"Out the Door" = Seller Pays Sales Tax?

[Devonai]

So I had a S&W M1917 on consignment for months, and a guy finally offered me $400 "out the door."  I accepted, and went to pick up the check.  Consignment fee notwithstanding,  the total was about $20 light.  When I asked why, the employee told me that "out the door" in this context means the seller pays sales tax.  When I objected, she agreed to give me the full amount.

I had no concept whatsoever of this practice, but I haven't been at this game for as long as some.  What do you think?  Business as usual or shenanigans?

[Brad Johnson]

Unless they gave it to you in writing, the accepted norm for "out the door" is exactly that - everything all rolled into one tidy, easy-to-comprehend sum.  If your state is like Texas, they don't give a rat's rear who pays the sales tax so long as someone pays it.

I'm guessing she's just not familiar with what "out the door" means in common horse-trading usage.

EDIT TO ADD* I forgot that Dev was the seller.  "Out the door" means what Scout says below, that's what the Buyer pays, in total, on the transaction.  Seller is responsible for any other fees, costs, taxes, appreciative beverages, etc.

Brad

[Scout26]

Yep,  $X price "out the door" means that all the buyer pays.  Seller is responsible for paying sales tax, license, dock fees, title transfer, undercoating and any other mandatory costs.

I take that you were selling the gun and agreed to $400 "out the door", that means you were responsible for any taxes, NICS checks, FFL fees involved in the transfer.

You need to go give the consignment place their $20 to cover what they paid in sales taxes. 

[lupinus]

Yep.

Out the door makes negotiation for what the buyer is willing to come out of pocket easier. Any and all expenses are wrapped up in that total.

[cordex]

If your sales tax were 5%, then I would think that $400 "out the door" would mean you were selling it for $380 and $20 would be for taxes.  You'd have to adjust for any other fees, but I would expect them all to be covered by $400.  In such a case, I would also expect a percentage-based consignment fee to use $380 as the sale price.

[lee n. field]

So I had a S&W M1917 on consignment for months, and a guy finally offered me $400 "out the door."  I accepted, and went to pick up the check.  Consignment fee notwithstanding,  the total was about $20 light.  When I asked why, the employee told me that "out the door" in this context means the seller pays sales tax.  When I objected, she agreed to give me the full amount.

I had no concept whatsoever of this practice, but I haven't been at this game for as long as some.  What do you think?  Business as usual or shenanigans?

"Out the door", to me, would mean the selling price gets adjusted so that selling price + sales tax equals out the door price.  You take a minor hit on the sale price.

[Devonai]

Thanks for the feedback.  I learned something new today.  As far as the consignment fee, it was 15%, so I was expecting $340.

Scout, do you really think I have an ethical obligation to give them $20?  The employee did me a courtesy, which I graciously accepted.  As far as I'm concerned that's the end of it.

[Stand_watie]

Thanks for the feedback.  I learned something new today.  As far as the consignment fee, it was 15%, so I was expecting $340.

Scout, do you really think I have an ethical obligation to give them $20?  The employee did me a courtesy, which I graciously accepted.  As far as I'm concerned that's the end of it.

Ethical obligation or not,  a humble "mea culpa" and a 20 dollar bill, will pay off in the long run.

[Gewehr98]

Yup.  Have to agree with Stand_waitie.

I'd wager the store employee had to explain to somebody why she let that $20 walk out the door. 

[Triphammer]

Scout, do you really think I have an ethical obligation to give them $20?  The employee did me a courtesy, which I graciously accepted.  As far as I'm concerned that's the end of it.

Yes. You have an ethical obligation to pay back the $20. That $20 came out of the consignment fee that you agreed to pay.

[Scout26]

Yes, what Stand-Watie, G98 and Triphammer said.   Is you conscience worth $20?

[Devonai]

Maintaining a good relationship with that store and its employees is certainly worth $20 to me.  I just didn't realize how far off base I was at first.   

[Brad Johnson]

I just didn't realize how far off base I was at first.   

So who's on second...?

(Sorry, the temptashuns, they maded me do it)

Brad

[Hawkmoon]

Out of curiosity, what did you think "out the door" meant as far as price?

Also, if you're willing to share, how old are you? I'm a senior citizen, and that term has been a part of everyday lexicon for longer than I can remember. Whether the object of sale is a gun, a car, a camera, a widget or a whatever, the expression has always meant that the "out the door" price is what the buyer plunks down on the counter. How the sale price gets adjusted to allow for the .gov's cut is left up to the seller(s) to figure out.

It hasn't ever been any other way. I am, quite honestly, astonished that (so far) SIX people answered that they didn't know that.

[Stand_watie]

Maintaining a good relationship with that store and its employees is certainly worth $20 to me.  I just didn't realize how far off base I was at first.   

I'm not belaboring you regarding whether you're right or wrong, just adding my perception that the mea culpa and twenty is well worth it in good feelings.

