Who's to blame in sex assault of girl? Father says nobody

[Jocassee]

Folks, I am about halfway to being an expert on Africa, and this boggles my mind. I have no idea what to do with this information. I honestly hope these remarks stem from language difficulties and not utter disregard for women.

As per the last thread--keep it pertinent, a limit the snarky remarks and maybe this one will stay open.

Mike, feel free to drop the hammer...

PHOENIX - It's a story creating a huge stir across Arizona.

The parents of an 8-year-old girl sexually assaulted by four boys are blaming their daughter for the attack, according to police.

Those four boys are now under arrest, and the victim is in Child Protective Services, away from her mom and dad.

The girl's father told ABC15 he loves his daughter and plans to get her back.

"I need her back, I want her back, and they (Child Protective Services) said I can have her back in three months," he said.

The father also said the family moved to the United States five years ago from West Africa and they don't understand the United States' criminal system.

When ABC15 asked him what he wants to happen to the suspects involved in the assault against his daughter, he answered, "Nothing."

Police are exploring what impact culture may have played in the incident and in the parent's response.

The four sex assault suspects in the crime apparently lured the girl into a vacant shed near 43rd Avenue and Thomas Road last Thursday by offering her chewing gum, said Phoenix Police Sgt. Andy Hill.

They then restrained her, and sexually assaulted her for 10 to 15 minutes, according to Hill.

Officers were called to the scene after receiving phone calls about the young girl screaming, and running out of the shed partially clothed.

Arriving officers said they saw several boys running from the scene, and were able to detain one and later identify three more.

Hill said all the boys, ages 9, 10, 13 and 14, have been arrested and put in a juvenile corrections center. All four have apparently admitted to planning the assault and have been charged in the case.

One of the boys, identified as 14-year-old Steven Tuopeh, is being tried as an adult for the crimes, facing two counts of sexual assault and one count of kidnapping.

The 13-year-old suspect is accused of three counts of sexual assault, and one count of kidnapping. The 10-year-old is accused of two counts of sexual assault and one count of kidnapping. The 9-year-old suspect is accused of one count of sexual assault. All of the crimes listed are class 2 felonies.

According to authorities, the girl's parents said they blame their daughter for the assault and for bringing shame on her family.

A relative at the girl's home said the statement was untrue but declined to elaborate.

According to the victim's family, the 8-year-old victim wanted to go to a party and left the home.

"Looked around, I look around and she was not here," said the 8-year-old's father.

Femi Babarinde, an African Studies professor from the Thunderbird School of Global Management, said it is normal to feel shame because of a rape in the family in the Liberian culture.

"When you look at the shame culture in African societies it basically means something negative happened and it affects not only that individual [the victim] but the family and extended family," said Babarinde. "They may be reacting to the attention that this will get and the knowledge of this within the community that could be a source of embarrassment."

Babarinde said if CPS decides to give the girl back to the family, her parents will need intensive counseling.

"Part of the counseling will be to have them understand that this is a different setting and a different environment in the United States. Laws are in place and, if things like this happen, it's criminal behavior and one the family will have to understand. It will not go unpunished. And part of the healing process is for the family to rally around the girl herself," said Babarinde.

Many of you are sounding off about the story in the comments section at the bottom of this page.

"I don't know who are the worst animals here, the boys or the parents," said ABC15.com reader StayathomeMom.

"These families are refuges and still have the mindset of the country they have been delivered from," reader j2bears added.

Add your own comment right now at the bottom of this page.
Liberian Ambassador responds
"Having heard the story myself, I'm outraged. In Liberia, the family and law enforcement officers would be embracing the victim. To hear that the family is not doing that, that should be an isolated case."

Edwin Sele
Deputy Ambassador of Liberia to the United States

[Monkeyleg]

Similar attitudes to those in some Muslim countries (or is Liberia Muslim?).

It's impossible to find any logical basis in the attitude if you regard men and women as being equal. That's why there likely won't be any outcry from the feminist organizations about this.

[Jocassee]

Similar attitudes to those in some Muslim countries (or is Liberia Muslim?).

It's impossible to find any logical basis in the attitude if you regard men and women as being equal. That's why there likely won't be any outcry from the feminist organizations about this.

If I had to make an educated guess, the family in question is upper class (for Liberia), black, and nominally Christian.

[Hawkmoon]

If I had to make an educated guess, this is an excellent example of why the United States needs to allow a LOT less immigration, and spend a LOT more effort on ensuring that legal immigrants understand the way the laws and the mores in THIS country operate.

