Author Topic: So now the BSA is co-ed...  (Read 4030 times)

T.O.M.

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So now the BSA is co-ed...
« on: October 11, 2017, 02:40:58 PM »
http://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/press-releases/bsa-expands-programs-welcome-girls-cub-scouts-highest-rank-eagle-scout/

Long story short...Cub Scouts will allow girls fully into program, though individual dens (Cubs of same age) will be single gender.  And, there will be a girl program similar to Boy Scouts that will let girls earn Eagle, no specifics yet.

I think I would have rather had them say "we're co-ed," than this incremental bovine scat.  This announcement raises more questions than it answers.

I've been predicting the death of the BSA for some time, kind of like the "doomsday clock."  Well, looks like it's about 11:58 for the BSA...

Edited: I'm already hearing voices saying that if they don't integrate individual units, there will be lawsuits, which means that in, oh, a year or so, it will be fully co-ed.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2017, 03:14:05 PM by Chris »
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makattak

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Re: So now the BSA is co-ed...
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2017, 03:07:49 PM »
WHAT A SHOCK. BSA caves on one liberal demand and all the other dominoes fall.
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dogmush

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Re: So now the BSA is co-ed...
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2017, 06:24:29 PM »

Edited: I'm already hearing voices saying that if they don't integrate individual units, there will be lawsuits, which means that in, oh, a year or so, it will be fully co-ed.

I don't have kids, quit scouting at the cub level, and am never going to have a kid, so it's easy for me to say this but:

I'd be tempted to go full Galt on them, make them sue, drag it out until every asset the BSA has has been given to the defense lawyers then shut the program down. 

The prevailing opinion of folks I know in scouting is that it isn't now the same program it used to be, and going full COED will kill what is left and make it just another after school program, of which there are already plenty. Nothing that made the BSA the BSA will be left,  so why not burn it down on the way out?

BlueStarLizzard

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Re: So now the BSA is co-ed...
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2017, 08:01:48 PM »
I'm actually going to say this might be the answer. If BSA can keep their girl troops in line and functioning as they have their boys, this could be the answer that wipes out the disaster that has become the GSA. Girls actually scouting instead of selling cookies and "grrril power"ing isn't a bad thing. I really don't see how female Eagle Scouts is all that offensive as long as the current standards are maintained.

Making co-ed optional for individual troops and pushing it so that areas with large numbers of participants maintain separate boy and girl clubs, while areas with less can actually pull together a full troop by going co-ed.

Makes me wish I was that age again, so I could join that instead of stupid Girl Scouts.
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charby

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Re: So now the BSA is co-ed...
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2017, 10:32:18 PM »
Time for college dudes to join sororities.
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RoadKingLarry

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Re: So now the BSA is co-ed...
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2017, 01:59:24 AM »
Time for college dudes to join sororities.

You are deplorable misogynistic, cisbastage,
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T.O.M.

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Re: So now the BSA is co-ed...
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2017, 09:05:16 AM »
Wow.  I knew the GSA would be upset, but I didn't expect this...

https://www.today.com/video/boy-scouts-are-set-to-admit-girls-triggering-controversy-1071496771810

Charles Garcia, a member of the GSA Board of Directors says that any girl who joins Boy Scouts is at risk of being sexually assaulted, because BSA hasn't corrected the problem of sex offenders in the organization. (1:20 in the video)

Guess anyone who volunteers with Boy Scouts is a perv, huh Chuck?
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BobR

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Re: So now the BSA is co-ed...
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2017, 09:15:07 AM »
But, but, if you embed girls with the boys, what will become of the camp followers?  >:D



bob

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Re: So now the BSA is co-ed...
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2017, 09:27:42 AM »
I guess the BSA will have to provide birth control devices now as well as armed security for their troop.
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dogmush

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Re: So now the BSA is co-ed...
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2017, 09:33:26 AM »
I guess the BSA will have to provide birth control devices now as well as armed security for their troop.

