Who blew up Nord Stream 1 and 2?

[230RN]

Maybe they'd be less motivated to lie if they were strictly term-limited.

Terry, 230RN

"I'd rather be governed by the first 2000 people in the Boston phone book than the 2000 people who make up the faculty of Harvard."
--William F. Buckley Jr.  There are many variations on this concept which Mr. Buckley used.

     

[kgbsquirrel]

Maybe they'd be less motivated to lie if they were strictly term-limited.

Terry, 230RN

"I'd rather be governed by the first 2000 people in the Boston phone book than the 2000 people who make up the faculty of Harvard."
--William F. Buckley Jr.  There are many variations on this concept which Mr. Buckley used.

     

Why would that make them not lie?  That'd just reduce them to lying for one term to get in and get paid selling us out.  If anything it would make it easier for them to lie to us since it would be a new face every term.  Candidate nomination is what needs overhauled so the paid liars can't be selectively sent in by their owners; take away their ability to buy nominations.

I propose a draft style: a few people are drafted from every county, after actual (not show/staged) public interviews and debates the county votes for their nominee to send up to the state, and so on.  You'll get fifty candidates that the nation as a whole then can pair down to 10, and then 2, and then choose your president.  The point of this whole arrangement is to take away candidate nomination/selection/gerrymandering by big money and entrenched interests.

[230RN]

^
Heh.  Actually, no lie, I had a yes-no option in that post which I took out to kind of keep the thread on track:


Yes?

No?


So I thank you for your remarks. Personally, I think the benefits of term limits outweigh the disadvantages in terms of discouraging the control freak factor in politics --as well as moderating the life benefits of public office like medical care and retirement goodies as motivation for getting elected or re-elected to "public" service.

But that's beside the question of the pipeline damages and who's lying about it.

So: sorry.

[Ben]

The official position of the United States appears to be that it was Russian sabotage:

President Joe Biden labeled the damage to Gazprom-led Nord Stream 1 and 2 pipelines under the Baltic Sea as an intentional “act of sabotage,” telling Russian President Vladimir Putin that the United States and its allies won’t be “intimidated” by his words or threats.

“Let me say this: It was a deliberate act of sabotage, and now the Russians are pumping out disinformation and lies,” Biden told reporters at the White House on Friday. His latest remark rebukes Putin’s claim that the West is responsible for blowing up the pipelines, which carry Russian natural gas to Germany.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/biden-says-nord-stream-pipeline-damage-was-deliberate-act-of-sabotage_4768172.html

[Ben]

It is being reported that sabotage was via tnt. I'm surprised at the tnt, but maybe it was used to throw off blame? I dunno. I, with no evidence, tend to think tnt would be a Ukraine thing.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nord-stream-gas-leak-caused-hundreds-pounds-explosives-un-russia-2022-10

[MillCreek]

Isn't TNT old school when it comes to explosives?

[sumpnz]

Did they say it was “TnT” or did they say a “charge equivalent to so much TnT”?

And has actual TnT ever been a UDT material?  Seems like it would be too sensitive to water, but I’m hardly an expert.

[kgbsquirrel]

It is being reported that sabotage was via tnt. I'm surprised at the tnt, but maybe it was used to throw off blame? I dunno. I, with no evidence, tend to think tnt would be a Ukraine thing.

https://www.businessinsider.com/nord-stream-gas-leak-caused-hundreds-pounds-explosives-un-russia-2022-10

Major component of component B, and torpex, if memory serves.

[Ben]

The story says tnt, but its business insider, so...

Edit: kgb posted while I typed. I have no expertise in explosives other than what Boyd crowder taught me.

[Ben]

While still having zero explosives expertise, I looked up TORPEX and I guess as implied by the acronym, it was a torpedo explosive used in WW2. Which - adjusting my tinfoil - how hard would it be for any actor to rig up TORPEX torpedoes in a modern submarine? Or who all might have access to older diesel electric subs?

[kgbsquirrel]

While still having zero explosives expertise, I looked up TORPEX and I guess as implied by the acronym, it was a torpedo explosive used in WW2. Which - adjusting my tinfoil - how hard would it be for any actor to rig up TORPEX torpedoes in a modern submarine? Or who all might have access to older diesel electric subs?

