Author Topic: US energy independence in five years?  (Read 8505 times)

MillCreek

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US energy independence in five years?
« on: February 12, 2013, 07:46:35 PM »
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/economywatch/us-fast-track-energy-independence-report-suggests-1C8344034

It will be a world economy game changer if the US is no longer pumping petrodollars into the Middle East economy.  I don't mind sending our energy dollars to Canada, eh?
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dm1333

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Re: US energy independence in five years?
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2013, 08:08:43 PM »
http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=37707.msg761620#msg761620

There are a couple of good links in this thread, including one from the .gov. 

Fitz

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Re: US energy independence in five years?
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2013, 08:39:54 PM »
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/economywatch/us-fast-track-energy-independence-report-suggests-1C8344034

It will be a world economy game changer if the US is no longer pumping petrodollars into the Middle East economy.  I don't mind sending our energy dollars to Canada, eh?

I hope it happens. the less we depend on foreign oil, the better.

Canada doesn't count. They're our hat. And they don't tend to blow themselves up in marketplaces. And they have good beer.
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slingshot

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Re: US energy independence in five years?
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2013, 11:24:21 PM »
I think the President touts energy independence but works against the very independance that he proclaims.  Of course, since he said it, that means it was his actions that caused this surge in energy production.  It's all BS.  I get so tired of listening to the double talk.
It shall be as it was in the past... Not with dreams, but with strength and with courage... Shall a nation be molded to last. (The Plainsman, 1936)

drewtam

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Re: US energy independence in five years?
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2013, 11:33:08 PM »
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/economywatch/us-fast-track-energy-independence-report-suggests-1C8344034

It will be a world economy game changer if the US is no longer pumping petrodollars into the Middle East economy.  I don't mind sending our energy dollars to Canada, eh?

Only a minority portion of our oil consumption was ever imported from the middle east. Most comes from domestic, Canada, Mexico (Gulf of Mexico), Venezuela, Nigeria, Columbia, Brasil, etc. Middle east as a whole supplies roughly 6-8% of our consumption.

The latest techniques for frac'ing have been quite amazing in how fast it has changed out energy economy. They say the California field reserves are significantly bigger than the Bakken field in the Dakotas.
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drewtam

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Re: US energy independence in five years?
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2013, 11:36:14 PM »
Bakken field gas flares. (white arrow)
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Ben

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Re: US energy independence in five years?
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2013, 11:48:59 PM »
They say the California field reserves are significantly bigger than the Bakken field in the Dakotas.

I've been reading news stories on that. It will be interesting to see how serious this administration is regarding oil independence and tapping the CA fields. As one can imagine, as interested as central Californians (the conservative part of the state) are about the prospects of drilling, the coastal liberal enclaves will have none of it.
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Boomhauer

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Re: US energy independence in five years?
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2013, 12:03:37 AM »
The boom that is going on out West is insane. We've got headhunters coming to our school constantly looking for welders to go out there upon graduating.




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French G.

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Re: US energy independence in five years?
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2013, 05:02:28 AM »
Haven't looked at the link, but I'll call BS. The will is not there. My shitty state just kiboshed uranium mining of pretty much the biggest deposit in the country. Just hippie FUDs, no real study done. Same state that can't get off-shore drilling off the ground. My neighbors in WV make every kind of shaky argument to slow down Marcellus shale gas extraction. We have no national plan to build more nukes, lots of them, safe, regulated, but free of the current ban by impossible bureaucracy. We have no national will to be free.
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mtnbkr

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Re: US energy independence in five years?
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2013, 07:19:45 AM »
Haven't looked at the link, but I'll call BS. The will is not there. My shitty state just kiboshed uranium mining of pretty much the biggest deposit in the country.