They had better, because if there are coed camping trips, there's going to be some *expletive deleted*ing.  (Says the guy who went on co-ed camping trips in high school)

charby

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Re: So now the BSA is co-ed...
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2017, 09:53:47 AM »
You are deplorable misogynistic, cisbastage,


Thanks for the compliment
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charby

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Re: So now the BSA is co-ed...
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2017, 10:10:39 AM »
They had better, because if there are coed camping trips, there's going to be some *expletive deleted*ing.  (Says the guy who went on co-ed camping trips in high school)

Even happened on our overnight coed trips with the church youth group.
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Hawkmoon

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Re: So now the BSA is co-ed...
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2017, 10:12:13 AM »
But, but, if you embed girls with the boys, what will become of the camp followers?  >:D


They automatically become girl Boy Scouts, of course.
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: So now the BSA is co-ed...
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2017, 03:28:00 PM »
Amazing. The only time in all my years of coed youth groups the only time I remember the down and dirty happening was once at shooting camp. Her father was also one of the guys who ran the camp and she got disowned (yeah, for real) when they got caught...
I mean, there was some making out and stuff at various camps and whatnot, but nobody was going "all the way".

And the GSA can suck it. They destroyed their own organization decades ago. The girls want to do the stuff the boys are doing, which is what GSA used to do, but then they lost the whole scouting part of the organization and screw 'em if they can't figure out what they did wrong.
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Mannlicher

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Re: So now the BSA is co-ed...
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2017, 05:23:18 PM »
as I was telling a pal,  just because the Girl Scouts have been destroyed, is no reason to do the same to the Boy Scouts.   This is a predictable, but still disgusting turn of events.  The communist left continues to win round after round in the American Culture Wars.

KD5NRH

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Re: So now the BSA is co-ed...
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2017, 02:18:40 AM »
Amazing. The only time in all my years of coed youth groups the only time I remember the down and dirty happening was once at shooting camp. Her father was also one of the guys who ran the camp and she got disowned (yeah, for real) when they got caught...

Talk about a guy with craptastic survival instincts...

Scout26

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Re: So now the BSA is co-ed...
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2017, 02:35:28 AM »
First the "Official Statement", then I'll give you some background and insights.

Quote
This week, the National BSA Board of Directors approved an expansion to allow participation in specified Scouting programs for both boys and girls on a local decision level.

Three Fires Council looks forward to offering families an important additional choice in meeting the character development needs of all their children.  The needs of today’s families are at the core of the BSA’s mission, to improve the lives of young people.  Families today are seeking opportunities to meet the developmental needs of both girls and boys.

Recent surveys of parents not involved with Scouting showed high interest in getting their daughters signed up for programs like Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts, with 90 percent expressing interest in a program like Cub Scouts and 87 percent expressing interest in a program like Boy Scouts.  Plus, more than 90 percent of current Scouting families and leaders believe the BSA programs are relevant to boys and girls.

Starting in the fall of 2018, families can choose to sign up their sons and daughters for Cub Scouts.   We will support our chartered organizations and units in serving our communities.

While we don’t have all the details at this time, we wanted to acknowledge this exciting new opportunity to bring the benefits of our Scouting to the entire family.  In the coming weeks, we will be working closely with our operating committees to iron out the many details necessary to welcome both boys and girls into our programs.

We will deliver a program for older girls that will enable them to earn the Eagle Scout rank.   Details of this new program will be announced later in 2018, projected to be available in 2019.

“This decision is true to the BSA’s mission and core values outlined in the Scout Oath and Law.  The values of Scouting – Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Kind, Brave and Reverent, for example – are important for both young men and women,” said Michael Surbaugh, the National BSA’s Chief Scout Executive.

Although known for its iconic programs for boys, the BSA has offered co-ed programs since 1971 through Exploring and since 1998 with the Venturing program.  

For more information, please review the official statement from National BSA Chief Scout Executive Michael Surbaugh.  

In the meantime, we’ve put together some talking points and frequently asked questions to help you in communicating at the district and unit levels.

With the help of all our volunteers and Scouting parents, we will continue to accomplish incredible things for young people and the communities we serve.

Please see the attached supporting documents for your reference.

Yours in Scouting,


A few things:

1.  If you are not a current volunteer (and I only know of two others on this board- Chris and Charby), I don't want to hear about how this or other matters "Are ruining Scouting".   How the hell do you know ??  You are NOT involved.  And Scouting has to evolve to meet the needs of youth and their families.  Did you bitch when they updated the Scout Handbook ?? We are now on the 13th Edition. That means Scouting as changed, significantly enough, 13 times, over the past 107 years.  Merit badges have come and gone.  I don't hear anyone bitching that Rabbit Raising, Bookbinding, Farm Arrangements, along with Cotton Farming, Grasses, Legumes, and Forage Crops, (among others) are gone; while Space Exploration, Nuclear Science, Digital Technology, and Composite Materials have been added (among others).

