Author Topic: Michael Jackson Dead  (Read 32164 times)

S. Williamson

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Re: Michael Jackson Dead
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2009, 08:00:58 PM »
Formal, public request to voluntarily modify or delete posts 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 (this one), 27 and 33.

We don't need this crap here.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 09:25:04 PM by Dionysusigma »
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Perd Hapley

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Re: Michael Jackson Dead (maybe)
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2009, 08:23:17 PM »
Sad to hear, this. I basically grew up on a few tapes of Jackson that I played over and over. =(

Well, if that just don't explain quite a number of things.   :laugh:
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Re: Michael Jackson Dead
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2009, 08:23:49 PM »
What do we need on here?  This is a discussion about Michael Jackson.  And like it or not, his legal troubles were a big part of his life.  To not discuss it would be intellectually dishonest.  Are we to assume you would prefer a "discussion" where only one side, the fluffy "he was such a big celebrity/great singer" side, is discussed?  Like his music or not, that rosy view of his life is just flat out inaccurate.

BryanP

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Re: Michael Jackson Dead
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2009, 08:38:13 PM »
His family and friends have my condolences. I was never a big fan of his work, but today parents lost a son, children lost a father and siblings lost a brother.  Whatever he may or may not have done is now between him and whatever (if anything) lies beyond death.
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lupinus

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Re: Michael Jackson Dead
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2009, 08:46:49 PM »
To his family, friends, children and assorted other loved ones my condolences.  I shall not shed any more tears for him then I will for OJ and various others who got off, but I feel for those around them none the less.
That is all. *expletive deleted*ck you all, eat *expletive deleted*it, and die in a fire. I have considered writing here a long parting section dedicated to each poster, but I have decided, at length, against it. *expletive deleted*ck you all and Hail Satan.

Lennyjoe

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Re: Michael Jackson Dead
« Reply #30 on: June 25, 2009, 08:56:53 PM »
Adios. 

Not necessarily a fan of his but I echo what BrianP says. 

Larry Ashcraft

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Re: Michael Jackson Dead
« Reply #31 on: June 25, 2009, 09:01:25 PM »
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To not discuss it would be intellectually dishonest.

You lost me there, bro, run that by me one more time.

"We need to discuss everything we think we know about this person, or we are intellectually dishonest."

Give me a break...

Myself

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Re: Michael Jackson Dead
« Reply #32 on: June 25, 2009, 09:02:12 PM »
I think Farrah Fawcett was more of a major news story.

taurusowner

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Re: Michael Jackson Dead
« Reply #33 on: June 25, 2009, 09:13:06 PM »
You lost me there, bro, run that by me one more time.

"We need to discuss everything we think we know about this person, or we are intellectually dishonest."

Give me a break...

We're having a discussion about a celebrity.  One forum member is actively seeking deletion of posts because they do not fit with how he would like to choose to remember Michael Jackson.  Thus, suppression of that aspect of his life in order to keep the discussion cheerful would be denying a large part of the real Michael Jackson.  I would like to think that APS members and moderators are mature and honest enough to not perform the internet equivalent of sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting "I can't hear you!"
« Last Edit: June 25, 2009, 09:19:48 PM by Ragnar Danneskjold »

K Frame

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Re: Michael Jackson Dead
« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2009, 09:31:30 PM »
OK, folks...

We can certainly discuss the fact that Jackson had several accusations of pedophilia levied against him, and was tried for that crime, and acquitted. We can also discuss the known fact that he made a rather large payoff to the family of a previous accuser.

What we CANNOT do in this thread, though, is start jumping up and down because he's dead, and because we didn't like the man and we were certain that he was a pedophile, cheering that he's now getting his eternal 'reward' for his crimes.

We're also not going to discuss semantics of law as to whether he was convicted or not and whether or not that "proves" our own pet theories about the man.

If that isn't clear to anyone, I suggest you refrain from posting in this thread entirely because I'm not going to explain the concept twice, I'm just going to get rid of the dense wood.


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Re: Michael Jackson Dead
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2009, 10:12:11 PM »
What do we need on here?  This is a discussion about Michael Jackson.  And like it or not, his legal troubles were a big part of his life.  To not discuss it would be intellectually dishonest.  Are we to assume you would prefer a "discussion" where only one side, the fluffy "he was such a big celebrity/great singer" side, is discussed?  Like his music or not, that rosy view of his life is just flat out inaccurate.