Dammit.  I didn't know they finally managed to kill it.  My in-laws live in SWVA so I'm fairly familiar with the issue. :(

Chris

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Re: US energy independence in five years?
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2013, 10:44:23 AM »
Haven't looked at the link, but I'll call BS. The will is not there. My shitty state just kiboshed uranium mining of pretty much the biggest deposit in the country. Just hippie FUDs, no real study done. Same state that can't get off-shore drilling off the ground. My neighbors in WV make every kind of shaky argument to slow down Marcellus shale gas extraction. We have no national plan to build more nukes, lots of them, safe, regulated, but free of the current ban by impossible bureaucracy. We have no national will to be free.

I blame the Americans in the '60s. They didn't exterminate the *expletive deleted*ing hippies which is where most of our modern problems come from. *expletive deleted*ing hippies.

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OTOH, there wouldn't be a tweeker left in Georgia...

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longeyes

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Re: US energy independence in five years?
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2013, 11:19:28 AM »
Better to die gracefully and green.

Our future is tied to our political leadership and the political intelligence & will of our people.  Draw your own conclusions.  Too many Americans now live in The Matrix.  In fact, last night's speech was The State of The Matrix...
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longeyes

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Re: US energy independence in five years?
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2013, 11:50:40 AM »
I think the President touts energy independence but works against the very independance that he proclaims.  Of course, since he said it, that means it was his actions that caused this surge in energy production.  It's all BS.  I get so tired of listening to the double talk.

Now look, U.S. energy independence is just plain not fair to all those peoples and nations that aren't energy-independent.  Must we always lord it over everyone else?  I ask you.

Case closed.  Let's move on.
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dm1333

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Re: US energy independence in five years?
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2013, 12:35:31 PM »
When you are scrambling, as a nation, to make ends meet you can't go out and do good things in the world.  The natural resources available in this country have allowed us to go out and try to lift the rest of the world up.  Some people have forgotten that.

Neemi

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Re: US energy independence in five years?
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2013, 12:42:21 PM »
Quote
When you are scrambling, as a nation, to make ends meet you can't go out and do good things in the world

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RocketMan

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Re: US energy independence in five years?
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2013, 11:30:30 PM »
I'm waiting for Obama's EPA to ban fracking.  I can feel it coming.
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Nick1911

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Re: US energy independence in five years?
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2013, 11:32:51 PM »
If the US has energy independence in five years, it's because no one can afford $50/gallon gasoline after the dollar crashes.

slingshot

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Re: US energy independence in five years?
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2013, 12:46:44 AM »
Energy independence?  Won't happen.  We'll export the petroleum. and continue to buy from the Middle East.  The current administration is all talk about energy unless it is solar or wind (renewable) energy. 

If the US could reduce emissions from electricty production from coal and use it, we would be essentially energy independant and reduce our total carbon emissions at the same time.  But if the current administratin has its way, there will be no coal mined in the US.  They cry carbon emissions and China and India are increasing their coal production and use yearly and producing more carbon emissions.  It is all a racket.  The Al Gore types will become billionaires over this stuff and there will be no appreciable reduction in world wide carbon emissions.  But we the consumer will pay one hell of a price for our emissions.

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birdman

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Re: US energy independence in five years?
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2013, 07:27:44 AM »
Energy independence?  Won't happen.  We'll export the petroleum. and continue to buy from the Middle East.  The current administration is all talk about energy unless it is solar or wind (renewable) energy. 

If the US could reduce emissions from electricty production from coal and use it, we would be essentially energy independant and reduce our total carbon emissions at the same time.  But if the current administratin has its way, there will be no coal mined in the US.  They cry carbon emissions and China and India are increasing their coal production and use yearly and producing more carbon emissions.  It is all a racket.  The Al Gore types will become billionaires over this stuff and there will be no appreciable reduction in world wide carbon emissions.  But we the consumer will pay one hell of a price for our emissions.

The problem is people confuse energy useful for power generation (which we use virtually no oil for) and energy for mobile applications (for which we use virtually nothing BUT oil).  True, we could do CTL/GTL, but that's as likely as nuclear unfortunately, meaning not much replacement for mobile fuels.