2.  I was part of the "conversations" that were held with volunteers at the Council level.   The feedback we got from not only the parents of current scouts, but also from parents of scouts that had "dropped" the program, but also from parents with youth currently not in the program consisted of these major points:
A.  There are about 40% of families that consist of single parents.
B.  Even for two parent families have each child involved in multiple activities leaves them little time as the are constantly running from one activity to another, especially with multiple children.  So that somewhat early on, there is the push to "choose" one activity per child.
C.  Having one activity that all their children can participate in, especially if it is a character building program like Scouting, would be very high on their list of activities, even ahead of most sports.

3.  Girl Scouts are not delivering a Character Building program nor an Outdoor Program like Cub and Boy Scouting provide.*

4.  The Chartering Organization can still decide whether to admit Gay and/or Transgender Scouts and Leaders.  They will also be able to decide to have All Male and/or All Female and/or Mixed Gender Units.  (as Committee Chair for a Cub Scout Pack, I meet with our Chartering Organization on Tuesday to present them with the options and allow their board to decide the direction they wish to take.  I will meet with the Chartering Organization Rep for my son's Troop tomorrow to begin the conversation with him.  He also sits on the Council Committee, so I have a fairly good ideas where he stands.)

5.  The standards will remain the same.  Unlike the military that has different standards for Physical Fitness, girls will have to meet the standards for both Cub Scout Achievements along with Rank and Merit Badges for Boy Scouts.  There will not be "Boy Standards" and "Girl Standards".

6.  Girls have participated in Boy Scouts since 1968 with Explorers, and since 1998 with Venturing.  So this is nothing new to Scouting, and we have years of experience with Co-Ed activities.  (In fact, we even have the experience of the failed Camp Fire Girls/Kids to draw from.)

7.  We did "negotiate" with the GSA regarding a merger of some sorts.  Talks broke down over.....wait for it.....COOKIES!!!

8.  Most Cub Scout Packs are already camping with the entire family coming along.  In fact, our campouts are advertised as "Family Camping"  
not "Dad and the Boy(s)".  And we frequently have the siblings, and often the entire family, to include the moms, attending.  So they are there anyway.  Same with Pack meetings.  Mom and/or Dad want to be there to see little Timmy get his Bag o' Bling.  They can't leave little Suzy at home by herself, so she gets drug along to the meeting.  

9.  The GSA is also severely lacking when it comes to an outdoor program and camping.  Why ??  Most moms don't camp.  Especially, by themselves, and then with a bunch of teenage and pre-teen girls.  It just doesn't happen very much.%  Go back and read what BSL wrote, the girls are being seriously under-served.  


* - I have personally talked with several Girl Scout leaders.  They are appalled at the lack of program materials from the GSA.  Where I can go into a Scoutshop (or order online) a book that has all the 2-4 page lesson plans to accomplish all the required and optional objectives for a year.  There is nothing like that for Girl Scouts.  Leaders have to develop everything on their own.  In contrast, when I was Den Leader, at the beginning of each school year, I would ask parents which achievement they wish to lead.  (It wasn't going to be me talking at EVERY. DAMN. MEETING.)  And read off the list of "Things to be Done"  Each parent would volunteer to conduct one meeting.  I would hand them the 2-4 page "Lesson Plan" and say "Here's what the goal is, you don't have to do everything in here as long as the boys get the gist of what's required."  And then setup the calendar so we all knew who was doing what and when.   Oftentimes, if the parent wasn't the Subject Matter Expert, they knew someone who was and we would either to visit them, or they would come visit us.  For example, when the boys were to earn their Readyman (First Aid) Webelos Pin, I asked a buddy of mine who was firefighter/paramedic to help.  He invited us to his Firehouse on a Friday night when he wasn't working.  Friday nights were homemade pizza nights.   =D   He had a table and chairs setup out on the equipment floor, and began the class.  About five minutes in, the Alarm goes off, followed by the location and nature of the alarm.  A bunch of firefighters come busting out the quarters door, they jump into their bunker gear, then onto the engine and Ambulance, and then go roaring out into the night.   The boys are just sitting there:  :O :O :O :O :O   DUDE !!1  THAT WAS THE COOLEST THING EVER !!!!  :O :O :O  It took a couple of minutes to get the boys refocused on the task at hand, but despite several alarm calls that night, managed to get through the curriculum for the pin.  The boys really had a great time making pizzas with the fireman (who enjoyed it as much  if not more then the scouts).  I had a couple parents tell me how much I sucked, because it was going to be very, very hard to top that night.  :P :P  &

Again, I asked a buddy, sent him the 3 page lesson plan and said "Make sure they get the gist of this." The Girl Scout don't have anything like that.

