Author Topic: Herniated Disc Treatment  (Read 3254 times)

xavier fremboe

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Herniated Disc Treatment
« on: July 03, 2008, 07:54:10 AM »
Went to the Dr. yesterday to see about my back pain.  She said I had classic symptoms for a herniated disc or bone spur pressing on my sciatic nerve.  I need to schedule an x-ray/MRI, but if it shows either of those two, She's saying the only treatments are:

1.  Surgery.
2.  An epidural of some sort.

Anyone have any experience with these or any other treatments?
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Grandpa Shooter

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Re: Herniated Disc Treatment
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2008, 08:32:01 AM »
My hired hand has been undergoing shots in the back for his back pain and swears by it.  Apparently the shots kill the nerves in the area so he doesn't feel any pain.  Downside is that the nerves will grow back in a year or so.

Tallpine

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Re: Herniated Disc Treatment
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2008, 08:44:13 AM »
Have you tried a chiropractor ?
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

xavier fremboe

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Re: Herniated Disc Treatment
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2008, 11:33:44 AM »
Have you tried a chiropractor ?
I did, about two weeks ago when this particular round started.  First time I'd ever been.  I'm afraid of more damage.  Not sure how realistic that fear is.
If the bandersnatch seems even mildly frumious, best to shun it.  Really. http://www.cctplastics.com

Ex-MA Hole

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Re: Herniated Disc Treatment
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2008, 12:13:10 PM »
Yes.

I tore L4/L5 a few years back from picking up a lawn tractor.  Twice.  I'm not that bright.

I tried Chrio, PT (two rounds), massage, pills, nothing...

The three cortisone shots made the pain bearable, then the finding pills that worked "solved" the problem.

I am not, nor do I ever expect to be 100%, but I am about as good as I expect to be.

As far as the Cortisone shots, it really is far scarier than it sounds.  They really, IMO, are not that bad.

The bad part comes afterward.  They tell you that you will feel great in a day or so, but to do nothing for a few days.  Listen to them.  I repeat, listen to them.  I repeat, listen to them.  I repeat, listen to them.  I repeat, listen to them.

Get the point?

With my first shot I popped a couple of Xanax, had the shot, went home and slept.  I woke up and felt AWESOME.  No pain.

What did I do?  Picked up my Daughter and played with her.  Bent over the sink and did the dishes.  Started the lawn mower and mowed a bit.  I felt awesome.

Until the next morning, then the gates of hell relocated to my back.  I could not feel my feet, legs, testicular area, waist, nothing.

The pain was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO intense.

I called the Doctor, they laughed, told to listen next time and to stay down.

No problems with shots two and three.
One day at a time.

Tallpine

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Re: Herniated Disc Treatment
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2008, 01:35:31 PM »
Have you tried a chiropractor ?
I did, about two weeks ago when this particular round started.  First time I'd ever been.  I'm afraid of more damage.  Not sure how realistic that fear is.

I'd be more afraid of surgery, myself   shocked

Find a good one, preferably a Palmer graduate.  Make sure he/she takes x-rays.  Depending on the degeneration, they may be able to either reverse or ameliorate the damage.

My wife just started going because both arms were going numb.  I haven't been to a chiropractor in years, but as soon as we get her stuff paid for, I should see what he can do with my lower back.
Freedom is a heavy load, a great and strange burden for the spirit to undertake. It is not easy. It is not a gift given, but a choice made, and the choice may be a hard one. The road goes upward toward the light; but the laden traveller may never reach the end of it.  - Ursula Le Guin

xavier fremboe

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Re: Herniated Disc Treatment
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2008, 02:14:27 PM »
Yes.

I tore L4/L5 a few years back from picking up a lawn tractor.  Twice.  I'm not that bright.

Oddly enough, the one thing that I can think of that was extra heavy in the past month was my lawn tractor.  I've been tipping it back for about six years.  Can't figure out how it go so heavy...
If the bandersnatch seems even mildly frumious, best to shun it.  Really. http://www.cctplastics.com

xavier fremboe

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Re: Herniated Disc Treatment
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2008, 02:18:26 PM »
Have you tried a chiropractor ?
I did, about two weeks ago when this particular round started.  First time I'd ever been.  I'm afraid of more damage.  Not sure how realistic that fear is.

I'd be more afraid of surgery, myself   shocked

Find a good one, preferably a Palmer graduate.  Make sure he/she takes x-rays.  Depending on the degeneration, they may be able to either reverse or ameliorate the damage.

My wife just started going because both arms were going numb.  I haven't been to a chiropractor in years, but as soon as we get her stuff paid for, I should see what he can do with my lower back.
My father and grandfather are MD's, so I was indoctrinated at an early age about chiropractors.  I've talked to enough people over the years who've had good results, so I'm overcoming my reticence, but I'm worried about doing more damage.  I am probably more concerned with the surgery, as I haven't talked to anyone who said that going under the knife for this sort of thing changed their life.  Sounds like several weeks off rehab and then getting back to almost normal.
If the bandersnatch seems even mildly frumious, best to shun it.  Really. http://www.cctplastics.com

roo_ster

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Re: Herniated Disc Treatment
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2008, 05:15:36 PM »
A co-worker/buddy of mine had back surgery.