Point is, we are virtually energy independent on the balance (all forms of energy) NOW, but that is because we have a surplus of coal, and a dearth of oil.

Of course, this allows pols to say we will be energy independent, while simultaneously saying we don't want to increase oil/gas production.

And the sheeple just chew their grass and blink.

geronimotwo

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Re: US energy independence in five years?
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2013, 08:44:29 AM »
i know it may seem rather backwards, but for ntional security i would rather use their oil.    as oil feilds go dry i would rather we be left with the last of it.   yes, that means i am a believer in peak oil, whether 50 years down the road or 1000, oil production will end.
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drewtam

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Re: US energy independence in five years?
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2013, 08:56:09 AM »
Hey birdman, how closely do you watch the GTL & CTL news? From what I've been seeing, I'm still optimistic...

Quote
Sasol, the South African oil company, plans to invest up to $21bn in two plants in Louisiana to take advantage of cheap natural gas unlocked by the US shale revolution.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/77ba75b6-3d80-11e2-9f35-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2KyXbyld4


Quote
The new fuel is refined from fats left over from chicken, pork and beef processing. It is supplied by Dynamic Fuels, a joint venture of Tyson Foods and Syntroleum. Opened in late 2010, the company’s plant in Geismar, La., can produce 5,000 barrels a day of the clear, nearly odorless fuel.

According to Jeff Drake, an operations director in Tyson’s Renewable Energy group, none of the fuel feedstock comes from the food stream.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/27/automobiles/racing-fuel-from-the-fat-of-the-land.html?_r=0
The Syntroleum process using the fats left over from Tyson is a Fischer Tropsch process. They break the fats down to syngas.


About 6 months ago, I also saw an article for a shell company buying up Illinois and nearby coal fields and was buyig property to build a coal-to-liquid plant.


I see things slowly moving forward, starting to gain a little momentum. This makes me somewhat optimistic.
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brimic

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Re: US energy independence in five years?
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2013, 09:23:43 AM »
What? We're going to stop the flow of us dollars into the hands og islamofacists? Not Obama's watch.
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RevDisk

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Re: US energy independence in five years?
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2013, 09:37:09 AM »
i know it may seem rather backwards, but for ntional security i would rather use their oil.    as oil feilds go dry i would rather we be left with the last of it.   yes, that means i am a believer in peak oil, whether 50 years down the road or 1000, oil production will end.

Oil being sucked out of the ground, you mean.

There's a lot of ways of harvesting or manufacturing hydrocarbons. We have enough uranium and thorium within the US to be "energy independent" for hundreds to thousands of years. We have enough uranium in our oceans to be "energy independent" for hundreds of thousands of years. Ocean has 4.5 billion tons of uranium, with more added every day via erosion. Oak Ridge National Laboratory's current material can harvest 146 grams of uranium per kilogram of adsorbent, which is only starting to be really researched. Still more expensive than mining, but still an important backup.

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Gewehr98

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Re: US energy independence in five years?
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2013, 09:48:10 AM »
I'm inclined to believe that increased oil production on the US side will simply be exported, not unlike what we're doing with gasoline right now.   =(
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slingshot

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Re: US energy independence in five years?
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2013, 10:02:25 AM »
Geo-political agreements pretty much force the US to export oil.  I believe Japan is the dominant receipient of that.

Coal gas is still not economical.  I believe those plants have pretty much shut down and they were heavily subsidized by the US tax payer.  Have not heard much about Great Plains in ND in a while.

When nip comes to tug, the US will be just fine from an energy point of view.  I have no problem with renewable energy souces.  I read that the electric utilities are starting to kick about being forced to buy excess energy produced by small solar operations.  What is a problem is when the government forces electric utilities to produce a certain proportion of their energy from certain sources rather than producing the electricity from the source(s) that is/are most economical.
It shall be as it was in the past... Not with dreams, but with strength and with courage... Shall a nation be molded to last. (The Plainsman, 1936)