%  The wife of my Cubmaster is the Girl Scout Troop leader (They have twin boys in 3rd Grade and Daughter in 7th Grade).   The daughter frequently hangs out and participates in boys' Den meeting because "what they do is cooler then I do in Girl Scouts" (her words, not mine).  They recently earned the Whittling Chit.  She looked right at her mother and asked "Why don't we get to play with knives?"  The mom has lamented that she has an extremely hard time recruiting other moms to go on campouts, to the point where most are cancelled (unless in someone's backyard.)  Driving several miles to an actual campground is out of the question, unless it has cabins along with flush toilets and showers (and even then it's iffy for most moms).   There are finally the awards.  Most everyone knows what an Eagle Scout is.  They may not know exactly how it's earned, but they know it's a "BIG DEAL", and something that is not easy to achieve.  Has anyone every heard the "Gold Award" ??  Buehler, Buehler, Anyone ?  It's the Girl Scout equivalent to Eagle Scout.  But hardly anyone has heard of it or knows what it is.   Their daughter who is already well on her way to the Gold Award has already said she wants to quit Girl Scouts and join Boy Scouts as soon as she can.   Why ??  "Because they do the cool stuff."  Again, her words.   As BSL said it simply boils down to this:

Quote
The girls want to do the stuff the boys are doing, which is what GSA used to do, but then they lost the whole scouting part of the organization and screw 'em if they can't figure out what they did wrong.


&- I was really concerned that the our group of 9 year old boys wouldn't sit still for more then five minutes when the one Mom did the scrapbooking lesson.  The boys bought 5-10 pictures each and she supplied all the rest of the materials (we paid five bucks per scout, but I know she probably supplied several hundred dollars in Creative Memories supplies.)  Anyway, the other dad there, and I, were shocked that all 10 boys sat and diligently worked on their scrapbook pages for over an hour.  Other then the occasional comparing of work, they weren't ever bored or bouncing off the walls like we expected.  We never had to redirect them to get to work, they were bound and determined to have the "coolest" scrapbook page.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2017, 03:35:45 AM by Amy Schumer »
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p12

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Re: So now the BSA is co-ed...
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2017, 07:22:29 AM »
Will BSA offer a sex badge now?


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Hawkmoon

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Re: So now the BSA is co-ed...
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2017, 10:42:07 AM »

Guess anyone who volunteers with Boy Scouts is a perv, huh Chuck?

Not all BSA volunteers are pervs, but the fact remains that the organization has not taken any definitive steps to purge the ranks of pedophiles. The statement by the GSA person is valid.
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lee n. field

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Re: So now the BSA is co-ed...
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2017, 11:18:38 AM »
Quote
The daughter frequently hangs out and participates in boys' Den meeting because "what they do is cooler then I do in Girl Scouts" (her words, not mine).

Two of my sons were in scouts.  (Both made Eagle.)   The one posted this on his Bookface.  My older daughter commented:

Quote
Wow!!! I always kinda wished I could be a boy scout. It looked so fun. I doubt this is a big enough town to end up having any girls dens, but I'd be very excited to have that opportunity for my girls.
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Mannlicher

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Re: So now the BSA is co-ed...
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2017, 11:42:44 AM »
Amy,  when we reach the point where only 'those in the know', or 'those that have actually participated' can make valid comments,  we won't have very many threads, and certainly shorter, less entertaining threads.   :)

Hawkmoon

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Re: So now the BSA is co-ed...
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2017, 11:46:54 AM »
While I admit to not being in the know right now, today, I was a Cub Scout, I was a Boy Scout, I have been an Explorer post advisor, and I know others who are or have been BSA leaders. If I had a son today, I would not encourage him to join the Boy Scouts.
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T.O.M.

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Re: So now the BSA is co-ed...
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2017, 12:21:02 PM »
Maybe I should say this, to be clear...I am a Scoutmaster. I have been an Assistant Scoutmaster, a Cubmaster, and an Assistant Cubmaster.  Started when my oldest joined Tiger Cubs at age 5, so I've got 12 years in as a leader.   And, I was a Cub Scout, a Boy Scout,  and earned my Eagle in 1984.  All that said, the program is dead only if those who care about it walk away.  My concern over the change isn't "Oh My God! Da Girlz!"  It's, "Oh may God, why are they doing this piecemeal crap again?"  Either go co-ed, or don't.   All I can see out of this separate but equal plan is pissed off people on both sides, more litigation, and the highly likely result being a fully co-ed program with high attorney fees.  

