Fifteen minutes I'll never get back

[Brad Johnson]

Was poking around the interwebz for info on controlled demolition failures.  I stumbled across this:

http://www.arguewitheveryone.com/september-11th/34447-world-record-tallest-building-brought-down-controlled-demolition.html

Warning... do not read unless you really, really have nothing better to do... like a barbed wire colonoscopy or maybe that weekly self immolation therapy.

I was dumb enough to follow it for a couple of pages.  Now I'm going outside to find my brain.  It ran screaming out the door five minutes ago.

Brad

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

First page has a sig-worthy quote:

You do realize there are people on this discussion board with way more knowledge than all those experts. If you don't believe me, just wait for their replies to your post.

You can easily tell who those experts are; they're the ones who will curse you out and call you stupid.

[Regolith]

Yeeaaahhh....I got about three posts in, saw what it was about, then exited stage right.

It doesn't matter how many facts or how much logic you throw at troothers, they're absolutely convinced that they're right.  It's almost like they need that myth to keep living.

[Zardozimo Oprah Bannedalas]

It doesn't matter how many facts or how much logic you throw at troothers, they're absolutely convinced that they're right.  It's almost like they need that myth to keep living.

It's impossible to disprove. Just say "so and so is complicit, too." If you have enough facts, it ends up with everybody being involved in the conspiracy but you and them, and they're not too sure about you.

[Perd Hapley]

The other day I heard about some org called Engineers and Architects for Truth (or something).  Anybody know what that's about?

[AJ Dual]

There are studies that suggest humans actually have brain structures and genes that actually control or favor a sense of religion or spirituality.

I think conspiracy theorists get this mechanism misdirected at the conspiracy they and others have built up in their minds.

It's not about the conspiracy, it's about them. It's the lens through which they see themselves and how they define themselves. Without their belief and as one of the "chosen few" who understands the "truth", they're just an un-married 40-something living in mom's basement, with Cheeto stains on their Fruit of the Loom T-shirt.

[Mabs2]

STUFF

Hey, whoa, there's nothing wrong with Fruit of the Loom shirts.
Them things be comfortable.

[sanglant]

i prefer Fruit of kaBOOM



i keel you

hey my link was better than Brad's dumb truthers. bet obama hires the bunch of them to oversee the investigation into mission "suv dud".(or was it "my bomb didn't go off because i didn't but enough carban credits?")

[alex_trebek]

The other day I heard about some org called Engineers and Architects for Truth (or something).  Anybody know what that's about?

As I understand it, they are engineers and architects that happen to also be truthers. I saw an interview of one of them a long time ago on some news show. IMO they only add a very small amount of credability to the truthers, if any.

[seeker_two]

First page has a sig-worthy quote:

You can easily tell who those experts are; they're the ones who will curse you out and call you stupid.

Sound like the "experts" in the Obama Administration..... 

[grampster]

i prefer Fruit of kaBOOM



i keel you

hey my link was better than Brad's dumb truthers. bet obama hires the bunch of them to oversee the investigation into mission "suv dud".(or was it "my bomb didn't go off because i didn't but enough carban credits?")

That's my favorite clip.  Dunham is great!

[MechAg94]

As I understand it, they are engineers and architects that happen to also be truthers. I saw an interview of one of them a long time ago on some news show. IMO they only add a very small amount of credability to the truthers, if any.

I'm an engineer.  Trust me, there is no guarantee any given engineer will be smart or wise.  We can be just as stupid as everyone else. 
I could tell you about the guy I know who believes that George Bush made sure all the Hurricane aid was in Mississippi and held it back from Louisiana after Katrina.  Never mind that the interstate was knocked out and roads were closed all over Louisiana and the state gov and mayor screwed up.

IMO, the human brain is big on pattern recognition.  I think these people just see patterns that aren't true and can't let it go. 

