Anyone think we should have a 2-3 year mandatory draft for 18y/os?

[Firethorn]

Man, looks like if you take the number of sides on this threat are greater than the number of posters.

Personally, I'd like to see some sort of way to destroy the professional bureaucracy.  After thinking about it, requiring federal service in order to vote is a bad idea.  Bureaucrats already have too much power.

I like the social security/medicare idea though.

Felonious Fig, I guess it's the idea that many of these young adults will end up working on less economical jobs.  They won't be generating wealth like many are doing now.  Why interupt their training, which the majority DO complete?  Why delay them in college, when, while there's still a failure rate, the majority do graduate.  

By letting them choose when, if they choose to do so, to serve, you'll be receiving skilled workers, later in life, not a glut of teenagers.

[Iain]

Been wondering. Is it a 'post-Vietnam' generation of parents, i.e those that were too young to go but have raised kids since, the children of the 1960's, that are in favour of this sort of idea? Don't specifically mean those in favour of military service, but those in favour of all types of compulsory service.

[Guest]

I'm opposed to it.

I'll admit, I'd like to see it become an expectation we set for our kids to serve their country and citizens, but not as a mandate from the government.

[Firethorn]

You know, I'm kinda interested in age groups here.  I wonder if the idea of mandatory service is associated with age.  Also, whether you live in/grew up in a larger city, or smaller town/rural setting?

I'm 28, opposed to mandatory service, though I think that a voluntary service with some perks might be a good idea.  Born and raised in the midwest, grew up for the teenage years in Lincoln, NE.

[brimic]

Another thought- I have several friends who joined different branches of the military AFTER or DURING their college years, not before. Three of them are serving as officers right now in Iraq. They did it and made a career out of it because they wanted to and like their jobs and liked the type of people that they were working with, not because someone held a gun to their head and told them to get on a train or bus to the nearest government processing station.  To me it seems like a much better idea to let people find their own way in life than force people to choose some sort of goobermint service.

[Winston Smith]

The most vocal against this concept of youth internships, CRYING waaaah "slavery" and "you're not the boss of me",
are the children.
----
 Kids SCREAM for their rights, but quickly leave the room when responsibility comes due.
Grow up, boys & girls.  SO self-centered to think you are "owed" all these freedoms.

This is definitely a generalization, a prejudgement, and almost an ad hominem attack.

To me it seems like a much better idea to let people find their own way in life than force people to choose some sort of goobermint service.

You mean some further government service, as I give over 1/3rd of the fruits of my labor to the government. And I work two jobs. Add those two to high school and you're facing 55 hour weeks.

Tell me how I could benefit from military or government service.

You don't know me.

You don't know what's best for me.

I have no right to confiscate more of your money in taxes so my high school could have some goddamn ventilation, so you certainly have no right to tell me that I have to go fight your foreign wars/build your bridges/whatever else the .gov thinks is best.

I'll say it again: Presuming you know what's best for other people (especially millions of people you've never met) is the worst kind of political arrogance, and acting on those presumptions to deprive people of their liberty is fascism.


EDIT:

And I think people missed this, and should take a much closer look at it:

natedog said:

What is the purpose of the military?

Hint: It isn't a daycare center or dicipline school.

[Bemidjiblade]

No matter how positive your personal experiences in the military, the fact remains that part of that positive experience was your CHOICE to serve your country and the things that followed that choice.  Now, whether or not in time of war a draft is used is entirely different than a peacetime socialist system that would rob us of the very freedoms those volunteer military personell are risking and giving their lives to defend.

Particularly on a board supposedly dedicated to freedom this is just depressing.  If we are only in favor of the freedoms we desire, and support enslavement as we see beneficial,then we are devoid of any standing, and should go find nice MILITANT communist and socialist panels to participate in, since apparently it's owning guns and not freedom that everyone cares about.

*fumes*

[HForrest]

The most vocal against this concept of youth internships, CRYING waaaah "slavery" and "you're not the boss of me", are the children.

Yes, because it is slavery, and you, in fact, are not the boss of me.

[Winston Smith]

No matter how positive your personal experiences in the military, the fact remains that part of that positive experience was your CHOICE to serve your country and the things that followed that choice..

I'm with you, but some of these people are old enough to have been drafted.