The deal was, bone spurs in his spinal column and out through his hips (or something like that) were poking into his sciatica nerves on both sides.  He hobbled around before the surgery and the surgery itslef kicked the ever-loving daylights outta him.  The back muscle spasms were especially agonizing, as the doc did not believe in cutting a single one & s t r e t c h e d them way off kilter to scrape the spurs.

Dude was on elephant-dose pain meds muscle relaxants for like a month or so. And he is no <meow>. Rather, he has the credentials of a man who has BTDT in many ways.

Thing was, he now has NO pain from the removed spurs or surgery.  He works out and takes care of himself and is just so much more happy now that he is not in constant pain.
Regards,

roo_ster

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LAK

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Re: Herniated Disc Treatment
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2008, 10:01:56 PM »
I had exactly the same thing said to me a couple of years back. Turned out to be a lower sacrial sprain; misery for about three and a half weeks, but it did go away.

My advice, based on what others have told me, is to only have surgery as a very last resort. It can be very successful, but not very often, and many turn out worse than they were before it. And once it's done, it's done.

Antibubba

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Re: Herniated Disc Treatment
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2008, 05:05:24 PM »
Back surgery should be your very last option, IMO.

I've had real relief with a chiropractor.  Try to find one who has a myofascial massage therapist working in the office.  It's a very deep tissue technique, based on the theory that injuries and improper posture cause stress to our muscles and connective tissue.  My therapist is as strong as an ox.  smiley  Whenever she's out, and I have to see someone else, they have trouble believing I want them to increase the pressure.  It's what works for me.
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cmw

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Re: Herniated Disc Treatment
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2008, 06:34:10 AM »
I'm a DC.

You have every right to be concerned about treatments making your situation worse -I would stress you apply that concern equally to all possible treatments.

I'm not going to second guess another physician over the internet; in general it sounds as if this is not an emergent situation.  Nor can I conduct an examination over the internet, so take all this as general info not advice or Dr-patient consultation.

If you have muscle weakness, distinct changes in sensation, or any change/difficulty with bowel/bladder or sexual function you should consider it an emergency and seek immediate care.  If you reported any of the previous and weren't treated very seriously, or if your examination did not involve reflexes at several spots, numerous muscle strength tests, a tuning fork, and drawing letters or numbers on your skin you MAY not have gotten a very good evaluation.

An MRI is really the only sensible advanced imaging given what you relate.  Keep in mind that modern studies show that a very large percentage of adults are walking around with notable disc herniations that are not symptomatic in any way, and that sciatic symptoms can originate at several locations unrelated to "spurs" or disc herniations.  Disc bulge on MRI does not = source of problem, there are additional neuro tests such as SSEP, EMG, and NCV.

A good chiropractor will either help you directly and fairly quickly or send you right to a neurologist or orthopedic surgeon, a poor chiropractor will help very little and not hurt you, and -unfortunately- a really bad chiropractor could certainly make you feel worse.  Your situation with MD's is about the same with the major difference being that with a bad MD you could end up with surgery you didn't need and additional problems, and poor MD's give the general idea that pain-killers = a cure when there are other options.

Fortunately for patients (and chiropractors) the decades of poor outcomes from over-enthusiastic application of surgery contrast sharply with very good results and very few problems from conservative manual care and spinal manipulation (or even just plain "wait and see").

I would suggest you consider consulting with the chiropractor with the best reputation in your area (possibly someone who has "Flexion and Distraction" equipment) and that overall you do/allow NO treatment that you are not 100% comfortable with -ultimately it is your body and you have to deal with the outcome.

Someone mentioned PT and that may be an important part of the plan -WRT overall rehab/exercises.  There are very few PT/DPT's who receive much training in joint manipulation.  Not a slam on them but a sore spot given their professional organization's recent switch from anti-manipulation to "we've always manipulated and chiro's are still quacks".  Suffice it to say that chiropractors receive more PT training than DPT's do of manipulation and I still send patients to them for rehab, and good PT's do the reverse for manipulation. 

Everybody needs to recognize their limitations: if you end up at a physician or other specialist who tells you they can do everything anyone else can, or that absolutely no other specialty is any good, you have either found the perfect Dr or may be in the wrong place.  The notable exception being the case where you are thoroughly evaluated and educated by a trusted physician, found to be in need of surgery, and then referred to an ortho who is so good they have developed a superiority complex -then you are in the right place  smiley.

Best of luck.  I'm not active online too much but will try to check back soon.

C





xavier fremboe

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Re: Herniated Disc Treatment
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2008, 08:57:02 AM »
CMW,

I really appreciate the thorough response.  Once I have the scan and know a little more about what's going on I'll post.
If the bandersnatch seems even mildly frumious, best to shun it.  Really. http://www.cctplastics.com

grislyatoms

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Re: Herniated Disc Treatment
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2008, 11:29:25 AM »
Quote
She said I had classic symptoms for a herniated disc or bone spur pressing on my sciatic nerve.