[MechAg94]

If I remember right, there was a video or presentation that was emailed around a few months after 911 that flashed pictures at you with comments trying to get people to believe the conspiracy angle.  Snopes did a good job debunking it, but IMO, that video showed the way these people think.  They are looking at surface evidence and failing to really analyze it any deeper and see the inconsistencies in it.  After a while, they believe it strong enough that they reject any contrary evidence.

[sanglant]

Mech, we rented a house for a while that was wired by engineer, loose wires, light switches that did nothing, street lamp hanging(literally, it wound sway with the breeze) off the side of the house. till then i respected engineers as a group, quite a wake up. oh it was his house, a nut he was. they spray painted over water damage to sell the house instead of fixing the roof. well his wife treated him like a dog, so i guess the world is in balance.

edit: left out why he had wired it.

[alex_trebek]

I'm an engineer.  Trust me, there is no guarantee any given engineer will be smart or wise.  We can be just as stupid as everyone else. 
I could tell you about the guy I know who believes that George Bush made sure all the Hurricane aid was in Mississippi and held it back from Louisiana after Katrina.  Never mind that the interstate was knocked out and roads were closed all over Louisiana and the state gov and mayor screwed up.

IMO, the human brain is big on pattern recognition.  I think these people just see patterns that aren't true and can't let it go. 

I am as well, though most don't believe me. I either look dumb, or have people skills IRL.

Working with others, I would agree with your assessment.

[MechAg94]

I have to say that I have met some pretty brilliant engineers also, but I give little significance toward engineers in general recommending anything.


I tend to have the same attitude about any professional recommending something or endorsing something.  There better be more to it than just bragging about credentials or using big words.  I see people occasionally who get snowed by that stuff, but it never meant much to me even before I went to college; less now.  I guess I am a natural cynic at times.

[alex_trebek]

There isn't anything wrong with that. It is often the difference between the smart engineers and the rest. The ones who aren't smart, or lack enough confidence, often try to confuse others using terminology. I always thought that sharing knowledge was far more productive.

Take this truthers group as an example. They presumably use confusing terms to convince people that their beliefs are correct. If they were simply educating, they wouldn't be effective at all because people would arrive at the logical conclusion.

[MechAg94]

Agreed.  I always figured that you really understood a concept when you could restate it in your own words and in simple language. 

[AJ Dual]

Agreed.  I always figured that you really understood a concept when you could restate it in your own words and in simple language. 

You want simple language?

“I do believe that it's the first time in history that fire has ever melted steel."
                                                                 Rosie O'Donnell

[Ned Hamford]

You want simple language?

“I do believe that it's the first time in history that fire has ever melted steel."
                                                                 Rosie O'Donnell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7w64fbqYQY

[Waitone]

First page was all I could handle.

[Hawkmoon]

You want simple language?

“I do believe that it's the first time in history that fire has ever melted steel."
                                                                 Rosie O'Donnell

Well, that WOULD be simple. Problem is, it would also be incorrect. Steel buildings get fireproofing applied to them for that very reason ... so that a bad fire won't cause the structure to collapse. The steel doesn't have to "melt" ... all it has to do is get hot enough to change the temper, and down she comes.

As a specific example, back around 1970 there was a catastrophic fire in the building housing the Yale School or Architecture. That building was reinforced concrete throughout, which is generally considered rather fireproof because the steel is protected from heat by several inches of concrete. Problem is, it was the end of the year, the students were all cranking away on their thesis projects, and the building was chock-a-block full or paper, paint, balsa wood, glue, and various other flammable materials. The fire on the upper stories was hot enough that it did, in fact, melt the steel (at least to the point of structural failure, although not literally puddles of liquid metal).

But, the only thing Rosie is an expert on is shooting off her fat, ugly mouth.

[sanglant]

and when tempering(or annealing) steel, the longer you leave it the lower the temp that will get it to a given hardness. of coarse the temps are always high(over 400^o if i'm remembering right, i'm sure it wont be long for someone that knows to come through if i'm wrong )