Author Topic: Let's take a wild animal into the house and treat it like it's domesticated (Read 6099 times)

vaskidmark · « **on:** March 20, 2015, 12:57:36 PM »

Just plain

http://www.buzzfeed.com/rossalynwarren/this-fox-was-rescued-as-a-baby-cub-and-now-he-thinks-he-is-a?bffb&utm_term=4ldqpgp#.taBAlL08j

Foxes do not form packs. The Russians who have been trying for 50+ to domesticate the things are just barely making what could be called progress. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_silver_fox

A 4-month old fox picked up in the park is not a domesticated animal even if it shows some of the same traits the Russians were working towards.

The big question I have is - who will she sue when she gets bitten?

stay safe.

mtnbkr · « **Reply #1 on:** March 20, 2015, 01:26:59 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AtP7au_Q9w

HankB · « **Reply #2 on:** March 20, 2015, 01:31:57 PM »

I wouldn't mind a pet coyote . . . but wild is wild, and no, I'm NOT bringing one into my home.

Still, it would probably be safer than playing with a big cat like a lion or tiger, even if you got it as a cub - just ask Siegfried and Roy about how well wild animals tame down.

Even large primates don't make good pets, especially once they grow up - didn't a woman get badly mauled and mutilated by her friend's pet chimp a few years back?

charby · « **Reply #3 on:** March 20, 2015, 01:33:17 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jofNR_WkoCE

charby · « **Reply #4 on:** March 20, 2015, 01:34:03 PM »

Quote from: HankB on March 20, 2015, 01:31:57 PM

I wouldn't mind a pet coyote . . . but wild is wild, and no, I'm NOT bringing one into my home.

Still, it would probably be safer than playing with a big cat like a lion or tiger, even if you got it as a cub - just ask Siegfried and Roy about how well wild animals tame down.

I'd love to have a bobcat or lynx, but I know better.

freakazoid · « **Reply #5 on:** March 20, 2015, 02:37:02 PM »

What exactly is needed to be meet to consider an animal "domesticated"?

RoadKingLarry · « **Reply #6 on:** March 20, 2015, 02:51:57 PM »

Quote from: freakazoid on March 20, 2015, 02:37:02 PM

What exactly is needed to be meet to consider an animal "domesticated"?

Considering that there have been no new "domesticated" animals in quite a while I'm guessing we don't yet know how long it really takes.

AJ Dual · « **Reply #7 on:** March 20, 2015, 02:53:42 PM »

Quote from: freakazoid on March 20, 2015, 02:37:02 PM

What exactly is needed to be meet to consider an animal "domesticated"?

A couple hundred years of breeding is a good start, perhaps a couple thousand.

However, in the grand scheme of things, I think a lot of the criticism is couched in the general decline of personal responsibility. If someone takes the responsibility, and it "works for them", then I see no harm no foul.

My gut instinct is that despite it's nominally solitary nature, the Canine attributes of a Fox might still make it better and more emotionally bonded pet to humans than your average cat...

lupinus · « **Reply #8 on:** March 20, 2015, 03:23:29 PM »

Hell they've been trying for 5+ thousand years with cats and look how well that's been working...

vaskidmark · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20, 2015, 04:18:36 PM »

http://www.psu.edu/dept/nkbiology/naturetrail/speciespages/redfox.htm

Quote

The red fox is called the "cat-like" canine. Although quite obviously a member of the dog and wolf family of predators with overwhelming anatomical and behavior similarities to other canine species, the red fox's long, very thin canine teeth and its ventrally slit pupils with their well developed tapetum lucidum are extremely obvious cat-like features. These anatomical "cat-like" characteristics are accentuated by the fox's slinking, "mousing" hunting behaviors, and by its use of its sensitive front paws to capture and pin prey. Also, the red fox's sustained, piercing bite to effect a prey kill (as compared to the bite and shake killing method of most other canines) are remarkably cat-like in nature. The eye features unquestionally have evolved because of the nocturnal hunting behaviors of the fox. The teeth, use of paws to catch and pin prey and specific stalking behaviors are evolutionary strategies that are most efficient in the capture of small prey items like mice and voles. The "cat-like' nature of the red fox, then, is most logically due to the similarity of prey items and activity times that many cats and the red foxes share. One other cat-like behavior, though, that is not so easily explained is the lateral threat display used by foxes in aggressive displays (stand sideways, back arched, fur erect etc). This very classic "cat pose" seems out of place in the behavioral display of a canine.

Not quite fish, not quite fowl, and not weird enough to be a platypus.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/168592/domestication

Quote

Domestication, the process of hereditary reorganization of wild animals and plants into domestic and cultivated forms according to the interests of people. In its strictest sense, it refers to the initial stage of human mastery of wild animals and plants. The fundamental distinction of domesticated animals and plants from their wild ancestors is that they are created by human labour to meet specific requirements or whims and are adapted to the conditions of continuous care and solicitude people maintain for them.