Example. A few years ago I was selling  obscure seeds on ebay. I disremember the exact details, but approx. the sale value amounts were 1.25 to 2.50 per packet, the actual value to me was labor plus postage. Sent out a group of seeds that (I discovered later) were the wrong item (or described incorrectly). End result was that for an unsolicited apology from me included with an unsolicited replacement product, greater than 50% of the wronged customers commented via ebay, personal email, or personal snail mail that they thought I was the greatest thing since sliced bread.


Point? Don't beat yourself up over not knowing exactly what "out the door" means... just take the lemons and make lemonaide.

[Devonai]

Yeah, I'll make the offer next time I'm at the store.  Hopefully I'll run into the same employee.

I'm 36.  I thought "out the door" meant "great deal," as in, "get out of there before they realized they made a mistake."

[vaskidmark]

Yeah, I'll make the offer next time I'm at the store.  Hopefully I'll run into the same employee.

I'm 36.  I thought "out the door" meant "great deal," as in, "get out of there before they realized they made a mistake."

Uh-huh.  Yeah.  Sure.  But now you know.

Do not wait until "the next time [you're] at the store".  Take the time, burn the gas, and make a special trip there to straighten this out.  If you know who it was you dealt with you might call to find out when they will next be there and schedule your trip to coincide with their shift.  Ask the employee to bring the manager in on  the conversation (as the manager is already aware of the basics, if not the details).  A simple "I misunderstood what the term meant" (without saying anything about what you thought it meant) accompanied by an "I'm sorry" and cash pushed over the counter will probably restore you to "good customer" status.

And if they give you some cock and bull story about not being able to take the money because they don't know how to account for it - push it farther across the counter and tell them to use it to go out to lunch on you.  Don't take no for an answer.

And I differ on the issue of your obligation to the store.  I see it as legal, not ethical.  You put the gun up for sale - presumably without a reserve price.  That's a contract.  (And if it was a good LGS they put it in writing.)  If you did have a reserve price the store had no obligation to pass on a lesser offer but doing so would have been good business practice on merchandise that had been sitting for an extended time.  An offer was made and as I see it the buyer paid the sales tax on whatever it came to so that the total he owed the store was $400.  If $20 was the sales tax the buyer already paid - as he should have - the sales price of $380 leaves you with a consignment fee (15% you say) of $57 owed, and you should have walked away with $323 in your hand.

So you may have more than $20 that needs to be pushed across the counter.  There is a chance that the counter clerk will be docked the missing money for their part in screwing up the transaction regardless of their attempt to create customer good will without prior approval.

What I'm getting at is that if this is to be a "learning experience" for you, learn the total lesson.  In the long run it will be money well spent.

stay safe.

[Hawkmoon]

I'm 36.  I thought "out the door" meant "great deal," as in, "get out of there before they realized they made a mistake."

Well, as I said ... I'm a senior citizen. The expression has been around since well before you were born, and it has ALWAYS meant the same thing: "This is the total price I'll pay to walk out the door with this widget."

[Chester32141]

It hasn't ever been any other way. I am, quite honestly, astonished that (so far) SIX people answered that they didn't know that.

I'm one of those six and I can honestly say I misread the question ... I'll bet a few others did too ... 

[Devonai]

OK, here is my plan.  My employer owes me $1800 in back pay (long story).  I should get it soon.  The store in question still has my Makarov IJ-70 on the shelf, which I sold a few months ago but instantly regretted it.  On Monday I will go buy it back, and after explaining the whole issue, offer $20 more than the tag price.  Hopefully this will have a positive outcome.

Thanks again for everyone's feedback.  It was embarrassing, but I would rather do right by the store than earn a reputation as a crappy customer.

[vaskidmark]

That ^^ is not what I would call doing right by the store.  Or by yourself.  Hiding your attempt to correct a mistake by overpaying for anything else is just that.  I just do not understand why you are not willing to separate the purchase of a pistol from un-f-ing-up your earlier mess.

It might just be the way responsibility and personal accountability were beaten into me that is talking.

But it's your life.

[Devonai]

I don't mean to go around in circles with you.  I agree with you on the basic principle here.  What I said was that I will address the issue directly with the manager, then buy the Makarov.  There was never any implication that I would attempt to avoid the discussion by simply buying the pistol.
I see no difference between offering more for the pistol and physically handing the manager a $20 bill.  Either way the manager will know why.

[Hawkmoon]

I don't mean to go around in circles with you.  I agree with you on the basic principle here.  What I said was that I will address the issue directly with the manager, then buy the Makarov.  There was never any implication that I would attempt to avoid the discussion by simply buying the pistol.
I see no difference between offering more for the pistol and physically handing the manager a $20 bill.  Either way the manager will know why.

But doing it the way you describe entails waiting for the windfall paycheck, and then going through a somewhat elaborate machination "soon." Doing the right thing involves handing the store a 20 dollar bill to correct the situation. This is something that can be done "now" rather than "soon." It's so simple and so direct, I join Skid in wondering why you seem to feel a compulsion to avoid the simple, direct solution and instead go through an elaborate work-around that both defers and complicates the corrective action called for.

[Northwoods]

So who's on second... ?

No, Who's on first.

[vaskidmark]

....

Miss manners (rest her soul) taught me that this is where the discussion ends, and why.

stay safe.