalrog »
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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Tallpine

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Re: Air raid!
« Reply #86 on: January 01, 2009, 12:43:29 PM »
The question is, which one of us is in greater danger right now ???

http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=17094.0

You all, with a small random chance of being hit by a missle, or us with a small chance of the entire region being buried under billions of tons of ash ...?   =|
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Manedwolf

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Re: Air raid!
« Reply #87 on: January 01, 2009, 12:45:11 PM »
The question is, which one of us is in greater danger right now ???

http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=17094.0

You all, with a small random chance of being hit by a missle, or us with a small chance of the entire region being buried under billions of tons of ash ...?   =|

I don't personally think it's going to blow, or the rest of the park would be showing activity around the rim, too. I do think there will be an energetic event, though.

AJ Dual

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Re: Air raid!
« Reply #88 on: January 01, 2009, 12:53:31 PM »
I don't personally think it's going to blow, or the rest of the park would be showing activity around the rim, too. I do think there will be an energetic event, though.

Odds are in favor of a smaller "normal" volcanic event. However, the Yellowstone hotspot is too big to be vented or get any real relief from the pressure and vast energy in that magma chamber by smaller events.

And there's always the chance that the seismic activity from one small eruption can weaken the crust and faults over the entire chamber and the eruption could get successively bigger. Still a long-shot.

However, I wonder how you calculate the person-odds of such a thing.

It's like the airline industry comparing itself to travel-miles vs. fatalities, where they beat cars by a factor of ten or whatever...
However you compare the airlines to cars in person-hours, it's only a factor of two safer, etc.

I think Micro is right that traffic fatalities are probably comparable to the missile attacks for now. However, traffic can be avoided, if you're willing to sit at home. Whereas with the missiles, sitting at home, or moving about, probably makes no difference as long as you're not moving out of the average impact area.
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Manedwolf

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Re: Air raid!
« Reply #89 on: January 01, 2009, 12:58:44 PM »
Odds are in favor of a smaller "normal" volcanic event. However, the Yellowstone hotspot is too big to be vented or get any real relief from the pressure and vast energy in that magma chamber by smaller events.

And there's always the chance that the seismic activity from one small eruption can weaken the crust and faults over the entire chamber and the eruption could get successively bigger. Still a long-shot.

However, I wonder how you calculate the person-odds of such a thing.

It's like the airline industry comparing itself to travel-miles vs. fatalities, where they beat cars by a factor of ten or whatever...
However you compare the airlines to cars in person-hours, it's only a factor of two safer, etc.

I think Micro is right that traffic fatalities are probably comparable to the missile attacks for now. However, traffic can be avoided, if you're willing to sit at home. Whereas with the missiles, sitting at home, or moving about, probably makes no difference as long as you're not moving out of the average impact area.

Mary Bay was created by a hydrothermal explosion. I'd put the odds on that sort of thing, which would be a "sucks to be on top of it" event and a stratospheric plume of steam. Extremely hot steam.

Scout26

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Re: Air raid!
« Reply #90 on: January 01, 2009, 03:49:30 PM »
Congrats Micro, your town made the Trib......

Quote
'Now we are in the line of fire'
Hamas strikes deep as Israel presses its campaign in Gaza

By Joel Greenberg | Tribune correspondent
1:28 AM CST, December 31, 2008
ASHDOD, Israel — As hundreds of mourners walked back from the fresh grave of Irit Sheetrit, buried here Tuesday after she was killed in a Palestinian rocket strike from Gaza, a loudspeaker warning urged the crowd to disperse.

It was a precaution in case of another rocket attack.

This port city of 200,000 some 20 miles from the Gaza Strip found itself overnight on the front line after a rocket landed in a downtown park, killing Sheetrit as she took cover in a bus shelter. She was one of three Israelis killed in rocket and mortar strikes from Gaza on Monday.

The Israeli offensive against Hamas in Gaza, which has killed more than 380 Palestinians and wounded hundreds more, has also shown that more than half a million people in southern Israel are in rocket range, with Gaza militants striking deeper into the country than ever before.

On Tuesday a rocket reached Beersheba, 28 miles from the Gaza border, slamming into an empty kindergarten.

In Ashdod, people were absorbing the new reality.

"Now we are in the line of fire," said Brigitte Dukhan, a friend of Sheetrit, as she lingered in the cemetery after the funeral. "We wanted to believe that it wouldn't reach us."

At the bus shelter, which was peppered with shrapnel, someone had placed flowers and candles on the bench where Sheetrit, a 39-year-old mother of four, was mortally wounded as she huddled with her sister as a warning siren went off.

The two women had gotten out of a car to take cover when the warning sounded, but the rocket, packed with ball-bearings to inflict greater injury, exploded less than 50 feet behind them.

Although the Gaza offensive has made their city a more dangerous place, people in Ashdod voiced strong support for the operation, launched after a truce expired and militants stepped up rocket fire at Israeli border communities.

"The army should go in, hit hard and clean the place out, and that will bring calm for a few years," said Aryeh Barda, who had come to see where the rocket had landed. "Hamas brought it upon themselves. They don't care about their own people."