Domesticated animals that are no longer cared for by humans and are left to fend for themselves are feral. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_organism

Had to ask, didn't you.

stay safe.

230RN · « **Reply #10 on:** March 20, 2015, 05:29:41 PM »

Quote

What exactly is needed to be met to consider an animal "domesticated"?

Votes straight liberal ticket.

cambeul41 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 20, 2015, 05:44:35 PM »

Th e canid in the article looks to me to be at least half dog.

Hawkmoon · « **Reply #12 on:** March 21, 2015, 08:16:10 AM »

Quote from: freakazoid on March 20, 2015, 02:37:02 PM

What exactly is needed to be meet to consider an animal "domesticated"?

Couple of hundred years?

Firethorn · « **Reply #13 on:** March 21, 2015, 08:20:57 AM »

Quote from: Hawkmoon on March 21, 2015, 08:16:10 AM

Couple of hundred years?

I'd substitute 'generations'. Trees, for example, will take a lot longer to 'domesticate' than wheat.

You can breed for desired characteristics faster in an animal that's ready to breed in a year than one that takes 10.

HankB · « **Reply #14 on:** March 21, 2015, 08:28:39 AM »

From what I've read, the only "big" cat that can be somewhat domesticated is the cheetah. Egyptians were using them to hunt thousands of years ago, and in one of his books, John "Pondoro" Taylor wrote that even captured adult cheetahs can be tamed. (Don't know that I'd want to keep one in the house as a pet, even if I LIKED cats . . . which I don't.)

When I was in Africa, my PH mentioned that he had friends who had a pet leopard. They raised it from a newborn cub, bottle-feeding it at first, and it seemed OK . . . until they had a kid. The cat seemed to accept the child, but then they noticed that the cat seemed to be pretty intensely focused on Junior at times. They didn't like this, so they got rid of the leopard before anything unfortunate happened.

LadySmith · « **Reply #15 on:** March 21, 2015, 08:41:26 AM »

Even I won't treat a wild animal like it's domesticated.
Can't say I won't take 'em into the house, though.

Firethorn · « **Reply #16 on:** March 21, 2015, 08:56:47 AM »

Quote from: HankB on March 21, 2015, 08:28:39 AM

When I was in Africa, my PH mentioned that he had friends who had a pet leopard. They raised it from a newborn cub, bottle-feeding it at first, and it seemed OK . . . until they had a kid. The cat seemed to accept the child, but then they noticed that the cat seemed to be pretty intensely focused on Junior at times. They didn't like this, so they got rid of the leopard before anything unfortunate happened.

There are dogs you don't want around kids either, nor a lot of our 'domestic livestock'. As for the 'intensely focused', well, it's their call, and I agree.

Chuck Dye · « **Reply #17 on:** March 21, 2015, 09:18:00 AM »

I did enjoy their naming the fox Todd: Tod is Scottish for fox.

Friends in Thailand had a pair of leopard cats that were charmers. At only about five pounds each, not much of a threat.

BobR · « **Reply #18 on:** March 21, 2015, 10:49:41 AM »

Quote from: charby on March 20, 2015, 01:34:03 PM

I'd love to have a bobcat or lynx, but I know better.

My wife and I have toyed with the idea of a bobcat a few times. I would have to drive over to Montana to buy one. But common sense always wins the day and we know we have no business with a bobcat.

bob

TommyGunn · « **Reply #19 on:** March 21, 2015, 01:43:37 PM »

Quote from: lupinus on March 20, 2015, 03:23:29 PM

Hell they've been trying for 5+ thousand years with cats and look how well that's been working...

Quote from: AJ Dual on March 20, 2015, 02:53:42 PM

A couple hundred years of breeding is a good start, perhaps a couple thousand.

However, in the grand scheme of things, I think a lot of the criticism is couched in the general decline of personal responsibility. If someone takes the responsibility, and it "works for them", then I see no harm no foul.

My gut instinct is that despite it's nominally solitary nature, the Canine attributes of a Fox might still make it better and more emotionally bonded pet to humans than your average cat...

Cats can make very nice pets. They do "bond" with people but not in the same way that dogs (which make almost as good pets

) do. If all you do is feed the cat and clean out its litter box then no, it will become just as aloof as you are to it. You can't expect cats to behave like a dog does and I think that's why people don't think cats care for people much.