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Re: Michael Jackson Dead
« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2009, 10:41:27 PM »
Ya know, I'm gonna miss Micheal Jackson more than I will Farrah.  Not because I was a fan of his work or such, but becuase he was one of the more surreal personalities in our world.  His talent and ever changing visage, his ability to poke fun at himself as he did in MIB II and living his life as HE chose made him interesting to watch.
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BridgeRunner

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Re: Michael Jackson Dead
« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2009, 11:15:18 PM »
I'm so glad that millions upon millions of people care.  Makes me feel ever so much less obligated to give a crap. 

Didn't penetrate the walls of the cave, so I have no fond memories, and basically couldn't care less if I tried.  I'm just steeling myself for a couple weeks of people berating me for not being appropriately sad. 

I think it's kinda' pitiful that in my office, where we work exclusively for old people, and often the very old, usually impoverished and/or forgotten and/or hideously neglected and/or taken advantage of, and one secretary has the job of monitoring the obits for dead clients, people still are shocked when someone chooses to not give a crap about a celebrity death, but a dead client means that it takes ten minutes instead of twenty to close the file. 

National media is handy, sometimes.  Celebrity deaths ain't one of of those times.

waterhill

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Re: Michael Jackson Dead
« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2009, 11:38:12 PM »
I'm so glad that millions upon millions of people care.  Makes me feel ever so much less obligated to give a crap. 

Didn't penetrate the walls of the cave, so I have no fond memories, and basically couldn't care less if I tried.  I'm just steeling myself for a couple weeks of people berating me for not being appropriately sad. 

I think it's kinda' pitiful that in my office, where we work exclusively for old people, and often the very old, usually impoverished and/or forgotten and/or hideously neglected and/or taken advantage of, and one secretary has the job of monitoring the obits for dead clients, people still are shocked when someone chooses to not give a crap about a celebrity death, but a dead client means that it takes ten minutes instead of twenty to close the file. 

National media is handy, sometimes.  Celebrity deaths ain't one of of those times.
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Gewehr98

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Re: Michael Jackson Dead
« Reply #39 on: June 26, 2009, 01:20:07 AM »
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What do we need on here?

What do we need on here?

Key Riced All My Tea - are you serious?

Maybe I can help lay it out for all, since it's obvious some didn't get the memo.

1. We need not speak ill of the dead. We don't do that here. The body's still warm, and some here sound like friggin' vultures on carrion.

2.  We honor the title and charter of the forum, namely, Armed Polite Society.

3.  We maintain civil discourse.  If one can't say anything nice, how about one says nothing at all?

I don't know if there's a full moon approaching, estrogen levels are high, the recession took away one's supply of happy pills, whatever, but when I log in to the forum and the two subforums with the most activity are the staff lounge and thread Dumping Grounds, it sends a definite signal.

Here's the deal - we've already canned one long-time forum member today because he couldn't grok the whole polite discourse concept after several repeated warnings.  Others are on a very short list, and that was before this thread.  If we can't maintain some sense of decorum here at APS, then we're no better than Democratic Underground or ARFCOM, and have no business being online. I'd prefer not to ban folks, and I'd prefer not to have to remind others that foot-in-mouth disease can indeed be terminal to their user accounts.

The staff here at APS is trying keep a certain level of quality in the place.  That's pretty hard to do when one sees stuff like what was regurgitated in the Michael Jackson thread.  The guy died, and some folks here don't like him.  I get it, thank you very much.

However, there's no value added in throwing the whole alleged pedophilia angle into the discussion, and posturing about how his demise made you happy.  That would be akin to my saying, "I have absolutely no intention of attending TaurusOwner's funeral, because I hate standing in line with others just to piss on the grave of an (alleged) wombat felcher!"

Sure, I get instant gratification for getting that off my chest, but that's about it.  There's no value added to the thread, and now we've thrown in stuff that discredits TaurusOwner's good name, and adds additional insight, desired or otherwise, into both his character and mine.  Not a lot of respect shown for the dead there on a very public forum that prides itself on polite discourse, nicht wahr? TaurusOwner may have a talent that overshadows anybody else here at APS, but if I throw in the spectre of his Habitrail vice in an effort to shoot him down, what have I become?