People talk about the program being hurt?  But what is the program.   Here's a hint...to teach life skills.  Leadership, self-reliance, skills that they don't teach in school (but are invaluable in real life, like first-aid, personal financial skills etc.).  None of this will change if teaching to Bobby and Sue compared with currently teaching Bobby and Tim.  That should, and likely will, stay the same as it is now, or hopefully improve, as working with members of the opposite sex is an important life skill.

My concern for the program now, as always,  is the lunatic fringe.   The people with agendas to push who will want to change the program.  Or people who bitch about this so much that they poison their unit, or get BSA sued...again.

Like with the gay issue,  my unit has no intention of changing how things are done, with the exception of tenting/sleeping arrangements, and probably bathroom issues, when BSA ends up going full co-ed, probably in the next couple of years.  One way or the other, I'll be by the fire.   Coffee will be hot.  Still teaching survival skills, and Law Merit Badge.  Still believing in the value of teaching young people to be self reliant.
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Scout26

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Re: So now the BSA is co-ed...
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2017, 02:29:53 PM »
Not all BSA volunteers are pervs, but the fact remains that the organization has not taken any definitive steps to purge the ranks of pedophiles. The statement by the GSA person is valid.

Amy,  when we reach the point where only 'those in the know', or 'those that have actually participated' can make valid comments,  we won't have very many threads, and certainly shorter, less entertaining threads.   :)

While I admit to not being in the know right now, today, I was a Cub Scout, I was a Boy Scout, I have been an Explorer post advisor, and I know others who are or have been BSA leaders. If I had a son today, I would not encourage him to join the Boy Scouts.

Again, it goes back to my point of not those "in the know" but those that are actually involved in the program.  Have we "purged" the pedophiles.  Actually, yes.  Leaders have to under go background checks.  There is a very strong and robust Youth Protection Program not only for Adults to complete, but for the Youth as well.  I know that in my Unit and District, there is a Zero Tolerance for violating those standards.  And it's not just "You're kicked out of Scouting", but we file and press charges with Law Enforcement.  You won't put your sons in Scouting, but you'll send them to school where there are just as many perverts (male and female along with classmates) or sports teams (*cough* Denny Hastert *cough*).  The fact is that Scouting gives boys the tools to PREVENT being sexually abused, not only in Scouting, but in ALL areas of their lives.   Leaders have to re-take the training every two years, Parents of Cub Scouts have to cover it with the sons every year.  Boy Scouts every two years.  In addition, there is the "Cyber Chip" which the boys have to do.  It covers threats from being on-line.  Again, the program is only as good as the parents involvement.   Feel free to peruse the through the link, to see what the BSA does to protect the youth.

http://www.scouting.org/Training/YouthProtection.aspx

And while I share some of Chris' concerns there are valid reasons to keep units "Separate but Equal".  We've had "Da Girlz" in Scouting for quite a while.  Mom's that are Leaders, and go camping.  Girls in Venturing and Exploring, plus the experience of the Camp Fire program.   We've already had to figure out how to accommodate females within Scouting.  And I don't think we'll be sued as long as everything is equal.  There is enough evidence to show that both Boys and Girls need have their own programs as each learn and grow in different ways.  One thing we learned from the Campfire Kids experiment, is that girls mature faster then boys, and what would happen is the girls would take on the leadership roles at a younger age then boys.  The boys would get frustrated later when the leadership positions where all filled by girls, then the boys would quit because they got tired of being "bossed around" by the girls.  So by having separate units and sub units by gender, gives the boys the opportunity to grow and develop at their pace.  Even the Girls Scouts agree with that concept.  Along with an overwhelming amount of studies and research. And the radical feminists are caught in a trick bag.  They want their own program, and the want same thing as the boys.  That's what we're giving them.

And to what Chris also said.  It's about the adults and willingness, and dedication to delivering "The Program", what Baden-Powell called "A Game with a Purpose."  It is to develop people of Good Character with those skills that they no longer teach in schools.  It's a program that is applicable to both Boys and Girls.   Again, read what BSL wrote, and what Lee Enfield's daughter wrote.  That was the overwhelming feed back we got.  The girls are craving a program like Scouting.  The parents want one program to take the entire family to.  They all see the value that Scouting Provides and it's applicable to Boys and Girls.  Now it's just the mechanics of delivering that program so that it benefits both Boys and Girls.

