Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Monkeyleg on April 10, 2017, 12:10:19 AM
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A few weeks back, on another forum, I posted about a documentary I saw on Nazi brothels. After the invasion of Paris, the Germans found that one in five soldiers were getting STD's that were sidelining them for weeks. The solution was typically German. They set up their own brothels in combat areas, and captured local women to work them. Officers inspected the women to assure they were desireable, and doctors frequently inspected them for disease. Most women could only take this for a year or so. When they no longer could, they were shot.
The response to my post was the typical "our guys raped women, too". I had to do a little research. I found that our WWII troops raped an estimated 14,000 women. 700 of the guilty soldiers were tried.
By point of comparison, it's estimated that the Russians raped 2,000,000 German women when they invaded Germany. I didn't find any mention of trials. Roughly one-fifth of the raped German women committed suicide.
I didn't find any numbers for rapes by Germans, but my guess is that the numbers were high.
It's remarkable to me how moral our troops have been in wartime, and how we have behaved as a country. We've fought and gone home, without seizing territory. Our troops have fought viciously, but with few atrocities. Just another example of America being special.
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By point of comparison, it's estimated that the Russians raped 2,000,000 German women when they invaded Germany. I didn't find any mention of trials.
That's because Joseph Stalin himself said it was just retribution against Germany for what they did to the Soviet Union - rape of German women was officially endorsed by Soviet leadership.
Ask Korea, China, and the Philippines about how the Japanese treated women in occupied areas.
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Ask Korea, China, and the Philippines about how the Japanese treated women in occupied areas.
Oh, that I know.
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Ah, the moral equivalency argument.
I love those people....
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Sources?
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There is no question that Americans have committed atrocities in combat theatre. War is a fundamentally dehumanizing experience. That said, as Monkeyleg said--the absolute numbers seem to be low, there is no official sanction for such in the US armed forces historically, and there is no cultural allowance for such back home.
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I heard somewhere that the mass rape by Russians in Germany either didn't happen or was exaggerated. I can't remember where I saw that.
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I heard somewhere that the mass rape by Russians in Germany either didn't happen or was exaggerated. I can't remember where I saw that.
Same "documents" that claim the holocaust never happened?
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Sources?
I searched for this several weeks ago, and don't have the sites in my browsers history now. It's on the 'net. Find it yourself. ;)
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I heard somewhere that the mass rape by Russians in Germany either didn't happen or was exaggerated. I can't remember where I saw that.
I've never read one official source that said so. Even official Russian sources were "tough cookies". Even well after the invasion when Eastern Germany was commie, the official German communist party complained that Russian troops were still acting like conquerers and it was not helping the local population connect with other commies. They were also told that essentially it was retribution or reparations, take your pick.
Honestly, there's a whole lot more holocaust deniers than there are communist atrocity deniers. Though most people care less about the communist atrocities. Weird how that works.
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I heard somewhere that the mass rape by Russians in Germany either didn't happen or was exaggerated. I can't remember where I saw that.
Pravda?
I'm reading Bill O'Reilly's book Killing Patton now, and he goes into some depth on the behavior of Soviet troops invading Germany - truly savage and barbaric. Here are a few snippets from his footnotes.
"People should understand it if a soldier who has crossed thosands of kilometers of blood and death has fun with a woman."
"In the German city of Dresden, the Russians will gang-rape women in the streets, forcing husbands and fathers to watch. Afterward, the men will be shot. The Russians will claim the rapes were retribution for the atrocities committed during the German invasion of Russia, which does not explain the estimated one hundred thousand rapse in Austria, two hundred thousand in Hungary, and tens of thousands of others in Bulgaria, Poland and Czechoslovakia. To this day the Putin government in Russia denies that the Russian army committed mass rape, but the evidence contained in various eyewitness accounts is overwhelming."
The main take away is that the USA didn't excuse - much less endorse - rape of women by GIs; we prosecuted them.
This is vastly different from German, Soviet, and Japanese practice.
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I've never read one official source that said so. Even official Russian sources were "tough cookies". Even well after the invasion when Eastern Germany was commie, the official German communist party complained that Russian troops were still acting like conquerers and it was not helping the local population connect with other commies. They were also told that essentially it was retribution or reparations, take your pick.
Honestly, there's a whole lot more holocaust deniers than there are communist atrocity deniers. Though most people care less about the communist atrocities. Weird how that works.
If the Russians had had snappy uniforms like the germans and peaked caps they might have their own fanbois.
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Same "documents" that claim the holocaust never happened?
Yeah, that is it!
I don't remember where I saw it. It was probably a comment somewhere, not a real source. I thought one of you might have seen something more official. Apparently not.
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The response to my post was the typical "our guys raped women, too". I had to do a little research. I found that our WWII troops raped an estimated 14,000 women. 700 of the guilty soldiers were tried.
That's actually an excellent rate, when you think about it.
https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system
Claims that only 11 out of 1000 rapes will result in charges pressed. By those statistics, we'd be looking at only 154 soldiers going to trial.
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That's actually an excellent rate, when you think about it.
https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system
Claims that only 11 out of 1000 rapes will result in charges pressed. By those statistics, we'd be looking at only 154 soldiers going to trial.
I wonder how many of those that were not prosecuted were KIA before legal proceedings could begin.
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It's remarkable to me how moral our troops have been in wartime, and how we have behaved as a country. We've fought and gone home, without seizing territory. Our troops have fought viciously, but with few atrocities. Just another example of America being special.
Not all that remarkable, if you ask me.
It's a lot easier to be moral when the guys you are fighting haven't actually burned down your house and killed the entirety of your family in some nasty ways. It's also a bit easier to be moral if you know that you are going to be treated as a human in the event of capture.
In a nutshell, it was a lot less personal and visceral for Americans.
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Not all that remarkable, if you ask me.
It's a lot easier to be moral when the guys you are fighting haven't actually burned down your house and killed the entirety of your family in some nasty ways. It's also a bit easier to be moral if you know that you are going to be treated as a human in the event of capture.
In a nutshell, it was a lot less personal and visceral for Americans.
Do you or anyone else here have any knowledge of how Union or Confederate troops behaved, or how the troops of the Continental Army behaved?
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“History is always written by the winners. When two cultures clash, the loser is obliterated, and the winner writes the history books-books which glorify their own cause and disparage the conquered foe. As Napoleon once said, 'What is history, but a fable agreed upon?”