I grew up listening to the Jackson Five and Michael Jackson, and I agree he was a talented performer.  He was eccentric, but that's sometimes synonymous with the genre.  I liked Freddie Mercury and Queen a lot, and to say he was eccentric would probably be an understatement.  I think Elton John is a musical genius, and nobody disputes his eccentricities.  I'm not waiting for Elton to die just so I can be a faceless person hopping on an internet forum to say, "Good riddance!"   

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Re: Michael Jackson Dead
« Reply #40 on: June 26, 2009, 02:15:36 AM »
So, to steer this in another direction:

What will his musical legacy be?

I mean he was hugely popular in the '80s and still has a huge following now, but as years go by will his music stay popular and influence artists or will his work just fade away?

Did he change popular music, make it something it wasn't and push it in a new direction, or was he just the biggest artist of his time. There's a difference and I'm wondering how others see it.
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Re: Michael Jackson Dead
« Reply #41 on: June 26, 2009, 02:55:06 AM »
I think he will be remembered for his style and dance more then his music, some people gather in large groups to do that thrilla dance.

I'll remember early J5 stuff and how difficult it was to compete for girls attention when their hearts/minds were on "I'll be there"

by the 70's I was into serious music, like Pink Floyd, disco was something to be avoided
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S. Williamson

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Re: Michael Jackson Dead
« Reply #42 on: June 26, 2009, 03:00:27 AM »
So, to steer this in another direction:

What will his musical legacy be?

I mean he was hugely popular in the '80s and still has a huge following now, but as years go by will his music stay popular and influence artists or will his work just fade away?

Did he change popular music, make it something it wasn't and push it in a new direction, or was he just the biggest artist of his time. There's a difference and I'm wondering how others see it.
On that note, I'm not sure.  Pop music is usually not written by the "artists" who perform it, but Jackson was famous for (among other things) for doing so.  The "cultural icon" aspect is certainly cemented.

Biggest thing I see is that Weird Al Yankovic lost a major source of inspiration.  :|

I think he will be remembered for his style and dance more then his music, some people gather in large groups to do that thrilla dance.

I'll remember early J5 stuff and how difficult it was to compete for girls attention when their hearts/minds were on "I'll be there"

by the 70's I was into serious music, like Pink Floyd, disco was something to be avoided
Actually, when he was part of the Five, the music-writing and arrangements were handled almost exclusively by Motown.  The choreography (Five and afterward) was usually planned by an outside party, too.
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Antibubba

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Re: Michael Jackson Dead
« Reply #43 on: June 26, 2009, 03:47:22 AM »
IIRC, one of the reasons he was acquitted was because the mother of the "molested" boy appeared to be very much interested in the financial rewards such would bring.  I think she had some criminal activity in her past.  Pedophile?  Honestly, I don't know.  He certainly appeared to one of the most interesting non-schizophrenics on the planet.

BTW, didn't he make arrangements to be cryogenically stored at death?  I can't remember if it was all of him or just his head.
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MicroBalrog

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Re: Michael Jackson Dead
« Reply #44 on: June 26, 2009, 03:59:10 AM »
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I think she had some criminal activity in her past.

She claimed some employees at J.C. Penneys [sp?] molested her, too. They settled out of court for $157,000. She also pled the Fifth during the Jackson trial regarding comitting welfare fraud. Her husband accused her of coaching the children to lie on numerous occasions, and she generally wasn't a good witness.

Quote
BTW, didn't he make arrangements to be cryogenically stored at death? 

I do believe he did.

That said, cryogenical storage has to be commenced ASAP after you're legally dead. There's a time limit after which your brain starts to deteriorate and it is pointless to freeze you because the data that your head holds has degraded away. This concept is known as information-theoretic death in the cryonics community. Considering that an autopsy will have to be done on Mr. Jackson, I do not believe that it will be complete in time for them to perform the perfusion and other processes needed for cryonics. By the time they're done Mr. Jackson will be... even more dead than he is right now.

This is a major issue for cryonicists, actually, as they lose a huge proportion of their patients because people just do not get them to the facilities in time, either through lack of knowledge, or often through lack of desire or maliciousness.



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K Frame

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Re: Michael Jackson Dead
« Reply #45 on: June 26, 2009, 07:01:23 AM »
I don't think there's any doubt that Jackson's musical legacy is going to be felt for a LONG time to come.

He really ushered in the age of the multimedia music superstar.