That's just what I thought of while typing.  There's a lot more possibilities, which I shamelessly ripped from wiki because I'm busy doing kerbals.

Examples of explosive blends containing TNT include:

Amatex
Amatol
Ammonal
Baratol
Composition B
Composition H6
Cyclotol
Ednatol
Hexanite
Minol
Octol
Pentolite
Picratol
Tetrytol
Torpex
Tritonal

[zxcvbob]

That's just what I thought of while typing.  There's a lot more possibilities, which I shamelessly ripped from wiki because I'm busy doing kerbals.

Examples of explosive blends containing TNT include:

Amatex
Amatol
Ammonal
Baratol
Composition B
Composition H6
Cyclotol
Ednatol
Hexanite
Minol
Octol
Pentolite
Picratol
Tetrytol
Torpex
Tritonal

IIRC, TNT is seldom used by itself because it is oxygen deficient.  (that's why it makes black smoke when it blows up)  So they mix it with something that has excess oxygen (like ammonium nitrate) to make it balanced.

[Angel Eyes]

[Ron]

We blew up the pipelines to keep Germany in line and dependent on us. Trying to isolate Russia and dominating Europe through NATO seems to be the play. If that doesn't work blow some stuff up, it's always our plan B (or A). The neocons/globalists running our foreign policy since HW Bush hate Russia with the heat of a billion exploding suns. They don't seem to care for us much either.

Just a theory and all that ... who knows?

[Ben]

Obviously no corroborating data to back it up, but it makes for interesting speculation. I'm still in the camp that believes it to be a not to be ignored possibility.

https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2023/05/22/huge-if-true-nord-stream-sabotage-whistleblower-allegedly-comes-forward-thread/

[WLJ]

Saw that. Could be true. Trouble is we may never know which one of 50+ stories we've heard is true or even close to it.
At this point I'm surprise we haven't seen someone come out and say it was  Elvis in a flying saucer that did it yet.

[HankB]

Saw that. Could be true. Trouble is we may never know which one of 50+ stories we've heard is true or even close to it.
At this point I'm surprise we haven't seen someone come out and say it was  Elvis in a flying saucer that did it yet.

Putting out a lot - and I do mean a LOT - of fake stories and "reveals" and "whistleblower" assertions is a time-honored way to camouflage the true story, if it ever comes out.

What's the real story? I don't know. But it's not implausible that some part of the Brandon administration had a hand in whatever happened.

[Hawkmoon]

What's the real story? I don't know. But it's not implausible that some part of the Brandon administration had a hand in whatever happened.

The beauty of that is that Brandon might have approved it, and five minutes later he wouldn't even know what Nord Stream was.

[BobR]

Saw that. Could be true. Trouble is we may never know which one of 50+ stories we've heard is true or even close to it.
At this point I'm surprise we haven't seen someone come out and say it was  Elvis in a flying saucer that did it yet.

With JFK as his co-pilot.

bob

[WLJ]

The beauty of that is that Brandon might have approved it, and five minutes later he wouldn't even know what Nord Stream was.

FIFY

[RoadKingLarry]

With JFK as his co-pilot.

bob

And Fred Noonan as navigator.

[WLJ]

And Fred Noonan as navigator.

Ouch!

[WLJ]

Guess what's back in the news.

Roman Chervinsky, a former commander of one of the Ukrainian special forces units, was the "coordinator of the Nord Stream operation" and managed a six-person team that carried out the devastating multibillion-dollar infrastructure attack in September 2022, according to the report.

The outlet said Chervinsky and the group of six people rented a sailboat under false identities and used deep-sea diving equipment to place explosive charges on the gas pipelines.

He says it's Russian propaganda

Senior Ukrainian official coordinated Nord Stream pipeline attack: report
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/senior-ukrainian-official-coordinated-nord-stream-pipeline-attack-report

[Ben]

I don't know what to believe anymore, other than it was someone other than the ruskies (unless it was some ruskie non-sanctioned fringe cabal).

[HankB]

I don't know what to believe anymore, other than it was someone other than the ruskies (unless it was some ruskie non-sanctioned fringe cabal).

They (there's always a "they") subcontracted to OceanGate and their Titan submersible . . . and then were afraid someone would talk, so something had to be done . . .