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Like with the gay issue,  my unit has no intention of changing how things are done, with the exception of tenting/sleeping arrangements, and probably bathroom issues, when BSA ends up going full co-ed, probably in the next couple of years.  One way or the other, I'll be by the fire.   Coffee will be hot.  Still teaching survival skills, and Law Merit Badge.  Still believing in the value of teaching young people to be self reliant.

And like with the Gay Issue, it's up to each unit and their Chartering Organization as to whether to allow girls or not.   Or to form a new unit for just for Girls.  As Chris said, one way or another, I too, will be by that fire. As a Committee Chair and Counselor for 26 different Merit Badges, to develop young people to be self-reliant and of good character.

As a Committee Chair, I know how hard the youth facing leaders (Den Leaders, Cubmasters, Assistant Scoutmasters, and Scoutmasters) work to deliver the program.   I'm fortunate to have leaders that just as dedicated as Chris is to program.  They are the ones I admire most.  And I know that my son would thrive in Chris' unit. 

And finally, for those who don't have kids, there's nothing that say that you can't be involved.  If you care about the future and the youth of this country, get involved.  Become a Merit Badge Counselor, work with a local unit on the Committee, volunteer at the District level.  There is a great deal of work that is needed to make sure that we can deliver the best program possible.  Not all of that work consists of sleeping on the cold, hard ground.   
 
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BlueStarLizzard

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Re: So now the BSA is co-ed...
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2017, 02:36:34 PM »
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%  The wife of my Cubmaster is the Girl Scout Troop leader (They have twin boys in 3rd Grade and Daughter in 7th Grade).   The daughter frequently hangs out and participates in boys' Den meeting because "what they do is cooler then I do in Girl Scouts" (her words, not mine).  They recently earned the Whittling Chit.  She looked right at her mother and asked "Why don't we get to play with knives?"  The mom has lamented that she has an extremely hard time recruiting other moms to go on campouts, to the point where most are cancelled (unless in someone's backyard.)  Driving several miles to an actual campground is out of the question, unless it has cabins along with flush toilets and showers (and even then it's iffy for most moms).   There are finally the awards.  Most everyone knows what an Eagle Scout is.  They may not know exactly how it's earned, but they know it's a "BIG DEAL", and something that is not easy to achieve.  Has anyone every heard the "Gold Award" ??  Buehler, Buehler, Anyone ?  It's the Girl Scout equivalent to Eagle Scout.  But hardly anyone has heard of it or knows what it is.   Their daughter who is already well on her way to the Gold Award has already said she wants to quit Girl Scouts and join Boy Scouts as soon as she can.   Why ??  "Because they do the cool stuff."  Again, her words.   As BSL said it simply boils down to this:  

It goes deeper than that.

When I was a Junior, my mother volunteered to organize a canoeing trip for us. By that point in time, our troop was down to 3 girls and our troop leader who had been with us from Daisy's. Our troop leader also had MS and was holding out for one more year with us, so we could complete Juniors.
My mother thought it would be nice to take us out and do something that not only our troop leader couldn't physically do, but also do something outdoorsy instead of what we normally did (which was generally volunteer work, usually for MS fundraisers) This canoeing trip was supposed to be a kind of last hurrah for us.

Now, my mother has been paddling since she was a kid. She taught me to paddle as soon as I was tall enough to handle a paddle. About 90% of our family vacations involved floating down a river in a paddle propelled vessel. We usually ended up on the river at least once a month during the summer. So, suffice to say, my mother knows what the hell she is doing.

But when she got a hold of the GSA requirements for a GSA sanctioned canoe trip, she had to scrap the whole thing. Their requirements outrageously beyond feasible. We would have needed more adults with the "proper" credentials then we had girls in our troop. We would have been forced to use the wrong kind of canoe. It was questionable if we could have even gone on moving water. The best she would have been able to do would have been boring us all to tears paddling 20 foot fat canoes around the local lake (if she could have found them since most rentals around here stop at 18')

and that was back in the 90's. I highly doubt the regulations have gotten any better.

The GSA hasn't just wandered away from outdoor activities, they've completely sabotaged any attempt to do them with the regulations they've put in place. They've focused all their efforts on to, for lack of better term, a feminist mission to push girls into STEM and business type fields. The last I checked (and mind you I got a little confused since they've completely changed how they do patches and awards since my day) the whole thing now revolves around cookie selling, tech and "leadership" with a little volunteer work thrown in.

edit to add: Also, I had completely forgotten what the GS equivalent was to Eagle Scout. Thanks for reminding me. Which goes to show how forgettable it is. I knew we had something...  :laugh:
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