I also hope that CPS does not give custody back to those parents.

[vaskidmark]

The comments of the family of the young girl are, apparently, culturally based and not from any difficulty with the English language.

The problem, as I see it, is that neither the family of the young girl nor the families of the young men (boys?) have acculturated and assimilated to their new homeland and its social mores.  Unfortunately, the young girl may have assimilated too much for her own good while remaining in that community of displaced Liberians.  Had she remained in Liberia she would understand why it is not appropriate for young girls to be on the streets unaccompanied, and why she was considered "fair game" by these young men (boys?).

Although at times I feel like I am doing nothing but beating the accumulated dust off the shrivled hide of the long-dead horse, it is situations like this one that remind me that we have failed the immigrant community for most of the last 100 years.  By "we" I mean the individual, not the .gov.

The last great wave of immigrants were met by those who understood that in order for them to partake of the great blessings of this country they must learn to live as Americans, and not as displaced whoever-they-were-before-they-came-here's.  To that end the Settelment House movement proved it was one of the fastest ways for the newly arrived to acculturate and assimilate.  (Yes, there were also some great injustices perpetuated by the Settlement House movement, but let's move past that for now.)

Nowadays, immigrants get off the plane or dry their feet and start looking for neighborhoods and communities filled with others just like themselves.  There is no incentive to acculturate and assimilate.

Until these families stop thinking and behaving as Liberians living in the USA, they and we are going to continue to experience this sort of behavior.  The same for every other whoever-they-were-before-they-came-here group that will not assimilate.

stay safe.

skidmark

[Uncle Bubba]

Nowadays, immigrants get off the plane or dry their feet and start looking for neighborhoods and communities filled with others just like themselves.  There is no incentive to acculturate and assimilate.

Until these families stop thinking and behaving as Liberians living in the USA, they and we are going to continue to experience this sort of behavior.  The same for every other whoever-they-were-before-they-came-here group that will not assimilate.

The FOBs back then, as now, went looking for or were directed to or ended up in places where there were others like them. The difference between them and modern immigrants is that back then they wanted their children to grow up American and be American, and that was what was expected of them by society in general and the official organs of society. Nowadays, though, while some if not many still want that for their children, they have guilt-ridden white people telling them and their children not to even try to be American, to hold onto their "cultural heritage" and reject the culture around them.

[Gewehr98]

Folks, I am about halfway to being an expert on Africa

Really?

[AJ Dual]

The last great wave of immigrants were met by those who understood that in order for them to partake of the great blessings of this country they must learn to live as Americans, and not as displaced whoever-they-were-before-they-came-here's.  To that end the Settelment House movement proved it was one of the fastest ways for the newly arrived to acculturate and assimilate.  (Yes, there were also some great injustices perpetuated by the Settlement House movement, but let's move past that for now.)

Nowadays, immigrants get off the plane or dry their feet and start looking for neighborhoods and communities filled with others just like themselves.  There is no incentive to acculturate and assimilate.

I don't think that's absolutely true.

I think America's ability to absorb the great immigrant waves of the late 1800's and early 1900's was simply because that from Italy, to Poland, to Ireland... They were all still part of "Western Civilization" and all came from a background of a basic European Judeo-Christian backgrond.

And in large part, the massive influx of these people did indeed settle and look for neighborhoods of others just like themselves. Or economics and social stratification forced most of them there. New York, Chicago, even my own native Milwaukee had very well defined Irish, Italian, Polish etc neighborhoods. And to the outside "native" Americans from earlier waves, or with roots going back to colonial times those communities seemed as foreign as a Liberian or Somali one would seem today. And to a degree, those communities were often quite insular.

At the time other Americans viewed these communities with just as much suspicion and alarm. Protestant nativist Americans from English and Germanic backgrounds were very concerned about Catholics from Ireland and Italy who had "Fealty to the Pope and Rome". An attitude that lasted even up to the 1960's and was an issue in the election of John F. Kennedy as President.

I see parallels with that and Muslim immigrants today.

OTOH, there never was a "Catholic Court" movement that I'm aware of, unlike Europe and the United Kingdom, where there are efforts to set up Sharia Law and Banking, and there are now the first rumblings of that here in the Sates too...  :|

I think the issue is: Within a generation or two, will non-European, non-Western Civ, non Judeo-Christian immigrant communities integrate as wholly as the 1880-1920 European waves did? Or are deep cultural barriers that will prevent it?