Eli Benita said that in his view, "Arabs only understand force," but he added that he was upset by news reports about five Palestinian sisters who died Sunday night in the Israeli assault.

The girls, aged 4 to 17, were killed as they slept when an Israeli missile strike on a mosque in the Jabaliya refugee camp caused a wall to collapse on their asbestos-roofed home. The Israeli army said that the mosque was a meeting place for Hamas activists and that a group of gunmen were inside when the structure was hit.

The intense Israeli airstrikes on targets in densely populated areas have caused dozens of civilian deaths in Gaza. Ten miles north in Ashkelon, an Israeli city by the sea that has also come into Palestinian rocket range, Moshe Elkayam, a municipal worker, said his community faced a similar threat.

"If one of those rockets would hit a school full of children, many could be killed," he said. "For years they have been firing at towns here, day and night. No country in the world could accept that."

Traffic was light in Ashkelon, and a shopping mall was closed as many people stayed home because of the continuing rocket threat.

Schools remained closed, and Elkayam said he was keeping his two youngest children in a bomb shelter, which he had outfitted with a TV and DVD player to keep them occupied. At night, he said, the whole family slept in the shelter.

The hardship is a far cry from conditions in Gaza, where round-the-clock Israeli bombardments have caused extensive destruction and where residents are coping with cutoffs of power and dwindling fuel supplies. Yet life for many Israelis living in cities once considered distant from the fighting is now fraught with a new anxiety.

Out walking his dog on an Ashkelon street, Yoel Levy said it would be a quick stroll and he would keep his eyes open for cover in case a siren went off. In Ashkelon there are usually 30 seconds to find shelter before the rockets land. In Ashdod there are 45.

What did Levy think of the Gaza offensive?

"What interests me is the bottom line," he said. "We want this to end, with quiet for us and for them." (Scout's comment: Until the Pali's get this, it will not end.)

Overhead, Israeli jets streaked south, toward another bombing run in Gaza. Levy hurried off with his dog, and as the sun lowered over the Mediterranean, a distant siren sounded, followed by a muffled boom. Somewhere, another rocket had landed.

Surprisingly good and not the least bit "Those Poor benighted Pali's"....
Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants won't help.


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MicroBalrog

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Re: Air raid!
« Reply #91 on: January 01, 2009, 04:32:06 PM »
I've met a former FATAH fighter once. He made FAR more sense to me than the average leftohippie.
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Phyphor

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Re: Air raid!
« Reply #92 on: January 01, 2009, 04:41:46 PM »
Is it wrong to hope for what I'm hoping for?



Are you hoping for a Harpoon or 2 to 'accidently' get lit off, and happen to be pointed at their ship, by any chance?


'Coz so am I.  =D
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Phyphor

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Re: Air raid!
« Reply #93 on: January 01, 2009, 04:47:44 PM »
According to the government, they may have some Iranian Fajr-3 missiles in stock, too.

It's a pity you guys don't have that counter-battery radar system installed..... backtrace the inbound rockets and just pound the living *expletive deleted*it out of the point of origin with artillery.  If they whine about civilian casualties, too bad. 

Tell 'em "Stop killing our civvies and we'll stop killing yours. "

"You know what's messed-up about taxes?
You don't even pay taxes. They take tax.
You get your check, money gone.
That ain't a payment, that's a jack." - Chris Rock "Bigger and Blacker"
He slapped his rifle. "This is one of the best arguments for peace there is. Nobody wants to shoot if somebody is going to shoot back. " Callaghen, Callaghen, Louis La'mour

Boomhauer

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Re: Air raid!
« Reply #94 on: January 01, 2009, 06:17:23 PM »
Are you hoping for a Harpoon or 2 to 'accidently' get lit off, and happen to be pointed at their ship, by any chance?


'Coz so am I.  =D

Yep...
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Air raid!
« Reply #95 on: January 03, 2009, 04:34:13 AM »
3 more rockets just fell here.

Two nearby, one elsewhere. Family chased us down into the stairway, but remained upstairs themselves. 2swap comports herself admirably under fire.
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RocketMan

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Re: Air raid!
« Reply #96 on: January 03, 2009, 05:07:08 AM »
Keep hanging in there, Micro and 2swap.  Keep your heads down.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Air raid!
« Reply #97 on: January 03, 2009, 05:16:33 AM »
The news say only two rockets hit near us. Maybe I misheard it. One fell in a kibbutz dining hall near our town (none injured), and one hit a house in Ashdod. 3 people lightly injured.
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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MicroBalrog

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Re: Air raid!
« Reply #98 on: January 03, 2009, 12:24:37 PM »
Two more rockets just fell here. The neighbor downstairs - the House Comittee lady - is even now ranting at my Mom for not going down to the bomb shelter .
Destroy The Enemy in Hand-to-Hand Combat.

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grampster

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Re: Air raid!
« Reply #99 on: January 03, 2009, 01:14:51 PM »
About 2 hours ago, a radio report said that Israeli tanks and infantry were on the move into Gaza.
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