There are a lot of critics and industry insiders who credit the Thriller video for cementing MTV and videos as an absolute necessity to the success of a song/artist. Jackson and his producer (can't remember the guy's name) like no one else did at that time that understood exactly what music videos could be. After Thriller hit the airwaves, subscriptions to MTV took a significant spike upwards, and kept going up.

Jackson's music also is credited with breaking the "color barrier' that MTV erected in its early years. Almost no black artists were included - it was safe, middle of the road easy listening pop like the Buggles. It took the growing success of Billie Jean and a threat by Jackson's record label to pull ALL of their artists, not just the black ones, from MTV's play list, to get MTV to come around.

When you get down to it, there were very few stage performers like Jackson, and certainly none with the incredibly complex choreography blended with a wall of light and sound. You can see others performers imitate Jackson's dance moves all the time, while still more have embraced, to varying degrees of success, the on-stage carnival of light, sound, and motion. Garth Brooks is a good example of that.

Back in 1987 my girlfriend at the time and I went to see a Howard Jones concert. He was pretty big at the time and had a really good stage show. Afterwards she said the stage show was "Michael Jackson light."

To this day I'm still not sure if it was a compliment or a not, but the fact is that a LOT of performers really ramped up their stage shows after Jackson hit.

I keep wondering who influenced Jackson, though, and I keep coming back to two acts -- Jackie Wilson and Queen/Freddie Mercury.

Wilson and Mercury were both incredibly energetic performers on stage, and through the late 1970s into the 1980s Queen was creating visual stage shows of  kind no one else was doing. No one ever talks about who influenced Jackson, but I think those were big for him.

The guy is in the R&R hall of fame twice (Jackson 5 and solo), he's in the Songwriters Hall of Fame, and he won almost 200 major music awards.

I'm confident in saying that you're going to be seeing his influence for a LONG time to come.

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Re: Michael Jackson Dead
« Reply #46 on: June 26, 2009, 07:57:23 AM »
After hearing the news of Jackson's death, I can't help but think about the parallels b/t him and Elvis Presley....both great entertainers for several decades....both ending up with troubled personal lives and self-destructive behaviors....and both dying young and tragically....

Personally, I'm praying for comfort for the family now instead of dwelling on the faults of Jackson....after all, Elvis was pretty well a brain-dead doper when he passed....doesn't mean I don't appreciate both artists' works....or mourn for their souls....
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lee n. field

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Re: Michael Jackson Dead
« Reply #47 on: June 26, 2009, 08:16:49 AM »
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I went to see a Howard Jones concert. He was pretty big at the time

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280plus

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Re: Michael Jackson Dead
« Reply #48 on: June 26, 2009, 08:32:29 AM »
He's not dead, he's just gone to hang out at that place where Jack, Elvis and Jim are until they all make their triumphant returns together. It'll be a great show!  =D
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Re: Michael Jackson Dead
« Reply #49 on: June 26, 2009, 09:14:35 AM »
In the late 70's early 80's i tried my damndest to stay away from disco-pop.  I was a card carrying member of DREAD- Detroit Rockers Engaged in the Abolition of Disco.  I could not, however, escape the influence of the gloved ones.  Throughout my blue-jeaned and black tee-shirted adolescense I was accused by the members-only and parachute pant wearing masses as a throwback, a burn-out (my drug-free status notwithstanding), a longhair - coming home from class drinking coffee and cranking up the Elvis (Costello) Neil Young or Zeppelin on my dad's Hi-Fi, opting out of the HighSchool dances.

Many loved and fawned over his presence, I did not.  His passing is part of nature, neither happy nor sad.  Had nature been allowed it's course, he may still be alive.  The Hostess Twinkee is popular, but that says nothing of it's food value.

Jackson's legacy may be wide, but to my musical tastes, it's not deep.  Jackie Wilson an Queen have been mentioned, formidable in their own right, but in my eyes, (Post Thriller) he was more akin to a wax museum Liberace on a hot day. 

If I could attribute any positive personal thing to his music or legacy, it may have greased the skids for the influx of techno or post-punk e.g. Joy Division/New Order, Talking Heads etc - but even then, in the mid eighties, after half of the 90 million 109 million copies of Thriller found their way into the trash bin, I still preferred rock.

RIP Michael, you'll be missed.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2009, 11:01:16 AM by Two Cold Soakers »
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