[Iain]

OTOH, there never was a "Catholic Court" movement that I'm aware of, unlike Europe and the United Kingdom, where there are efforts to set up Sharia Law and Banking, and there are now the first rumblings of that here in the Sates too...  :|

AJ - do you have Bet(h) Dins? Looks like it - http://www.bethdin.org/

We have Beth Dins too. They have existed for more than a century, and in recent times at least, have passed utterly without comment from the general populace. Someone suggests setting up exactly the same thing (arbitration courts that must operate under and within British law) and suddently 'the muslims are coming!'.

[AJ Dual]

AJ - do you have Bet(h) Dins? Looks like it - http://www.bethdin.org/

We have Beth Dins too. They have existed for more than a century, and in recent times at least, have passed utterly without comment from the general populace. Someone suggests setting up exactly the same thing (arbitration courts that must operate under and within British law) and suddently 'the muslims are coming!'.

Never even heard of them. I would assume we do. And that's a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

How do we really figure out what is more "what is old is new again" in terms of xenophpbia, and "this time it's different", and really is a cause for concern?

For all I know we've had Judaic Law courts/arbitrators for decades/centuries here in America without issue. However, it could just be that the Ultra-Orthodox community is too small to cause any fuss, and they don't agitate against American political interests or basic cultural standards. OTOH, I get the sense Bridgewalker looks less than fondly at her upbringing within that community, and that it did not afford her the basic freedoms and opportunity that Americans are supposed to nominally enjoy.

[Jocassee]

Really?

I've spent four years there, written papers on it, and I speak Afrikaans. That has to count for something. I'm also working through the canon of important works on Africa as budget allows. Current reading is King Leopold's Ghost.

Seriously though, I'm a work in progress.

[Balog]

AJ - do you have Bet(h) Dins? Looks like it - http://www.bethdin.org/

We have Beth Dins too. They have existed for more than a century, and in recent times at least, have passed utterly without comment from the general populace. Someone suggests setting up exactly the same thing (arbitration courts that must operate under and within British law) and suddently 'the muslims are coming!'.

1. I'm not a huge fan of those either. American should sit under American justice. If they wish to enter into some form or arbitration it should not be given any special standing.

2. When was the last time Jews blew up American buildings, engaged in female genital mutiliation, practiced widespread honor killings etc? Stories like this show that some cultures really are better than others, and some cultures really do deserve to be fought against. I'm not saying we need to revive the Empire, but at least defending Western civilization and our unique culture would be a good thing. But of course that's racist...

[jackdanson]

I've spent four years there, written papers on it, and I speak Afrikaans. That has to count for something. I'm also working through the canon of important works on Africa as budget allows. Current reading is King Leopold's Ghost.

Seriously though, I'm a work in progress.

Yeah, I'd consider that pretty experienced.  

I wear FUBU jeans, so I'm pretty much an expert too.

[MechAg94]

 Unfortunately, the young girl may have assimilated too much for her own good while remaining in that community of displaced Liberians.  Had she remained in Liberia she would understand why it is not appropriate for young girls to be on the streets unaccompanied, and why she was considered "fair game" by these young men (boys?).

I guess I am taking a few comment out of the rest of your post, but I have a hard time accepting that family's attitude since she was only 8.  I don't understand the attitude that treats daughters this way.  Our culture just has an entirely different view of sexual assault and rape especially of children. 

[AJ Dual]

2. When was the last time Jews blew up American buildings, engaged in female genital mutiliation, practiced widespread honor killings etc? Stories like this show that some cultures really are better than others, and some cultures really do deserve to be fought against. I'm not saying we need to revive the Empire, but at least defending Western civilization and our unique culture would be a good thing. But of course that's racist...

That is indeed a key point in many of these discussions. What the mainstream media and others on the political left and the poltically correct movment portray as "racisim" is not. It's culturalisim.

And some cultures, or cultural practices or attitudes are indeed inferior to others.

Unfortunately the fact that certain races have a higer incidence of belonging to certain cultures has allowed those who wish to stifle all debate to make "racisim" into an overly broad term.

[Jocassee]

That is indeed a key point in many of these discussions. What the mainstream media and others on the political left and the poltically correct movment portray as "racisim" is not. It's culturalisim.

And some cultures, or cultural practices or attitudes are indeed inferior to others.

Unfortunately the fact that certain races have a higer incidence of belonging to certain cultures has allowed those who wish to stifle all debate to make "racisim" into an overly broad term.

Quoted for Truthiness.