That is excruciating pain. Worst I have ever had.

My L4 and L5 disks were so shot from frequent heavy lifting that some of the material had actually ejected from one of them. 80% of one removed, close to 100% of the other.

The neurosurgeon, after examining my MRI, said that my case was one of the worst he had ever seen. I lost much of the use of my left leg, and he further said that to delay treatment might mean losing use of it permanently. Even today, it's only about 90% as strong as my right leg.

I didn't have a choice, it was surgery or be in a wheelchair. I am very pleased with the outcome, I only need aspirin on occasion for pain.

Quote
The bad part comes afterward.  They tell you that you will feel great in a day or so, but to do nothing for a few days.  Listen to them.  I repeat, listen to them.  I repeat, listen to them.  I repeat, listen to them.  I repeat, listen to them.

Sage advice. It took me about a week before I could begin to do things other than just get to the bathroom. I remember going into the garage to get something and lifting up a 10 speed bicycle. Wasn't thinking.

YEEEEOWCH!

The worst part, however, had to be the ride home from the hospital. Every little bump or sway of the car and I thought I was going to pass out.

Couldn't work for six months. Disability lawyers were all over me, trying to get me declared permanently disabled. I told every one of them to go jump in the river. grin I was only 25, and I did not want to spend the rest of my life waiting for a govt. check every two weeks.


"A son of the sea, am I" Gordon Lightfoot

Monkeyleg

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Re: Herniated Disc Treatment
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2008, 06:21:57 PM »
I'm not a doctor like cmw, so all I can do is relate my experience.

I have a badly herniated disc (#5, IRRC), plus another one up around my shoulder. I tried a chiropractor with no luck. I did physical therapy, but my back and right leg were still on fire anytime I did something.

The cortisone shot took care of the pain almost immediately. The doctor that administered the shot was very good. He used novacaine to freeze the area around the spine before doing the cortisone injection. When the cortisone hit the nerves my right leg just reflexively jerked up and felt like it was burning. The pain subsided quickly though.

The problem with the cortisone is that it doesn't fix the disc, it just makes the pain go away. I still have to be very careful about stressing my back in any way. Some relatives and neighbors just think I'm lazy, but what do they know?

It's been five years since my last injection.

If you should decide to go with the injection, be sure to eat something beforehand. I just about passed out because I hadn't eaten. While it's "just a shot," it's also invasive.

Good luck with it.

Hawkmoon

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Re: Herniated Disc Treatment
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2008, 09:44:17 PM »
Went to the Dr. yesterday to see about my back pain.  She said I had classic symptoms for a herniated disc or bone spur pressing on my sciatic nerve.  I need to schedule an x-ray/MRI, but if it shows either of those two, She's saying the only treatments are:

1.  Surgery.
2.  An epidural of some sort.

Anyone have any experience with these or any other treatments?


Before you sign on for surgery (which is irreversable), get a real diagnosis. "Herniated disc or bone spur pressing on my sciatic nerve" is another way of saying she has no idea what's wrong.Chiropractic can do wonders for a herniated disc (along with taking powdered gelatin -- no foolin'), and can't do anything to help bone spurs.

On my end, I have three herniated discs from a car accident (rear seat passenger) when I was 14. That was several decades ago. My grandparents absolutely refused to allow my parents to even consider surgery. I did the chiropractor thing twice a week for a few months. The conventional doctors said I wouldn't walk again, and certainly could never play sports. The result: In high school I played soccer, basketball, tennis, and was a high jumper on the track team. In college I wasn't good enough to make the tennis team, but I stayed with the soccer for all four years, basketball for one year, and the high jumping for three. And I played a bit of lacrosse.

If I overdo it and pick up something too heavy I occasionally have a problem. Usually, one or two visits to the chiropractor will take care of it, then I don't see him for three to six months -- until I get careless again.

When I was in graduate school my then significant other (who later became my wife, but this was before she accepted my proposals) had a persistent back problem. She finally checked into the university hospital and the neurosurgeon ran one of those tests where they inject the spine with radioactive dye and then do a scan. The procedure knocked her out for a week, but the tests showed NOTHING. The doctor's conclusion? He said since they couldn't see anything wrong, the only option was exploratory surgery. Oh ... and he wanted her to sign a blanket release agreeing that if they found anything, they didn't have to wake her up and ask permission, they could just do whatever they wanted to do. Yeah, right.

I talked her into coming home with me for a weekend visit to my parents. My chiropractor at the time had also been my grandfather's chiropractor for years, so he was sort of a family friend. He agreed to see my gal on a Saturday. He treated her once, and she had no more back pain.

Beware of surgeons. They are trained to cut. Back surgery is irreversable, and it comes with NO guarantees (other than being irreversable). IMHO it is definitely only to be considered as a last ditch procedure, after ALL other options have been explored and tried.
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