Dogs evolved from hunters who exhibited pack behaviour like wolves do today. Left alone without control even today dogs will roam, and form packs with other similarly uncared fore dogs, and these packs become dangerous. Because of this instinctive behaviour when one gets a dog, he/she becomes the "alpha" critter of it's family/pack. That's why smart dog owners TRAIN their animals -- it's WHY dogs can be trained as well.

Cats (except for female lions) are solitary hunters and thus their behaviour isn't the same. Housecats, while solitary hunters, can do do form social hierarchies with other cats if they're around.
The only real "nitch" the human seems to fill in a cat's world is not the "alpha" member but, the "mother" figure. What do humans do with cats -- feed 'em, provide warmth. Even stroking their fur mimicks a mother cat licking her kitten, which is why animal experts think cats respond to humans stroking them and often purr.
Where else in a cat's natural world do they get food or warmth? The only thing they would know in their evolution is the mother cat.

Not that cats think their owners are cats. I'm pretty sure cats don't perceive humans as "huge two legged felines," but I just think that's how the social roles are arranged between the two most common pet species.

freakazoid · « **Reply #20 on:** March 21, 2015, 01:49:42 PM »

Quote from: Chuck Dye on March 21, 2015, 09:18:00 AM

I did enjoy their naming the fox Todd: Tod is Scottish for fox.

Huh, guess that is why the fox in The Fox and the Hound was named Tod. Interesting.

vaskidmark · « **Reply #21 on:** March 21, 2015, 03:11:36 PM »

Quote

LACKLAND AFB, Texas – An experimental program to train housecats for military working roles will be scrapped, defense officials have told Duffel Blog. The $93 million initiative, which sought to utilize the feline’s stealth, agility and nine lives in espionage and counterespionage operations, was ultimately derailed by an inconspicuous, yet utterly intriguing, empty cardboard box.

“Training dogs, now that’s one thing. Cats are – well, cats are an entirely different animal,” admits lead handler, Master Sgt. Felicia Keys. “Dogs have discipline – you can teach a dog to ignore tennis balls, Frisbees, squeaky toys. A cat is going to do whatever the hell it wants.”

Read more: http://www.duffelblog.com/2015/03/military-working-cat-project-derailed-by-intriguing-box/#ixzz3V35RqCku

stay safe.

BlueStarLizzard · « **Reply #22 on:** March 21, 2015, 07:19:38 PM »

Quote from: TommyGunn on March 21, 2015, 01:43:37 PM

Cats can make very nice pets. They do "bond" with people but not in the same way that dogs (which make almost as good pets ) do. If all you do is feed the cat and clean out its litter box then no, it will become just as aloof as you are to it. You can't expect cats to behave like a dog does and I think that's why people don't think cats care for people much.

Dogs evolved from hunters who exhibited pack behaviour like wolves do today. Left alone without control even today dogs will roam, and form packs with other similarly uncared fore dogs, and these packs become dangerous. Because of this instinctive behaviour when one gets a dog, he/she becomes the "alpha" critter of it's family/pack. That's why smart dog owners TRAIN their animals -- it's WHY dogs can be trained as well.

Cats (except for female lions) are solitary hunters and thus their behaviour isn't the same. Housecats, while solitary hunters, can do do form social hierarchies with other cats if they're around.
The only real "nitch" the human seems to fill in a cat's world is not the "alpha" member but, the "mother" figure. What do humans do with cats -- feed 'em, provide warmth. Even stroking their fur mimicks a mother cat licking her kitten, which is why animal experts think cats respond to humans stroking them and often purr.
Where else in a cat's natural world do they get food or warmth? The only thing they would know in their evolution is the mother cat.

Not that cats think their owners are cats. I'm pretty sure cats don't perceive humans as "huge two legged felines," but I just think that's how the social roles are arranged between the two most common pet species.

Dad read a book once that said that cats see their owners as mothers.
After that he was the "bald headed cat momma".

Some cats don't bond, no matter what you do. I've seen multiple cats from a single family that illustrate this quiet nicely. One cat will be as sweet as you could want. The other will be devil incarnate, wanting to kill you.
Nice calico cats, for example, are rare. I've met one that wasn't insane and vicious.

I don't have a huge issue with people who make "pets" of wild animals, as long as they are aware of what they are doing and they didn't purchase the animal.

bedlamite · « **Reply #23 on:** March 21, 2015, 07:27:35 PM »

Quote from: charby on March 20, 2015, 01:34:03 PM

I'd love to have a bobcat or lynx, but I know better.

lee n. field · « **Reply #24 on:** March 21, 2015, 07:56:01 PM »

Quote from: lupinus on March 20, 2015, 03:23:29 PM

Hell they've been trying for 5+ thousand years with cats and look how well that's been working...

little furry sociopaths

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Author Topic: Let's take a wild animal into the house and treat it like it's domesticated (Read 6099 times)