[RevDisk]

That is indeed a key point in many of these discussions. What the mainstream media and others on the political left and the poltically correct movment portray as "racisim" is not. It's culturalisim.

And some cultures, or cultural practices or attitudes are indeed inferior to others.

Unfortunately the fact that certain races have a higer incidence of belonging to certain cultures has allowed those who wish to stifle all debate to make "racisim" into an overly broad term.

If said quotes attributed to the girl's family are accurate, the family should be deported if they have not been given citizenship yet.  If the family are citizens, it's too late.

I do agree with AJ on the whole culturalism mess.  I have no problems with immigrants.  I do mind mass immigration from cultures that are not conducive to our system of government.  If a parent is pissed at their daughter for being raped and not the folks responsible, they are hostile to our culture and system of government.  They are entitled to their own culturual views.  They are not entitled to enforce their cultural views when it is contrary to our laws.  Punishing an 8 year for being raped would probably earn a visit from Child Protection Services or whomever, and bloody well should.

If folks want follow their particular culture of their homeland, they are very welcome to do so.  More power to them or whatever.  Heck, they're welcome to follow their culture here too while visiting.  So long as they respect and follow our laws.   If they are applying for citizenship, that's another story.  The primary focus of the citizenship process should be to determine if the individual can adapt to our society, culture and laws.  If not, they should not be allowed to become citizens.     

What demented bureaucrat logic allows that girl's father to be allowed to stay in our country, but gives the finger to folks like Viking or MicroBalrog? 

[Perd Hapley]

That is indeed a key point in many of these discussions. What the mainstream media and others on the political left and the poltically correct movment portray as "racisim" is not. It's culturalisim.

And some cultures, or cultural practices or attitudes are indeed inferior to others.

Unfortunately the fact that certain races have a higer incidence of belonging to certain cultures has allowed those who wish to stifle all debate to make "racisim" into an overly broad term.

Quoted again, for double-truthiness. 

[Iain]

Balog - just to be somewhat irritating - I guess Beth Dins were operating in the UK about the same sort of time as the King David hotel got attacked...

I was only responding to the general overblown response to sharia courts (not necessarily from AJ) There is no particular special status for sharia courts or Beth Dins either, they are just another arbitration set-up. Also, the vast majority of muslims living in the UK and the US have no time for the atrocities you outline, nor are they things inherent in islamic culture, but are cultural practices tolerated by certain islamic cultures.

[Berettababe]

As I said in the now locked thread (which despite a request to mods, was not purged of off topic posts and re-opened):

don't understand why people who aren't civilized and aren't capable of living in our society are brought here in the first place. I can trace my ancestry directly back to slaves. I don't feel any kinship with these people. The strange thing is that primarily White churches bring african immigrants here en mase for reaons that are beyond me.

Now I've known quite a few immigrants from west and south africa, and although some of them are disciplined and studious, they don't really share anything with Blacks who have been here for generations. I personally believe that affirmative action and other racial 'equalizers' are reprehensible manifestations of White guilt, but at the same time, those who take advantage of such options are descended from one of the greatest inhuman acts that our nation ever perpetrated. Johnny-come-lately immigrants are also given advantages by quotas, etc, and I find this very unfair as their forefathers didn't pay for it in blood and death.


Most Blacks share my opinion when it comes to african immigrants although most of us aren't willing to voice it out of a sense of misguided unity.

[Balog]

Balog - just to be somewhat irritating - I guess Beth Dins were operating in the UK about the same sort of time as the King David hotel got attacked...

I was only responding to the general overblown response to sharia courts (not necessarily from AJ) There is no particular special status for sharia courts or Beth Dins either, they are just another arbitration set-up. Also, the vast majority of muslims living in the UK and the US have no time for the atrocities you outline, nor are they things inherent in islamic culture, but are cultural practices tolerated by certain islamic cultures.

No offense Iain, but I don't really care about how you all do things on your side of the pond. You'll also note I specifically said I didn't care for Beth Dins.

That being said, some cultures (like UO Jews and ME Muslims) bring so much pressure to bear on their groups, and have rules so antithetical to the rule of US law that they should not have a court of their law allowed as binding arbitration. Non-binding purely religious arbitration, sure.

[MechAg94]

If said quotes attributed to the girl's family are accurate, the family should be deported if they have not been given citizenship yet.  If the family are citizens, it's too late.

On the other side of that, it appears the daughter at least is more American in culture than the parents.  As long as we don't allow their old cultural beliefs on this to stand legally, their kids will most likely adopt different attitudes.