That doesn't really matter though, even though wrong was done to them, it shouldn't be repeated. And if they don't believe it really harmed them, well, that's either making lemonade out of lemons or Stockholm Syndrome.

[jefnvk]

You cant possibly be equating the militia with service in a government commanded military. The militia is a body of citizens ENTIRELY INDEPENDANT from government authority, thats the entire point.

And if you look at my proposal, a militia is pretty much what I reccomend.  But, there were still laws in place to ensure people were doing what they needed to.

[Alex45ACP]

It's depressing how many of you support this.  Forcing someone into battle at gunpoint is a human rights violation no matter who's holding the gun.

[Firethorn]

I think more good can come from fixing our highschools(well, the lower ones too) than essentially extending them another two years.

[Warren]

How about one of the perks for those men sent off to fight is that they get have sex with  women who are drafted into consort brigades?

[Norton]

Maybe we should rethink Oleg's statement:

>>I think APS has stayed civil enough that we can start inviting people to it from ooutside.<<

[Firethorn]

Why should we?  We can disagree with each other all day long, but I'll note that there's a remarkable lack of:
Profanity, name calling, personal attacks, flamewars, horrible spelling/grammer, etc.

[richyoung]

I find it funny that people keep bringing up that the founding fathers would have never done such a thing, when in another argument, we will immediately bring up that at one point, everyone was forced to be in the militia.  And we will use that as a good example of why the 2A exists.  

Now that the idea comes up, though, it seems that many don't much care for the idea.

What do you mean, "at one point"?  You don't realize that almost all of us are officially in the militia, according to federal law?

[jefnvk]

Exactly, rich.  My point was, that even though it was supposed to be completely seperate from the gov't, there were/are still laws in place forcing you into it.

IMHO, that is pretty much the same thing as what was proposed.

[Guest]

Yes a 2-year period of brainwashing would definatly brighten the future of our nation. It isnt an accident that virtually every fundamentally evil nation in history has had compulsory government service. It sounds like we are favoring the Soviet model that would allow us to send our lower classes into the trenches and our rich kids into government offices for grooming, excellent idea.

It certainly isnt a violation of the concept of a free society. Clearly its OK that the people are the property of the government, and OBVIOUSLY the government can be fully trusted with such a task.

Haha!

[Guest]

Just for the record: enslaving people, even temporarily, even for a good cause, isn't ethical. In fact, trying to implement it should be a capital crime.

Thank you; I agree.

MR (age, 62)

[Guest]

I've noted the arguments of those against some form of national service (not necessarily military, as I said earlier), but I find them unconvincing.  ...blah, blah, blah....

Sir, you are way off base. It is the same thing for a state to draft workers as it would be for you to force your neighbor to mow your lawn as part of a "neighborhood beautification plan".

 Please rethink your stand on this issue. I can't imagine you telling your congregation that it is O.K. to force people to do things for the common good...or for the good of a political entity. If you do, it merely means that your church and the state use the same ethical guidelines - none.

[...has left the building.]

It is disgusting how many people are in favor of any form of involutary servitude.

Help me out here...how is getting my degree, having an excellent job, paying high taxes, giving to charity, buying a high amount goods and services, establishing a solid household, et cetera NOT contributing to society?

[jefnvk]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how this militia system we always tout as the ideal military is anything but what was proposed.

[Jamisjockey]

No.  We've proven that our volunteer Military is a much better fighting force than a conscript army.  They should have better pay, and better benefits.

[Guest]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how this militia system we always tout as the ideal military is anything but what was proposed.

Whats being proposed is a draft into a state run standing army. That has absolutely no resemblance to the militia.

In fact, a standing draft would subvert the militia because its members would be forced to serve in a state-run army, rather than in the citizen run militia. One of the purposes of the militia is to provide a check on the state, what kind of check is it when the entire body of men in the militia belong to that very same state? The militia HAS to be completely independant of government control, that is the entire point.

[jefnvk]

OK, yeah, I worded that bad.  The question was more for those saying any involuntary servitude is bad.  I'm not so hot on the idea of peace corp volunteers, or military, or whatever else was originally proposed.  My idea was more of a militia sytem.

Even still, though, a militia system is going to have to force people to join.